Public Education vs. Ignorant Parents

a reply to: Cuervo

Education is a big word. Yeah, its easy to speak it as if from a place of knowing, yet really when you deconstruct what that word actually means, you find it connotes many things depending in the context or field of knowledge it is being applied to. For example music education, what do we mean by that? Is it teaching someone to play an instrument or is it simply flicking on the radio ad hearing whats out there??? Music is about listening anyway, right? So how can we discriminate against one form of education vs another without coming up against the fact that education is too multifasceted to adequately define in some cases without going against the very intention of the what education is supposed to do in thr forst place which decrease ignorance and not to instead increase ignorance, which is exaclty what is happening when we attempt to discriminate one for of education against another.
So to claim the state does a better job at education than parents isn't a statement about the passing on of knowledge, whatsoever, its a statement about the shaping or programming of the behaviour of individuals on an industrial scale, which is nothing to do with cultivation of knowledge and everythingto do with the sublimate of societal ideals and values of the socio-political powers that be who in this day and age dont sem to be very compassionate or loving, so what kind of values are you seriously suggesting we teach our kids?
This is exactly what you and the OP are suggesting by trying to belittle parenting as inferior to what the state can provide. No. Parents teach many things and love them or hate them they provide a much more humane education than an institution can provide.

In the future when the generation of clones you are advocating grows up, what kind of parents will they be? Humane or not so much? I suspect not so much.... Is that what you really want? Nobody is perfect, but at least the majority are not yet so completely cut and paste clones of what our institutionalised overlords wish us to become... The kind that many are already becoming..

originally posted by: funkadeliaaaa
a reply to: Cuervo
This is exactly what you and the OP are suggesting by trying to belittle parenting as inferior to what the state can provide. No. Parents teach many things and love them or hate them they provide a much more humane education than an institution can provide.

Nobody said that. Education as in "teaching facts" is important enough to keep it distinct from parenting.

If a parent is afraid of their children learning facts, that parent is the problem; not the facts. I say this as a parent. There are some things that are questionable to me in my daughter's school but I stay active in her education and I can supplement anything she learns with my (and her mother's) discernment.

The very last thing I fear my daughter getting from school is an evidence-based education.

a reply to: Cuervo

Do you honestly believe that the public school system is teaching nothing but "facts"?

originally posted by: vexati0n

originally posted by: Metallicus

it is not the school system’s intention to “brainwash” their child

The problem with your entire premise is that there IS an agenda to 'brainwash' the public and it starts in the schools with the 'common core' agenda. You are making the assumption that parents are unaware of the true agenda in our schools when I think it is you that are naive to the facts.

...globally unified world of the future, and serves no purpose at all but to prolong the ancient and anachronistic traditions of ignorant Luddites in a world where they do not belong...

You did an excellent job of highlighting your arrogance and describing your position. I guess I don't want a future that I can't belong to though I object to your ad hominem labeling of those of us that can't be a part of your globalist agenda. We are simply fighting for our very survival and that of our nation against you and your NWO controllers.

Do you know who gave me the best education on earth?

My dog (part wolf breed)... R.I.P.

She have birth to many puppies at least 40.

The state tried and failed to take that education away from me. I dont buy propoganda, i can smell their bull# it from miles away, years in advance... There is less humanity in the state than my wolf breed dog, and thats who you want educating our society????¿¿¿¿¿¿¿???¿?¿¿????¿
?¿??l??l?¿??????????!!¿??

For those who believe the school system is about "teaching facts" explain why here in the uk the 5 to 10 year olds have to move from room to room on an hourly basis, and during those movements all talking is banned and they must walk with one hand on the shoulder of the person in front!!!

What "fact" do you think that is teaching them?

a reply to: Cuervo

Okay, so as a parent you find it perfectly acceptable to send your daughter to an institution you have little knowledge or awareness about until she is at the age you decide to send her there? Really? An institution full of strangers teaching a curriculum based on government approved facts about government approved topics.

Hmm?

The very last thing I fear my daughter getting from school is an evidence-based education.

Evidence based education? Is that the only educational value you wish to pass on to your daughter? Im afraid if that is so you are going to end up with a daughter with a very impoverished mind, like the rest of her clones. What about values based education? Or experience based education?

What about things that can only be taught by the parents?
Surely we are setting a very dangerous precedant by encouraging the state to be the sole bearers of responsibility for the education of our youth. If you disengage parents from education a little, arent you worried it may be disengaging parents entirely?

originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: Cuervo

Do you honestly believe that the public school system is teaching nothing but "facts"?

Not at all and that is what bothers me. Like I said, I find things in her school that are questionable but the curriculum isn't one of them (usually).

a reply to: vexati0n

Except for the fact that so-called experts are as fallible as anyone else. Just because a person has an alphabet after their name doesn't automatically make them an "expert." In fact, it doesn't make them anything until they prove themselves in the real, not the theoretical.

My husband is an expert, acknowledged by people who have alphabets after their names and sitting on professional committees, invited there by people who have alphabets after their names. He's a lowly dual bachelor degree with experience, but he is respected and his opinion is sought after in his field.

I see far too many people these days who accept that a person as an expert simply because they point at their degrees and declare it to be so.

For example, much of common core was designed by people who had little to no direct experience with education and educating.

a reply to: ketsuko

much of common core was designed by people who had little to no direct experience with education and educating

Hence modern educational standards (at a wholistic level) are below that of a household pet.

Great article summing up what's wrong with modern education. It's really not the teachers fault. It's the parents and politicians. The teachers mostly have their hands tied. Some teachers are terrible though but much like other public organizations like the police the system discourages the good ones and encourages and protects the bad ones.

www.geopolitics.us...

originally posted by: tavi45
Great article summing up what's wrong with modern education. It's really not the teachers fault. It's the parents and politicians. The teachers mostly have their hands tied. Some teachers are terrible though but much like other public organizations like the police the system discourages the good ones and encourages and protects the bad ones.

www.geopolitics.us...

Rubbish.

The fault lies at the sources.

The so called educators have a million excuses for their millions of failures.

What are the excuses for the parents' educations?

This has been going on for decades with the same old excuses and the same old failures.

All costing billions of wasted taxpayer money.

Fail.

Rubbish.

The schlock educators are the problem.

Always blaming the victims.

originally posted by: VoidHawk
For those who believe the school system is about "teaching facts" explain why here in the uk the 5 to 10 year olds have to move from room to room on an hourly basis, and during those movements all talking is banned and they must walk with one hand on the shoulder of the person in front!!!

What "fact" do you think that is teaching them?

Um, as a former teacher, that's called classroom management, and simply a function of how to have orderly transitions for hundreds of children... It all makes sense. Try NOT having classroom management and see how chaotic the class and school will be. As it often is.

Hourly basis? That's based on facts and scientific evidence that most people, especially children, have an attention span of about 50 minutes.

originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: vexati0n

I home school my son because I strongly disagree with the agenda-driven indoctrination that passes itself off in public schools.

Obviously, you support the agenda-driven indoctrination.

Good luck with that.

The problem is, too often people that just said what you did mean by "indoctrination" schools providing secular ideas, data, evidence, research, and so on respecting all cultures, teaching that ideas and beliefs should be based on evidence, not opinion, that we live in a diverse society with more than just one religion, etc. Teaching raw history rather than whitewashed history. If that is indoctrination then it's a good thing.

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14

originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: vexati0n

I home school my son because I strongly disagree with the agenda-driven indoctrination that passes itself off in public schools.

Obviously, you support the agenda-driven indoctrination.

Good luck with that.

The problem is, too often people that just said what you did mean by "indoctrination" schools providing secular ideas, data, evidence, research, and so on respecting all cultures, teaching that ideas and beliefs should be based on evidence, not opinion, that we live in a diverse society with more than just one religion, etc. Teaching raw history rather than whitewashed history. If that is indoctrination then it's a good thing.

Now you are whitewashing indoctrination.

Bravo for you.

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14

originally posted by: VoidHawk
For those who believe the school system is about "teaching facts" explain why here in the uk the 5 to 10 year olds have to move from room to room on an hourly basis, and during those movements all talking is banned and they must walk with one hand on the shoulder of the person in front!!!

What "fact" do you think that is teaching them?

Um, as a former teacher, that's called classroom management, and simply a function of how to have orderly transitions for hundreds of children... It all makes sense. Try NOT having classroom management and see how chaotic the class and school will be. As it often is.

Hourly basis? That's based on facts and scientific evidence that most people, especially children, have an attention span of about 50 minutes.

Well, how on earth did they ever manage before?
When I was at school, and when my children were at school there was no need to "manage" the movements, why is it suddenly so necessary now? Because its all part of the agenda to produce compliant unquestioning workers.

As for the attention span, well that just says it all, school is so boring they cant manage more than 50 minutes?

Give a child something he/she is interested in and you cant get them away from it!
I watched my grandchild play a play station game (he was three), and because he had a need to know he learnt to read all the charactors names and how to manage the money he earned, and as I said to his mother, just imagine if they had designed that game for the purpose of teaching! Had he been allowed he'd have been on that game from the moment he woke to bedtime, there was no 50 minute attention span involved!

Schools should now be obsolete, they are not needed anymore. With computers in every home every child can have their own personal unbiased tutor. Programs could easily be written that enable children to learn through play, there is no need to lock them up in school for half the day where its so borring they cant concentrate for more than "50 minutes"

a reply to: xuenchen

I've never seen you show so much emotion. This issue hit a little close to home?

I'm cleaning up the school systems messes on a daily basis. It's not the teachers half so much as it's the system. There are bad teachers out there. Tons of them. I had a few fantastic teachers growing up and they couldn't do anything for a lot of students.

What happened to personal responsibility? Isn't that the Republican motto? If you think the education system sucks then home school your kids. Better to leave the raising of your kids to others and complain about the results right? Personal responsibility at work

a reply to: VoidHawk

Khan Academy is doing exactly that. Sadly it's not quite there yet. Also I have yet to meet a kid with that kind of drive for knowledge except the ones that do fine in school anyways.

Bottom line is it's a monumental problem with a lot of inertia behind it for doing nothing to fix it.

a reply to: tavi45

Republican motto? I thought this was a non-partisan issue.



But now that you mention it.....

Dimes to donuts your worst system clean up situations are in heavy Democrat voting pockets.

Where are the biggest failures at?



Rubbish.

originally posted by: Cuervo

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14
In a democracy, it isn't really acceptable to simply allow ignorance to be taught, because ignorant people affect the democracy and others throughout their lives.

Wow... there's a whole lot of truth in that statement. What a perfect way to put it.

Thanks man.

You know, a functioning society and democracy requires citizens who are well rounded, well educated, and able to base views on evidence and knowledge, not ignorance, ideology, or fundamentalism.

Everyone is welcome to their own opinions, they are not welcome to their own facts. If the vast majority of scientific evidence says that the environment is being destroyed and hence it's responsible for that to be taught and for society to do something about it, I don't really have much patience for anybody, whether that be parents or politicians, saying "oh this is a liberal conspiracy and all part of the New World Order, and how dare you teach my kids about these things. Libtards!" It's a very dangerous attitude if it is indeed true there are real threats facing the globe, threats that need real policy or democratic actions.