Public Education vs. Ignorant Parents

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14

originally posted by: beezzer

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14

I would bet that the majority of home schoolers are not super educated people or evidence based folks, but instead fundamentalists or idealogues.

Source, or your own biased opinion?

Based on my experiences with people in my family who home school AND the fact that I am an education professional. If you are not, I guarantee you have interacted with less education issues, families, students, etc than I have.

I also said most, because I do know of highly educated home schoolers and brilliant home schooled kids.

Your opinion only, then.

Kay.

a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

You are right though. To home school properly requires a lot more effort than most can muster. You also have to make efforts to supplement things outside the home. Also the bias problem is huge. It's very difficult for the average person to teach without just giving one sided views.

The best teaches I had definitely had a viewpoint. Objectivity is impossible. What made them so great is that they would include the opposing viewpoint as well.

originally posted by: tavi45
a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

The best example I've seen of home schooling was a mother and grandmother with English backgrounds. They use tutoring services and resources from libraries and the Internet to supplement their weak points such as in math. They also participate in a group with other gone schoolers where they help each other out by sharing resources and advice.

It's not easy but raising kids shouldn't be easy.

I get that some people pull it off to a degree.

However, i have three college degrees, including one in education with state certification. I strongly believe that with the amount of skills and information someone needs for this modern world, most if not all people simply are not equipped to teach all subjects to one child over 13-14 years.

This also goes back to a disrespect for education as a profession. There is a lot of pedagogy, psychology, and content expertise you need to have to teach ONE subject well. A lot of home schoolers are assuming that it's NOT a real profession that doesn't require such training, magically so because it is their kid. Do you see the point I am making here? What qualifies many of these parents to conduct a massive education exercise over many years?

Even if they are able to pull it off children need intellectual input from a wide range of sources, including ideas that their families do not agree with. Those kids should know those theories. I believe that home schooling is not enough diversity of input.

Similarly, a home schooled micro community has a huge selection bias, and even while providing some socialization measures for children will not truly give them the cross section of diversity that a public school or even a large secular private school will give, although that one can bring in monetary selection biases.

A very well educated one.

Most home schoolers I've talked to fight evidence based ideas and threats to their family or political beliefs.

If the shoe fits.

So yes, this is a hypothesis on my part, based on being a professional educator. What that means is that it's probably a better opinion than some random person that has no expertise in education nor real experience.

We could make a study out of it, provided we had the funding and time.

originally posted by: beezzer

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14

originally posted by: beezzer

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14

I would bet that the majority of home schoolers are not super educated people or evidence based folks, but instead fundamentalists or idealogues.

Source, or your own biased opinion?

Based on my experiences with people in my family who home school AND the fact that I am an education professional. If you are not, I guarantee you have interacted with less education issues, families, students, etc than I have.

I also said most, because I do know of highly educated home schoolers and brilliant home schooled kids.

Your opinion only, then.

Kay.

a reply to: vexati0n

They are also the only place we as a society have a foothold to unteach some truly horrific things kids are taught at home

The education system that follows the Tavistock policies or your policies? Which do you think is the System used now?



mindcontrolfordummies.50megs.com...

Dr. John Coleman, former intelligence officer with Britain's MI6 and author of Conspirators Hierarchy, The Committee of 300, was one of the first writers to bring the world's attention to the existence of the pivotal role that Tavistock plays in shaping political, social, educational, and economic 'opinions', especially in the United States.

" Popular culture is engineered to brainwash each of us from cradle to grave. Trends and megatrends are manufactured, engineered by corporations.
Society evolves slowly toward "social efficiency" all by itself; society under stress, however, evolves much faster! Thus the deliberate creation of crisis is an important tool of evolutionary socialists. Does that help you understand the global drama a little better, or well-publicized doomsday scenarios?"

originally posted by: tavi45
a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

You are right though. To home school properly requires a lot more effort than most can muster. You also have to make efforts to supplement things outside the home. Also the bias problem is huge. It's very difficult for the average person to teach without just giving one sided views.

The best teaches I had definitely had a viewpoint. Objectivity is impossible. What made them so great is that they would include the opposing viewpoint as well.

Exactly, teachers and scientists are biased too. So this brings up a key point, we need to have diversity and range of teachers and input, such that we can hear a large variety of ideas and points.

However, we shouldn't make the mistake of pretending that a teacher who actually has not only studied history for a long time but also the psychological and pedagogical methods of teaching various students and personality types is no more qualified as an individual than some parent or lay person. Even though they are still biased, the two views and opinions are not the same. And arguably, someone who has dedicated their life to a subject has a higher probability of knowing the evidence, pros and cons for various ideas, and so on.

And yes, home schooling a child through their entire education is not only a bigger job than most people can handle but also most people just don't have the requisite knowledge. Teaching is a profession with actual training, not something just random people get to decide they can do.

a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

I agree. Like I said I've only seen one family pull it off so far. My point in bringing it up is that if you hate public schools so much you aren't forced to go. If public schooling is your only option then that means there are many other issues at play besides just education. The public schools are broken but in my experience the ones who complain the most also are the ones who expect society to raise their kids for them.

These same people then hire me to try and fix it and in many cases I can't because the parents won't do a single thing to get their children to work. No one can force your child to do something except the parents so if the parents don't do anything except complain and blame the child continues to fail.

Long story short. Teachers can teach, students have to do the learning. Education is not a one way street.

a reply to: beezzer

Isn't 99% of this site opinions?

The thing is dude, in a larger secular school, whether private or public, there is going to be much more opportunity to debate these ideas than I bet in a church or most families. Most families aren't even educated enough on most topics TO DEBATE them, let alone educate their kids on them.

And in secular schools at least kids are being taught to base for example views on the scientific method, not the Bible or Koran or something. In history class now days students have to learn uncomfortable truths about American history or foreign policy, bursting the often naive or ignorant views given by the media or families. I mean, even the past month in one state some community group or politician was trying to get the school system to take out any historical information (such as the disenfranchisement of the Native Americans or American mistakes abroad) that would degrade US nationalism. So again, a lot of people that don't like secular evidence based education seem to not like it because those VERY people have a bunch of non-evidence based views on reality, and they don't want kids nor other people to challenge those.

originally posted by: TheConstruKctionofLight
a reply to: vexati0n

And let’s be honest with ourselves

do not understand science, they refuse to vaccinate their kids,

Ok so you do not have your own agenda in this? How honest are you? Plenty of article about the dangers of vaccinations out there. Or how about fluoridation of water?

and those kids grow up unprepared to deal with a world that behaves according to natural laws

climate change to be questioned in schools

So is allowing theories to be debated going against your "natural law"

Sounds like you had good intentions with your op but your pet beliefs creeped in.

originally posted by: tavi45
a reply to: beezzer

Isn't 99% of this site opinions?

Yes, but most people don't try to pass them off as fact.

a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

Very very good point. This 7th grade Jewish girl I teach was absolutely blown away by the history of civil rights and eyelets rights. Jim Crow and triangle shirtwaist factory alone had her pretty shocked. She lives in a total ivory tower. She's never seen anything except happiness and prosperity in her whole life.

originally posted by: tavi45
a reply to: beezzer

Isn't 99% of this site opinions?

You're right.

And to pass off opinion as fact is dishonest.

But I suppose that's what the really smart people can do.

I just eat crayons and raise my children poorly.

a reply to: vexati0n

because too many of them teach their kids to hate people who are different, to feel superior to others, to harbor prejudices, to believe false history and ignorant nationalism, to be afraid of (rather than engaged in) government

So instead you teach them that everyone is special no hard work needed, no one fails, all are entitled to entitlements. Everyone is the same even if it means slowing down the bright for the mediocraty. I get it now...no hang on thats what you do have now, You produce consumers and cannon fodder.

a reply to: beezzer

I think it is more likely that intelligent people would care about their child's education and therefore take a hand in making sure they are educated properly. Now if I were a good globalist citizen I guess I would just trust the statists to teach them all they need to know by sending them to the public indoctrination center.

a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

Fine if all that was taught was the subjects, but it's not.

And don't pull the highly trained educational professional card on me. I have also been a "highly trained educational professional" in my time, too.

It mostly consists of sticking to the text book, and when you are given Howard Zinn's "A People's History" that is hardly a straight view of things, but it's the text book.

a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

If most families aren't EDUCATED enough ... someone, like you, ain't doing his or her job. Eh?

If the schools exist to educate, and most people aren't educated enough to teach their own kids the basics, then the schools must be failures.

a reply to: funkadeliaaaa

which is nothing to do with cultivation of knowledge and everythingto do with the sublimate of societal ideals and values of the socio-political powers

The OP probably also adheres to the idea that the trillions spent ( embezzled and spent ) on the "too big to fail banks" somehow eradicated poverty in the world

a reply to: Metallicus

I agree, completely.

Since I've taught in the public school system, I am well aware of what is lacking since I wasn't schooled in America.

I want to prepare my child for the future. Not just insure that he conforms well.

I'm trying to prepare a leader, not a follower.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

If most families aren't EDUCATED enough ... someone, like you, ain't doing his or her job. Eh?

If the schools exist to educate, and most people aren't educated enough to teach their own kids the basics, then the schools must be failures.

Nope, that would show a misunderstanding of the data and causes of education challenges.

Second, again, no parent can know all of the information necessary for a k-12 education. Even if they are Einstein. This is an important point. Teaching is a REAL profession, with all kinds of various knowledge areas. A parent does not magically download that information from the universe once they have a child.

to the OP

Is it ok if I teach my kids that the Iraq war was all about WMDs (hehe) or that Qaddafi was a dictator and that it wasnt about the fact that they didnt have a Rothschilds controlled Central Bank in Libya?