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The Reason for the Economic Decline of America

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posted on Nov, 1 2014 @ 03:21 PM
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a reply to: xuenchen

You'd think we see a decline in property value after that but I guess the dollar has been devalued so much that the cost actually caught up with themselves.




posted on Nov, 1 2014 @ 03:26 PM
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Unfortunately, the American middle-class is not organized. And when they do try to organize they just become a huge, easy target for those who would manipulate the global economy. Corporations expect that a middle-class worker will drop all political affiliations and beliefs when they come to work but it is not unusual for large corporations to maintain a cadre of lobbyists in close proximity to the law maker's offices.


What happens in a workplace when employees want to organize? I think we all know what happens --- there will be a strong backlash from management/owners.. i.e. middle-class jobs are cut or moved away.

What happens in a workplace that already has a contract and they try a 'mobilization'?? --- again, there will be a strong and certain backlash from those who feel most threatened, owners, management, shareholders. Some executives might go so far as to "crash the company" before giving recognition to a middle-class labor union. It really is that bad in America!


In America, the economic leaders are expected to re-organize frequently between themselves (through cycles of merger, acquisition and divestiture) for shareholder gains AND to reward each other (more $ for failing!) with gratuitous stock options. The side benefit is the destruction of labor's inherent self organizing power which is so dangerous to the capitalist mind set. It is a totalitarian fascism to work for any American business.

The American middle-class worker is therefore politically AND economically 'disabled' in the American workplace by virtue of the current arrangement of the American economy. That's why the Mitt Romney anecdote is so revealing of his mind set... corporations are people... riiiiiiiight suuuuuuuure... we believed you Mitt.


edit on 11/1/2014 by SayonaraJupiter because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 1 2014 @ 03:28 PM
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a reply to: xuenchen

You mean lack of regulations and predatory lending. Banks started giving loans to people they full well knew couldn't keep up. Since bankruptcy law barely exists for regular people they got paid by our taxes in the bailout.The 2008 crash was entirely the fault of greedy bankers. We should have let them reap what they sowed.

If you wanna learn more go to the library and read a book. Fox news and internet opinion articles won't give you the full story. Many books have been written on the subject. The banks are the root cause of our economic problems.

Jefferson warned us at the start. Jackson and TR spent their whole presidencies battling these monsters. FDR meant well but they manipulated him into their agenda. The plan was primarily set in motion after WW1. It's never stopped since and accelerated heavily from Reagan. Both parties got suckered.



posted on Nov, 1 2014 @ 03:28 PM
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originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: Jenisiz

It's the costumer that chooses the bidder.

Do you not know how co struction works? You get a set of tools and a truck and you start bidding on jobs, job goes to the lowest bidder which means it forces construction companies to adapt tomthe new low prices meaning they have to hire cheaper labor period.


Very aware how it works and those materials being purchased and designers being put to work aren't done by immigrants... mid class Americans. The companies hiring immigrants do so for higher profits. Construction is just one small part of a much more grand picture. CSR jobs and countless other fields being outsourced is the issue. Construction is not the highest profitable business in america. Government contacted companies do not hire companies that employee illegals so your point is moot. Most construction companies do thorough background checks for this to get said contracts. It's the mom and pop shops that are employing illegals and they have to in order to afford the low balling done by major corporations lining their pockets.



posted on Nov, 1 2014 @ 03:34 PM
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a reply to: Jenisiz

What where are you getting this information? Construction is massively profitable.



Construction is one of the largest individual contributors to GDP. According to the Associated General Contractors of America (AGC), private nonresidential investment grew at a faster pace than GDP for 11 straight quarters through mid-2008. The construction industry’s value-added contribution totaled more than $562 billion in 2007, as reported by the U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis (BEA). This is a decrease of approximately $68 billion from the value-added amount of $630 billion reported for 2006. In 2007, the construction industry was responsible for 4.1 percent of GDP, down from a 4.8 percent contribution in 2006.


source

Guess construction is a bigger Part of the economy then you think. News flash from someone who actually works in the industry, illegals take up a majority of the jobs these days and guess what, they massively devalued the rest of the market. It's having a massive impact on GDP and on the middle class.



posted on Nov, 1 2014 @ 03:38 PM
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a reply to: Cobaltic1978


Globalisation caused much of the decline in the U.S, with many corporation moving their production to the so called third world countries.


This is good to keep in mind. But here is the good version of globalization: The American hegemony of global business (in language, in culture) is keeping America's head barely above water. It is America's best interest to import slave labor goods from other countries and to have those country's speaking North American Anglais when they do business with us.

It was not an accident that Japan and South Korea are so thouroughly Westernized. So it can't be an accident that the American economy is globalizing faster than other countries can ... simply because America must be first in everything - American's do not tolerate a loser.
edit on 11/1/2014 by SayonaraJupiter because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 1 2014 @ 03:38 PM
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The Kernel is of the belief that it is indeed corporate greed that has led us to this point. The boom years saw a product that if successful became mass produced. Reducing cost/unit. More people could afford "it". Or those with better means could afford to use that savings to apply to another purchase. Thus increasing production. More money in the workers pockets and they do the same. It becomes exponential.

It today's market, if something sells, raise the price. Gouge for as long as possible. Minimize costs. What your workers are going to add to the economy.



posted on Nov, 1 2014 @ 03:49 PM
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a reply to: tavi45

Yes.

But I was questioning the effect Glass-Steagall had or if the repeal didn't have on regular banks.


And I think banks paid big time for those loan losses.

The "bailouts" were loans I think, not grants.

Somebody else had an agenda. A bigger agenda.


edit on Nov-01-2014 by xuenchen because:




posted on Nov, 1 2014 @ 03:54 PM
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a reply to: Willtell


First: Get the trade policy back to the protectionism is was( protecting US jobs) in past years
Two: Raise the tax rate of the rich to where it was in the 50’s and 60’s.
Three: Bring back the Glass–Steagall act that separated investment banking from ordinary savings and loan commercial banks.
Only then will the economy start returning to growth.


You forgot some stuff:

Four: Bring back the Cold War against Russia and elect another Ronald Reagan.
Five: Start another HOT war in a small, isolated region of the world. Preferably Africa.
Six: Reinstate the draft and at the same time mandate 2-year service for all 18-yo Americans.
Seven: See where I am going with this?

Good Thread! Really got me thinking!



posted on Nov, 1 2014 @ 04:36 PM
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originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: Jenisiz

What where are you getting this information? Construction is massively profitable.



Construction is one of the largest individual contributors to GDP. According to the Associated General Contractors of America (AGC), private nonresidential investment grew at a faster pace than GDP for 11 straight quarters through mid-2008. The construction industry’s value-added contribution totaled more than $562 billion in 2007, as reported by the U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis (BEA). This is a decrease of approximately $68 billion from the value-added amount of $630 billion reported for 2006. In 2007, the construction industry was responsible for 4.1 percent of GDP, down from a 4.8 percent contribution in 2006.


source

Guess construction is a bigger Part of the economy then you think. News flash from someone who actually works in the industry, illegals take up a majority of the jobs these days and guess what, they massively devalued the rest of the market. It's having a massive impact on GDP and on the middle class.


And as someone with several degrees, one of which is Industrial Psychology who was a Senior Analytics Underwriter for Chase, I can tell you Financial Fields far exceed construction profit wise. Between Wells and Chase over 12K ppl lost their jobs in one month. I've never seen that in construction...and the amount of money they yield dwarfs construction by billions. Over 4k of those jobs were just sent overseas. At least construction is local...meaning employees spend their earnings locally. Outsourced employees don't.

Again, most money from construction is generated by the government (Road maintenance is incredibly profitable) who hires companies that DO NOT employee illegals. Other major construction companies like Lane, McGraw Hill ect don't either. It's the small to mid size ones illegally hiring illegals...period. And these illegals still spend their taxes locally. Outsourcing is incredibly more problematic.

And you do realize the source you quoted specifies nonresidential right? Aka...gov and big corpa who hire from licensed and credible companies such as those I mentioned above. They wouldn't be caught dead with illegals off the books like Grand Canyon Candle Co. Who once they became large enough fell under scrutiny and was caught. If you're growing, they're checking. If you're growing and outsourcing... no problem, that's legal.
edit on 1-11-2014 by Jenisiz because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 1 2014 @ 05:32 PM
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Back in the day, I know most here weren’t born; one could get a job pretty easy, compared to today.

Could actually go through college with a part time job.

Could get in the post office and work

Get a government job

Plan for the future


Get a manufacturing job

Not today



posted on Nov, 1 2014 @ 05:44 PM
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a reply to: Willtell

Agreed. I spent years in college accumulating degrees and when I was laid off from Chase it was a massive shock. I went 3 months unemployed looking everyday and no matter how many certificates and degrees I acquired it made no difference. Also everyone is doing credit checks now which makes it a pain.

I accumulated alot of debt while doing chemo and fell behind two months on my mortgage when I got laid off...believe it or not I was hired by BofA and was scheduled to start the following week after my last interview. That Friday, before Monday, they receded my offer until I could provide proof I had paid my mortgage and the lates reporting wrong. How can you maintain credit with no job and medical bills surpassing 200k? System is set up to help you fail.

I was forced to look into CSR jobs which are almost nonexistent now thanks to companies like Verizon sending them overseas to Jim and Tod (Whose real names are Suresh and Kala)...luckily I found an opening with a Tech Firm for a VP of Sales position. Ironically the first week I was there they decided to move manufacturing of our routers to China laying off 55 employees.

edit on 1-11-2014 by Jenisiz because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 1 2014 @ 06:00 PM
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a reply to: Jenisiz

Many would tell you it's your fault. I'm sorry you got screwed by our rigged system.



posted on Nov, 1 2014 @ 06:21 PM
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originally posted by: Jenisiz
a reply to: Willtell

Agreed. I spent years in college accumulating degrees and when I was laid off from Chase it was a massive shock. I went 3 months unemployed looking everyday and no matter how many certificates and degrees I acquired it made no difference. Also everyone is doing credit checks now which makes it a pain.

I accumulated alot of debt while doing chemo and fell behind two months on my mortgage when I got laid off...believe it or not I was hired by BofA and was scheduled to start the following week after my last interview. That Friday, before Monday, they receded my offer until I could provide proof I had paid my mortgage and the lates reporting wrong. How can you maintain credit with no job and medical bills surpassing 200k? System is set up to help you fail.

I was forced to look into CSR jobs which are almost nonexistent now thanks to companies like Verizon sending them overseas to Jim and Tod (Whose real names are Suresh and Kala)...luckily I found an opening with a Tech Firm for a VP of Sales position. Ironically the first week I was there they decided to move manufacturing of our routers to China laying off 55 employees.


Ohhh... That's explains your perspective on construction.



posted on Nov, 1 2014 @ 06:32 PM
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Here the problem with the USA and UK

Both can't decide if capitlist or socialist

Singapore= Free market =super successful

Norway = socialist = super successful

USA and UK is nothing but corporate fascism.



posted on Nov, 1 2014 @ 06:44 PM
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originally posted by: Willtell
a reply to: TinfoilTP

That's right... were talking about good high-paying union jobs on the railroad, steel industry, car industry, apparel industry, IT field ( all going overseas) and millions and millions of manufacturing jobs,

All lost forever


And there was someone who told us it would all happen. 25% of the voting population believed him and voted for him allowing Clinton to become president ... His name was Ross Perot and that great sucking sound you will hear are American jobs going overseas..

Regan said he believed Americans knew how to spend their money better than the government.. Thus the taxes were cut for most everyone.. So hell yes let's give the government more money to waste and spend on bombs and welfare instead of getting at the root problem which is jobs and trade practices, banking, and mafia type government programs... I.E. stealing what little money or property you think you own .

One thing the Op did not mention was the size of government and their pay during those years versus today. There is not one thing, or even a few things, that has gotten us into this position we find ourselves today.. 35% taxes on Corporations when they can move overseas and pay 15% is just one of the slices of this rotten pie..



posted on Nov, 1 2014 @ 06:46 PM
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a reply to: Willtell

Thank you so much for this post, OP. Capitalism and technology lead to a vast and growing middle class. Socialism came by and caused the decay. Its a basic corruption problem. Stealing is taking people's property without permission. Taxation is taking people's property without permission. They are both equally wrong because they both lead to social decay. Until people stop thinking they have a right to other people's property, other people's expressions, and other people's choices, then the world will continue to be a place of incredible chaos.

The drug war is to some degree a communist concept because it is saying the government should have absolute control over the drug supply. So, you could also say communism, or possibly authoritarian or policies, is leading to decay and chaos.

Then of course there is the neoconservative philosophers who believe governments should be run as empires. They are to blame too.

No, the world will not be perfect with capitalism and liberal drug laws. It would be much like Singapore or Switzerland. A generally safe and healthy place with no outright chaos in the streets and no longer millions and millions of people in jail for non-violent "crimes". Right now 2 billion people and more are living in miserable conditions, and yes there are people at fault for it.

It wasn't too much freedom in the banking industry that caused the 2008. It was a blatantly fascist money supply system set up by the government and managed by private companies that is the cause of the 2008 crisis. A private money supply system would not survive this long on leverage of 50 to 1 or worse. A truly safe money system is generally not going to have worse than leverage of maybe 9 to 1.



posted on Nov, 1 2014 @ 06:55 PM
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a reply to: crazyewok

Here is the thing, technology is obsoleting many jobs, and connecting the whole world. Massive change was unavoidable, tech is putting everyone on the same level worldwide. Half of today's jobs are projected to be gone - completely gone within 20 years.

There is no easy solution for this, it has been and will continue to cause havoc. Absent the use of deadly force on a massive scale we will continue to become a poorer county on a per capita basis as the rest of the world takes more of its share. Now is the distribution of wealth that we do have fair, no I don't think so, with that said that is more about the corruption of our government that the system itself.

The whole world is being terrorized by the banks, the economic system as we know it is doomed. The real question is what will replace it, and how messy will the process of getting there be.



posted on Nov, 1 2014 @ 06:55 PM
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a reply to: 727Sky

Corp tax is 35% in the USA? Crap id move overseas !

The UK 20% seems a lot more attractive !



posted on Nov, 1 2014 @ 06:55 PM
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Dp
edit on 1-11-2014 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)



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