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Thoughts on Organized Religion

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posted on Jan, 1 2015 @ 04:15 PM
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a reply to: Ignatian

I know I'm going to regret asking, but in what way is there "no such thing as an atheist"?




posted on Jan, 1 2015 @ 04:41 PM
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It can be answered in one of many ways. I would enjoy answering your question, but I would need more information. My answer depends on your worldview, your beliefs, your mood, where you are on your path, and many other things. I also wouldn't want to sound flippant or hurried as I am currently trying to throw together a gumbo.

On another side, it's very difficult, if not impossible to prove a negative. Maybe it would be easiest if you proved to me there IS such a thing as an atheist. I'm all ears., or eyeballs as it is.

a reply to: iterationzero


edit on 1-1-2015 by Ignatian because: Grammar



posted on Jan, 1 2015 @ 06:27 PM
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originally posted by: Ignatian
Of course I know there is no "Atheist Doctrine", because there is no such thing as an atheist. It's just a word. An excuse.

a reply to: flyingfish



I don't follow.. How can atheist cause deaths if they don't exist?



posted on Jan, 1 2015 @ 07:00 PM
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Someone who is a minimalist, an individualist, a hedonist and a relativist, such as a communist, must deny God, it's not in the recipe. So, they call themselves atheists. That's their excuse. Then they attempt to shut up the opposition, in the case of communists, they kill them. Here, at ATS, they try and kill them in other ways.

My faith tradition teaches that God created us to know Him, love Him, and serve Him. Why? So that we can be happy. Why? So we can live our lives LIKE Him, becoming Christs on earth, so we can live an eternal life WITH Him, after we die. And that plan is for ALL of us.

Because someone doesn't know God, simply means, well, just that. They don't know God. So, they call themselves atheists. But that doesn't negate the existence of God.

They think 2+2=5. I think 2+2=4. They can piss and moan all they want, 2+2 will always equal 4. It's that simple.

a reply to: flyingfish



posted on Jan, 1 2015 @ 08:41 PM
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a reply to: M4ngo


The part about it that I cannot grasp or come to terms with is...

Yes, this is among the philosophical contradictions I referred to in my post.

Theodicy is the other. In the words of Epicurus:

If God is good, whence cometh evil?

Is it He unable to prevent it? Then He is not omnipotent.

Is He unwilling? Then He is malevolent.

Is he both unwilling and unable? Then He is not God.



posted on Jan, 1 2015 @ 09:01 PM
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a reply to: Ignatian

An atheist is just a person who doesn't believe in gods.

I love the way you have to throw together four different words to make up for the one you don't want to admit the existence of:


a minimalist, an individualist, a hedonist and a relativist

I'm not sure what you think is wrong with minimalism, which is, as far as I know, an aesthetic position taken with regard to things like music and architecture.

As for individualism, isn't Christianity all about saving individual souls? To be a Christian, a person is enjoined to leave his family, abandon the society he has known and follow Jesus. A Christian is supposed to testify on behalf of God, and must expect to earn the displeasure of society by doing so. That is the very definition of individualism: a personal decision that excludes others.

Hedonism is, of course, the perennial bugbear of hung-up stick-in-the-muds who are too uptight to have any fun and can't stand to see others enjoying themselves. I know any number of religious hedonists, but I will give you this one.

And — ah — relativism. Clearly you don't mean a belief in the theories of Albert Einstein, so presumably you mean moral relativism. Well, my friend, your God-given ability to judge others' minds without meeting or speaking to them must be malfunctioning, because I am an atheist but my moral and ethical standards are firmly in place, thanks very much. I may not live up to them all the time, but I bet you don't live up to yours, either. My ethical values are based on reason and biological instinct, not superstition. Are you so evil that you need an omnipotent God and the threat of eternal hellfire to stop you from doing wrong? Atheists don't, you know.

There are many ways in which to participate in a debate of this kind. To make prejudicial claims based not on what is real but on what you think ought to be real, and then insult everybody whose views are not the same as yours, is one of the worst. Not only is it stupid (because it gets people's backs up and makes them more inclined to reject what you have to say), it is also vicious.

Jesus said 'love your neighbour', not 'call your neighbour names'. And when you accuse innocent atheists of the atrocities of Nazism and Communism, you bear false witness against your neighbour. By Biblical standards, I'd say you were a good candidate for a stoning.


edit on 1/1/15 by Astyanax because: of born-again jerkiness and creepiness.



posted on Jan, 1 2015 @ 09:38 PM
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If you were an "atheist", why do you spend so much time confronting theists to try and reinforce your minority views? Because we're complete strangers, it makes me wonder who you're REALLY confronting. Hmm

I'll define my terms for you.
Relativist: There is no objective truth, only subjective. I have mine, you have yours. In my world, 2+2=5, cuz I said so.
Hedonist: If it feels good, do it. Cuz I said so.
Individualist: What's mine is mine, it's all about me. Why? Cuz I said so.
Minimalist: What is the absolute least that I have to do, in order to get what I got coming to me?

Ah, the fruits of an "atheist", with the obligatory anger. Why are "atheists" always so angry? The first reaction to Truth, is anger.

So, by your definition, you're simply a non-believer? Or do you deny the existence of a higher being? There's a difference, ya know *wink*.

Peace friend, I speak globally, metaphorically speaking, don't take it personal. I don't know you from Adam.

Admonishing a sinner, your neighbor, is loving him. It's a work of mercy. Jesus tells us to do that. (Easy, I don't mean you personally)

a reply to: Astyanax


edit on 1-1-2015 by Ignatian because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 1 2015 @ 09:55 PM
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a reply to: Ignatian


If you were an "atheist", why do you spend so much time confronting theists to try and reinforce your minority views?


I don't know you from Adam.

So how do you know how much time I spend 'confronting theists to try and reinforce my minority views'?


Relativist: There is no objective truth, only subjective.

If this were a definition of atheism, no scientist — certainly no physicist, chemist or biologist — could possibly be an atheist.


In my world, 2+2=5, cuz I said so.

No mathematicians either, then.


Hedonist: If it feels good, do it.

I know what a hedonist is. As I said, you can have this one.


What's mine is mine, it's all about me.

That is not individualism, that is narcissism. Back to the dictionary for you!


Minimalist: What is the absolute least that I have to do, in order to get what I got coming to me?

No, you made that up. Here's the real definition.


Ah, the fruits of an "atheist", with the obligatory anger. Why are "atheists" always so angry? The first reaction to Truth, is anger.

Speaking in a general sort of way: when I see self-satisfied, oily hypocrites accusing others of the crimes of which they themselves are guilty, it makes me angry.


edit on 1/1/15 by Astyanax because: people don't get a free pass just because they think they're better than the rest of us.



posted on Jan, 2 2015 @ 12:08 AM
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a reply to: Ignatian





Someone who is a minimalist, an individualist, a hedonist and a relativist, such as a communist, must deny God, it's not in the recipe. So, they call themselves atheists. That's their excuse. Then they attempt to shut up the opposition, in the case of communists, they kill them. Here, at ATS, they try and kill them in other ways.

Slow your roll! "communist?" You don't even know what my beliefs are. Your relying on the stereotypes that you have been taught and the elusion of threats to your way of life that your dogmatic propaganda keeps blinding you with. Your not even aware that my beliefs include defending your right to wallow in ignorance. Does that sound "communist" to you? Learning and understanding other ways of thinking does not require that you adopt those other ways or "kill them in other ways."



My faith tradition teaches that God created us to know Him, love Him, and serve Him. Why? So that we can be happy. Why? So we can live our lives LIKE Him, becoming Christs on earth, so we can live an eternal life WITH Him, after we die. And that plan is for ALL of us.

First off, your are not being asked to proselytize, but rather to understand and to respect. I'm not asking you to adopt my thought processes, but rather to understand. I'm not oblivious to your beliefs, in fact I was raised Christian, that's why I'm agnostic. Many of the atheists here who engage in these discussions are far from oblivious to religious beliefs and in many cases, they know much more about religion than the believers do. And in many cases, like me, they used to be believers themselves. So then, no, don't preach to me.



Because someone doesn't know God, simply means, well, just that. They don't know God. So, they call themselves atheists. But that doesn't negate the existence of God.

The existence of God IMO is possible, being agnostic doesn't negate the existence of God. The question of the existence God or Gods cannot be claimed, such a question operates in a vacuum of evidence.



They think 2+2=5. I think 2+2=4. They can piss and moan all they want, 2+2 will always equal 4. It's that simple.


It is fortunate for you that mathematics is merely an intellectual discipline rather than a religion. Do you even know what point you are trying to make? Cause I don't..



posted on Jan, 2 2015 @ 12:09 AM
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Atheists continue to play the same game that all theists do just with a different rule set and some new pictures. The worship of false ideas permeates most humans through their misconceptions about the way things are and the way things were. Couple that with mainstream misinterpretations of gnostic mythological writings and you have the religious situation we have today. All the common atheist does is vehemently disapprove of Christianity, but their reasons for disbelief are rooted in the same deep held belief

Let the giant chess game of ignoring our basic psychology begin



posted on Jan, 2 2015 @ 06:52 AM
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a reply to: xkillbox5000x


Atheists continue to play the same game that all theists do just with a different rule set and some new pictures.

Can you give some examples? What, for example, does an atheist miracle look like? What about an atheist God?



posted on Jan, 2 2015 @ 06:54 PM
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a reply to: Ignatian


It can be answered in one of many ways. I would enjoy answering your question, but I would need more information. My answer depends on your worldview, your beliefs, your mood, where you are on your path, and many other things. I also wouldn't want to sound flippant or hurried as I am currently trying to throw together a gumbo.

No offense, but your answer shouldn't involve my worldview, beliefs, mood, location on a path, or any other thing relating to me. You stated, quite clearly, that there's no such thing as an atheist. Are you backing off of that assertion?


On another side, it's very difficult, if not impossible to prove a negative. Maybe it would be easiest if you proved to me there IS such a thing as an atheist. I'm all ears., or eyeballs as it is.

I'm not the one making claims, friend. An atheist is simply defined as one who lacks belief in deities.

To put it simply, but tritely, you're almost as much of an atheist as I am... I just believe in one less god than you apparently do.



posted on Jan, 3 2015 @ 04:44 AM
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I can be a relativist.
I can be an individualist.
I can be a hedonist.
I can be minimalist.
And so can you, it's human nature.
But, we don't have to be. It's our choice, our free will.

Every lie is alien to the Truth.
Who is the liar?
Whoever denies that Jesus is The Christ.
Whoever denies The Father and The Son,
...this is the Antichrist.




a reply to: Astyanaxp


edit on 3-1-2015 by Ignatian because: Where did I ever say I was better than you? I would never say that



posted on Jan, 3 2015 @ 10:33 PM
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a reply to: Ignatian


t's our choice, our free will.

Highly debatable. Can you prove the existence of this free will of yours?


Whoever denies that Jesus is The Christ.
Whoever denies The Father and The Son,
...this is the Antichrist.

Even the Bible doesn't say that. You made it up.



posted on Jan, 3 2015 @ 10:47 PM
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originally posted by: ausername
All are inherently corruptible, flawed, and deceptive. Organized religions are the creations of mankind. Used to justify oppressive and even evil acts toward other humans. To use fear in one form or another to trap souls into a misguided faith.



You are born into this world with everything you will ever need to guide you through this life and into the next. If you can avoid evil influences, and deceptions meant to lead you away from the only faith you should have.



Good luck.





I believe in me. Not the different religeous books and differences in them. They only to separate peoples not bring together. A separated force is a weak one. A force that is together is one to be roconed with. Is why the different religions , to separate you and keep U confused. An ignorant society is one that is easily controlled. HAPPY NEW YEAR, you sorry lemmings.



posted on Jan, 4 2015 @ 06:55 AM
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1 John 2:22

"Who is the liar? Whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Whoever denies The Father. and The son, this is the antiChrist.

All of us can be the antiChrist. All of us can display atheistic works. But, it's not in our nature, not why we were created. It is by the power of God's grace raining down upon us, that can bring us out of darkness, and into the light....Through Faith. We need to throw away our umbrellas, and be bathed in God's grace. Singing in the rain!

You'd like me to prove to you that we all inherently have a free will? I do make a broad assumption that you know what I mean by free will. It's such a basic tenet of being human, I've just taken it for granted. I will allow the free will of my mind to wander for awhile, to try and give you a simple answer. No, maybe I won't. It will be a long, complex answer. Nah, changed my mind, I'll make it short. Really, I will. It depends. It depends on me. I'll decide. "I will". God gave us free will. It was a necessary risk in creating beings that are capable of love...and of not loving. It's the "downside" of being human. It's also what makes us human.

Angels are the only other creature created with free will. We all know of one fallen angel, who "chose" the dark side. The darkness. He chose not to love God.

Refresh my addled memory. Isn't Astyanax the kid who got tossed over the wall in The Illiad? And it had something to do with sacking Troy? I can't remember what I had for lunch yesterday, and it's been 30+ years since I had to read that in school. Glad they made me read it though, good stuff.

a reply to: Astyanax


edit on 4-1-2015 by Ignatian because: Off topic question

edit on 4-1-2015 by Ignatian because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 4 2015 @ 07:53 AM
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a reply to: Ignatian


1 John 2:22

Fair enough. Brain-melting twaddle, of course, but fair enough.


It depends on me. I'll decide. "I will". God gave us free will.

Maybe you should have tried the long answer. I'm afraid that one won't wash.

Free will may seem intuitively obvious, but closer inspection of the question shows that it is almost certainly an illusion. Completely irrational behaviour, if such a thing exists, may be an expression of free will. No meaningful behaviour is. And as Nietzsche pointed out, nobody wills thoughts into their own heads; thoughts come unbidden. Rousseau's famous formula, cogito, ergo sum, is nonsense.


Isn't Astyanax the kid who got tossed over the wall in The Illiad?

His real name was Scamandrius, but yes. He was the son of Hector.



posted on Jan, 4 2015 @ 08:14 AM
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"I think" (lol) that may have been Descartes, but I see your point, although I disagree.

I am an artist. My talent is from God, but I move the pencil. If I don't like it, I crumple it up and throw it away. I am the creator. I share in creation. I draw, therefore I exist.

a reply to: Astyanax



posted on Jan, 4 2015 @ 09:39 AM
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a reply to: Ignatian

Yep, Descartes it is. I always get their names mixed up.


I am an artist. My talent is from God, but I move the pencil.

I am a writer. When I sit down to write, I recognize that my control over what emerges from my (metaphorical) pen is limited. I can make creative decisions, but I have no command over the sources of my inspiration and can only exercise my judgement over whatever they deign to provide. This extends even to matters of literary structure and technique. I once wrote a story in which the climactic scene is foreshadowed earlier in the narrative by another incident that involves the same themes and motifs as the climax in a comic way, but points at what is to come. At the time, I didn't realize what I was doing. I only noticed it when re-reading the finished story.

So, then, where do my ideas come from? God? Then where is my free will? I must work with the range of choices He presents me with. How free is that — given all the other constraints that dictate what I can write? When the wall beneath which I am standing begins to collapse, is my decision to run away rather than remain standing under it really a choice at all? What kind of free will is that? I suppose I can decide in which direction to run — but run I must.

Or do my ideas come from my own unconscious mind? If so, they are the result of the particular character and shape of my mind (which has been formed by my personal history acting upon my cultural and genetic inheritance) and the stimulus of the moment. Over which of these factors do I exercise any control? In what sense is my will free?



posted on Jan, 4 2015 @ 09:59 AM
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Ah, a writer, I should have guessed. You folks think on a different plane, I don't know how one can simply come to a conclusion of what to write, given the multitude of ideas that swirl around your mind. The metaphorical, which are the black and white words on the page, must be so woefully inadequate in describing the actual thoughts. It's definitely an art an a science.

Our preconceived notions, our thoughts, ideas, our fantasies, who really knows their ultimate background origins, what brings them to our mind? I choose to believe they are inspired by The Holy Spirit, based on real life experiences, that were also instigated by God.

But, it's Astyanax, at the end of the day, after the wrestling match, who ultimately decides what gets put on the page. You decide, nobody else.

But God knows what you will decide, he may not agree, but the choice is yours.

a reply to: Astyanax




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