Gaza cut off: Israel closes border crossings indefinitely

originally posted by: MGaddafi
a reply to: buster2010

And the settlement rate has still continued to grow which is clearly an act of provocation to force a response from hamas or any one.

If a random person shoots or throws rocks or even fights or threatens any Israeli then thats a green light for them to blame hamas and go full scale war against against a few people in a dense crowded city. Them claim self protection ?

Being that Palestine is a occupied land International law gives Palestine the right to fight their occupiers. But you will find that many Americans will support Israel even if they went around putting babies on spikes because they believe the delusion that this is land that God gave them. So they will believe the constant lies of we are defending ourselves that Israel is always crying.

a reply to: buster2010

And taking it apart further we see the ideology of gods chosen people is that the same as a nazi master race ideology. The Talmud refers to goyim (non Jews) as nothing more than sheep to be prayed upon and used as such.

originally posted by: hounddoghowlie
a reply to: intrptr

if they hadn't been trying to sneak in war materials, and construction materials for the raid tunnels into Israel through the ports. they would still be open and have no need for tunnels and would be receiving the good they need to survive. until hamas is out this will contiue to go on. the Palestinians voted them in they need to run them out and then i bet you dollars to donuts that the fighting would stop.

I would take that bet. Israel wants the oil that is under Gaza so much so that they have even been caught trying to sell it. So you can expect that they will constantly make up lies about all the weapons being shipped in that is why they keep their illegal blockade going. So the fighting will not stop because Israel doesn't want it to stop.

originally posted by: MGaddafi
a reply to: buster2010

And taking it apart further we see the ideology of gods chosen people is that the same as a nazi master race ideology. The Talmud refers to goyim (non Jews) as nothing more than sheep to be prayed upon and used as such.

Well if you do some research you will find that many of Hitler's Generals were Zionist. His financial backers were Zionist even the person who taught him to give speeches and work up a crowd was a Zionist. So it's not far fetched to think that he was using their ideology.

a reply to: buster2010

nice spin, take a conflict that has been brewing for 60 years between Israel and palestine and other arabs, and turn it into a oil deal. if Israel wanted the oil bad enough, and are as dishonest as you claim. they could take the new oil drilling technology and drill sideways and pump the oil out.

a reply to: buster2010

Mind blowing indeed more than coincidence so it must be a pattern.

And about the oil. I think oil is prime source of money but not power and they drag the conflict on to show their power to the international community on the poor Palestinian guinea pigs.

a reply to: hounddoghowlie

Hamas are the ones who won't settle for two party states, they vow that until all Israelis are dead there can be no peace.

Hamas has said they stopped using that charter years ago. Maybe you should read up on the Likud charter the charter for the party that Benny is part of it calls for the destruction of any Palestinian state. When was the last time Benny denounced his parties charter?
The Hateful Likud Charter Calls for Destruction of Any Palestinian State

a. “The Jordan river will be the permanent eastern border of the State of Israel.”
b. “Jerusalem is the eternal, united capital of the State of Israel and only of Israel. The government will flatly reject Palestinian proposals to divide Jerusalem”
c. “The Government of Israel flatly rejects the establishment of a Palestinian Arab state west of the Jordan river.”
d. “The Jewish communities in Judea, Samaria and Gaza are the realization of Zionist values. Settlement of the land is a clear expression of the unassailable right of the Jewish people to the Land of Israel and constitutes an important asset in the defense of the vital interests of the State of Israel. The Likud will continue to strengthen and develop these communities and will prevent their uprooting.

originally posted by: hounddoghowlie
a reply to: buster2010

nice spin, take a conflict that has been brewing for 60 years between Israel and palestine and other arabs, and turn it into a oil deal. if Israel wanted the oil bad enough, and are as dishonest as you claim. they could take the new oil drilling technology and drill sideways and pump the oil out.

Sorry but where it is located at they would be caught attempting to do that. They would get caught the same way Saddam caught the oil companies in Kuwait angle drilling into his oil fields. Btw oil is just icing on the cake Israel just wants to kill or displace everyone out of Palestine so they could steal the land.

a reply to: buster2010

maybe you should read into the statement made during the last talks by leaders outside of the talks.
here is just one.

(3) ” Palestine is from the sea to the river, from Rosh HaNikra to Rafah. The siege will not change our belief, wars don’t cause people give up resistance and resistance leaders. We will not recognize! We will not recognize! We will not recognize Israel!”
8 years, 8 Quotes by Hamas Leader Ismail Haniyeh

ETA: my bad that is from 2010/2011 but if you give me a few i'll weed through new stuff that's popping up in the searches and give one from the begaining of the year.

originally posted by: hounddoghowlie
a reply to: buster2010

maybe you should read into the statement made during the last talks by leaders outside of the talks.
here is just one.

(3) ” Palestine is from the sea to the river, from Rosh HaNikra to Rafah. The siege will not change our belief, wars don’t cause people give up resistance and resistance leaders. We will not recognize! We will not recognize! We will not recognize Israel!”
8 years, 8 Quotes by Hamas Leader Ismail Haniyeh

ETA: my bad that is from 2010/2011 but if you give me a few i'll weed through new stuff that's popping up in the searches and give one from the begaining of the year.

Maybe you should reread or stop putting your own spin on the link that you are posting. Nowhere does it say kill all Israeli's it says they will never recognize Israel. Also using a IDF blog to back up your complaints about Hamas is laughable. Try using a neutral source.

originally posted by: hounddoghowlie
a reply to: tothetenthpower

well if someone attacks you, is not a correct to respond with overwhelming force to stop it. or you just suppose to say that's alright.

Hamas are the ones who won't settle for two party states, they vow that until all Israelis are dead there can be no peace.
it's not Israel's fault that hamas started a gun fight with a knife.

Israel is an occupying power, and is required by international law to maintain and uphold the stable livelihood of its subjects, the Palestinian people. Maintaining proper living conditions does not include bombing densely populated areas.

What are the most important principles governing occupation?

The duties of the occupying power are spelled out primarily in the 1907 Hague Regulations (arts 42-56) and the Fourth Geneva Convention (GC IV, art. 27-34 and 47-78), as well as in certain provisions of Additional Protocol I and customary international humanitarian law.

Agreements concluded between the occupying power and the local authorities cannot deprive the population of occupied territory of the protection afforded by international humanitarian law (GC IV, art. 47) and protected persons themselves can in no circumstances renounce their rights (GC IV, art. 8).

The main rules of the law applicable in case of occupation state that:

- The occupant does not acquire sovereignty over the territory.

- Occupation is only a temporary situation, and the rights of the occupant are limited to the extent of that period.

- The occupying power must respect the laws in force in the occupied territory, unless they constitute a threat to its security or an obstacle to the application of the international law of occupation.

- The occupying power must take measures to restore and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety.

- To the fullest extent of the means available to it, the occupying power must ensure sufficient hygiene and public health standards, as well as the provision of food and medical care to the population under occupation.

- The population in occupied territory cannot be forced to enlist in the occupier's armed forces.

- Collective or individual forcible transfers of population from and within the occupied territory are prohibited.

- Transfers of the civilian population of the occupying power into the occupied territory, regardless whether forcible or voluntary, are prohibited.

- Collective punishment is prohibited.

- The taking of hostages is prohibited.

- Reprisals against protected persons or their property are prohibited.

- The confiscation of private property by the occupant is prohibited.

- The destruction or seizure of enemy property is prohibited, unless absolutely required by military necessity during the conduct of hostilities.

- Cultural property must be respected.

- People accused of criminal offences shall be provided with proceedings respecting internationally recognized judicial guarantees (for example, they must be informed of the reason for their arrest, charg ed with a specific offence and given a fair trial as quickly as possible).

- Personnel of the International Red Cross/Red Crescent Movement must be allowed to carry out their humanitarian activities. The ICRC, in particular, must be given access to all protected persons, wherever they are, whether or not they are deprived of their liberty.

www.icrc.org...

In addition to this, Palestinians have the right, under international law, to resist its occupation and to seek self-determination through any means at their disposal. As stated under the UN General Assembly's 1970 Resolution A/RES/2649(XXV):

Emphasizing the importance of the universal realization of the right of peoples to self-determination and of the speedy granting of independence to colonial countries and peoples for the effective guarantee and observance of human rights,


Concerned that many peoples are still denied the right to self-determination and are still subject to colonial and alien domination

…

1. Affirms the legitimacy of the struggle of peoples under colonial and alien domination recognized as being entitled to the right of self-determination to restore to themselves that right by any means at their disposal;

2. Recognizes the right of peoples under colonial and alien domination in the legitimate exercise of their right to self-determination to seek and receive all kinds of moral and material assistance, in accordance with the resolutions of the United Nations and the spirit of the Charter of the United Nations;

3. Calls upon all Governments that deny the right to self-determination of peoples under colonial and alien domination to recognize and observe that right in accordance with the relevant international instruments and the principles and spirit of the Charter;

4. Considers that the acquisition and retention of territory in contravention of the right of the people of that territory to self-determination is inadmissible and a gross violation of the Charter;

5. Condemns those Governments that deny the right to self-determination of peoples recognized as being entitled to it, especially of the peoples of southern Africa and Palestine…

unispal.un.org...

As for Hamas, it has stated in the past that it no longer subscribes to its charter, but cannot change it for political reasons. Also, it is a matter of fact that Hamas didn't start the latest war with Israel. Israel bombed Gaza, and Hamas responded. Essentially, it was Israel which started the war this year, through collective punishment of Palestinians in the West Bank, and the bombing of targets inside Gaza:

This current Gaza conflict began with Hamas rocket fire on 30 June 2014

Times of Israel: "Hamas operatives were behind a large volley of rockets which slammed into Israel Monday morning, the first time in years the Islamist group has directly challenged the Jewish state, according to Israeli defense officials.. The security sources, who spoke on condition of anonymity, assessed that Hamas had probably launched the barrage in revenge for an Israeli airstrike several hours earlier which killed one person and injured three more.. Hamas hasn't fired rockets into Israel since Operation Pillar of Defense ended in November 2012."

The Nation: "During ten days of Operation Brother's Keeper in the West Bank [before the start of the Gaza conflict], Israel arrested approximately 800 Palestinians without charge or trial, killed nine civilians and raided nearly 1,300 residential, commercial and public buildings. Its military operation targeted Hamas members released during the Gilad Shalit prisoner exchange in 2011."

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk...

In summary, Israel started the war, even though it is required to maintain the stability and livelihood of the Palestinians. Even if it did not start the war, the Palestinian people have the right to self-determination, and are allowed to achieve that through any means at their disposal.

a reply to: buster2010

here is one from this year, it has what i has what i said begain with that if hamas is gone there is a chance for peace according to Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas, and he is trying to crack down on hamas. here is a quote from that article that shows that hamas leader has no intent for a peace solution.

Hamas, who has repeatedly expressed that they would never agree to any peace with Israel, has hindered all recent peace efforts between Israel and the Palestinians. According to the head of the Arab League, Abbas is ready for “real negotiations” with Israel.
Abbas Cracks Down on Hamas

same article.

Despite what appear to be Abbas’s willingness to renew peace negotiations with Israel, Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh rejected all calls for peace with the Jewish state on Friday. Speaking to a gathering in Gaza City, Haniyeh said that Hamas “cannot accept or deal with any international decision to disarm the resistance.”

what do you think he means by no peace, just let Israel stay there and not do any thing. or until they leave.

Also using a IDF blog to back up your complaints about Hamas is laughable. Try using a neutral source.

blogs are blogs, your sources is just as biased.

Juan Cole is Richard P. Mitchell Collegiate Professor of History at the University of Michigan. For three decades, he has sought to put the relationship of the West and the Muslim world in historical context. His most recent work is The New Arabs: How the Wired and Global Youth of the Middle East Is Transforming It (Simon & Schuster, June, 2014). Engaging the Muslim World (Palgrave Macmillan, March, 2009, rev. 2010) and he also recently authored Napoleon’s Egypt: Invading the Middle East (Palgrave Macmillan, 2007). He has been a regular guest on PBS’s Lehrer News Hour, and has also appeared on ABC Nightly News, Nightline, the Today Show, Charlie Rose, Anderson Cooper 360, Countdown with Keith Olbermann, Rachel Maddow, the Colbert Report, Democracy Now! and many others. He has given many radio and press interviews. He has written widely about Egypt, Iran, Iraq, and South Asia. He has commented extensively on al-Qaeda and the Taliban, the Iraq War, the politics of Pakistan and Afghanistan, and Iranian domestic struggles and foreign affairs. He has a regular column at Truthdig. He continues to study and write about contemporary Islamic movements, whether mainstream or radical, whether Sunni and Salafi or Shi`ite. Cole commands Arabic, Persian and Urdu and reads some Turkish, knows both Middle Eastern and South Asian Islam. He lived in various parts of the Muslim world for nearly 10 years, and continues to travel widely there. A bibliography of his writings may be found here.
About

he seems very pro arab to me.

a reply to: hounddoghowlie

The quotes you provided do not display Hamas' dedication to the destruction of Israel. Nor do they provide any reason to believe that Hamas doesn't want peace with Israel.

Hamas stated in your quotes that there won't be any negotiations on peace if they require the disarmament of Palestinian resistance groups. That tells me that they are willing to negotiate, just that they cannot accept a proposition requiring Palestinian resistance groups to lay down arms.

It honestly sounds like a reasonable request to me.

a reply to: daaskapital

when the Palestinian Authority president says and starts cracking down on hamas that tells me he sees them as the problem and that, until they stop there will be no peace. so disarming them is the only way this can move forward.

i'm not done searching yet they have made the statement i just haven't found it yet.

a reply to: daaskapital

here is one from 2012.

Khaled Meshaal, the leader of the Islamist Hamas movement, made a defiant speech before thousands of supporters in the Gaza Strip on Saturday, promising to take "inch-by-inch" all of modern-day Israel, which he said he would never recognize.
Hamas's Gaza jubilation proves Israel is at risk: Netanyahu

so knowing that israel will never let that happen how does he or you suppose are they going to do it?

and another to back that one up.

Meshaal, in an uncompromising speech told a sea of flag-waving supporters that he would never recognise Israel and pledged to “free the land of Palestine inch by inch”.

Thousands of Palestinians Celebrate Victory in Gaza

moving closer to 2014. i'll find it.

a reply to: daaskapital

I guess Hamas will just dig more tunnels.

Gaza is just an open air prison & that's how Israel likes it.

a reply to: hounddoghowlie

Every Palestinian looks like a Hamas. Necessary dehumanization to go along with "human shielding" (behind every Gazan a Hamas and below every school or hospital, a rocket factory).

Do tell. Those are the excuses to keep pounding Gaza with sledgehammer bombs. Whoops theres another bottle rocket. Shooting back isn't allowed. Bunch of paranoid control freaks. They need to be seen in the limelight and the only way they can get in the news of late is to hammer on the rightful owners whose land Israel occupies.

Bombing, closing churches, closing borders. Yah, what good oppressors.

I am sorry if this post is brief however work is keeping me from a elaborating more. I would like to see if anyone can debunk this information:

If Americans Knew

a reply to: intrptr

does this sound like a country hell bent on running out all palestinians.
dated on sep 29,2014

In a speech to the United Nations, Netanyahu singled out Hamas, which governs the Gaza Strip; the Islamic State, which has seized vast territory in Iraq and Syria; and Iran, which he accused of seeking to obtain nuclear weapons. All pose a threat to Israel and its Arab neighbors, he said. "Leaders of the Arab world recognize that we and they increasingly face the same dangers — a nuclear Iran and the rise of Islamic extremism in the Arab world," Netanyahu said. "Together we can expand regional security and expand projects in water and energy — in so many fields. I believe the partnership between us would facilitate peace between Israel and the Palestinians."

there is at least one israeli officer that claims that israel have not been responding to rocket or mortar attacks due to the cease fire, before this last one.
Dated Oct 21, 2014

An Israel Army officer asserted that the military brass refused to acknowledge Hamas and other Palestinian fire into Israel since the ceasefire in August 2014. The officer, Maj. Ran Levy, said the military denied that air raid sirens heard over the last month stemmed from renewed mortar and rocket launches from the Gaza Strip.
Israel mum on renewed rocket fire, allows daughter of Hamas leader to be treated in Tel Aviv

then you have the fact that Israel has and is allowing a hamas leader's daughter treatment in a Israeli hospital. which angers many in Israel
dated Oct 21,2014

But following a bloody 50-day war over the summer, a decision to allow the daughter of a top Hamas official to receive care at an Israeli hospital is proving to be too much for some Israelis. The treatment of Ismail Haniyeh's daughter has sparked a debate over whether Israel's stated commitment to providing humanitarian aid should be extended to its bitterest enemies.

allowing one of the most sworn bitter enemies leaders family in for medical treatment doesn't sound like a a country whose leaders are hell bent on their total destruction to me.

also if you notice the next paragraph.

Haniyeh, who served as the prime minister of the Hamas government in Gaza, is one of Israel's greatest foes. He frequently calls for Israel's destruction in fiery sermons and drew international criticism for praising Osama bin Laden as a "martyr" after he was killed by the U.S. in 2011.

above from Israelis question care of Hamas leader's daughter /
now this is coming from one of the most respected business magizines there is. well actually this is a AP story that they ran.

a reply to: hounddoghowlie

Actions speak louder than words my friend and sadly no amount of thoughtful thinking or remorseful words will be able to justify Israel's actions.
There's no amount of words or speeches that can change what they have done or how many lives taken or ruined.