It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

UKIP in Britain - Manufacturing a new Hitler

page: 9
11
<< 6  7  8    10  11  12 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Oct, 31 2014 @ 07:17 AM
link   

originally posted by: theabsolutetruth
a reply to: SecretFace

I live in the London commuter zone and can say that all of that which you said exists and needs stopping, like now, I have said it often and have been called racist for it on ATS, but people need to be proactive, complacency has caused a lot of these issues.

However much these things need fixing and I agree we should have our country back, if whichever party wanted to send them all back, I would probably agree, but I am wary of UKIP.

Just because those issues need fixing doesn't mean the first party that says we will stop immigration, by leaving the EU, appears is worthy of a vote. It might seem like the only other option but in reality it might mean financial ruin for the UK due to all the complications of being part of the EU and the way international politics are.

People should be wary of just voting UKIP because they want immigration sorted. There is credible research from various places that say leaving the EU financially isn't viable, at least for now.

Until there is a party that can address all of the concerns with proper strategy based on real research with viable results I would advise people to really think before voting.

A revolution is in order but making the UK a lone nation apart from the EU trappings might not be the best strategy.



I dont see how leaving the EU politicly means we would need to leave economically.

The EU and the Euro is teetering on the edge, if the EU banned us from trade it would mean the end of the EU economy. They need our trade as much as we need there's. To cancel EU trade would mean economic suicide.

If the UK decides to leave it would be better for both party's to part politicly but keep the trade pacts still running.




posted on Oct, 31 2014 @ 07:20 AM
link   
Farage is not another Hitler.

Neither is he a Churchill or Clement Attlee.

But due to the constant disregard and contempt the major political parties have for the electorate he and his party are perceived as the only option a growing number of British citizens have.

People can spew their political spin or assume the moral high ground from their ivory towers as much as they want but the reality is that people have genuine concerns regarding immigration and there is an urgent need to have a public debate on the pro's and con's of continued membership of the EU and the loss of sovereignty.

And the casual disdain that politicians and others consumed with their own self-importance give to these genuine concerns only serve to add to the attraction of Farage and UKIP.



posted on Oct, 31 2014 @ 08:31 AM
link   
a reply to: and14263

I'm not going to divulge who I work for and what I do for a living on here, but I can assure you with the utmost honesty and also respect for people who will read what I detail, I never state anything unless I know for a certain for it to be fact, which means experiencing it myself or knowing with the utmost confidence that it is indeed fact and that only comes about liasing with those who have experienced it.

Believe me, I wish didn't feel like it, likewise a part of me wishes that I lived in ignorant bliss and wasn't at the forefront of this madnes. You might be on to something and I was wrong to laugh off your original post for that I apologise, but again, what are we to do?



posted on Oct, 31 2014 @ 09:30 AM
link   
a reply to: crazyewok

If it was a viable and safe strategy I would be singing it's praises but there are catches to leaving the EU in any way.

Tele graph


MEPs would have a veto over the terms on which Britain could leave the European Union with the power to impose crippling trade barriers on the City of London.

A report by the Open Europe think tank, which is politically close to George Osborne, the Chancellor, has examined the costs of Brexit, a British exit from the EU.

If Britain left the EU following a No vote in a referendum, then the City and financial services, a key part of the British economy, could be frozen out of the European market according to the report.

Open Europe's report is based on the conclusions of its simulated Brexit negotiations last year and looks at what deal Britain could expect to get outside the EU as well as the workings of a deliberately punitive and unappealing mechanism for withdrawal from the Union.

The report comes before a television debate tonight between Nigel Farage, the Ukip leader, and Nick Clegg, the leader of the Liberal Democrats, over the benefits of leaving the EU against remaining within reformed European political structures.

One of the report's main findings is that under Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty, a country that wants to leave the EU has a diminished role, and is sometimes not even present at the table, during negotiations on new legal arrangements governing European trade and the cost of leaving.

Britain would not be allowed to take part in the final vote of countries over its settlement with the EU and MEPs, who have often expressed deep hostility to British Euroscepticism and the City, would have a veto.

"The two-year process to leave the EU gives the remainder EU the upper hand in any negotiation on new trade term," said Mats Persson, the director of Open Europe.

"Those who say 'let's just leave' don't quite realise that the EU institutions may actually have an equally strong, if not stronger, say, over Brexit talks than if Britain seeks renegotiation from within the EU."

While there would be a strong incentive for the EU to conclude a trade deal with the Britain for goods, because the British economy imports more than it exports, striking a deal on financial services would be much more difficult.

"Despite the various claims by the likes of Farage and Clegg, Britain would neither become like Hong Kong nor North Korea outside the EU," said Mats Persson, the director of Open Europe.

"While it is likely that a free trade deal for goods could be reached relatively easily if the UK left the EU, a deal on services and financial services in particular would be far more difficult."

The European Central Bank, France and Germany would resist British companies, banks and insurers being given free access to continental markets where Britain enjoys a trade surplus of £15 billion.
Laurent Fabius, the French foreign minister, warned yesterday that if Britain decided to leave the EU "it will not be Great Britain but Small Britain".

In line with Conservative thinking, the think tank concludes that the limits of possible reforms to the EU must be tested first before the question of leaving can be decided on because of the high-transaction costs of Brexit.

However, Open Report does urge David Cameron, the Prime Minister, to warn the EU that he is ready to trigger the Article 50 exit clause in order to show he is serious about winning powers back from Brussels.
"[It] is therefore best kept as an implicit threat, as in practice it cedes more control than it provides, though any leader negotiating new membership terms must clearly be ready to trigger it," said the report.
Nigel Farage, the leader of Ukip, played down the costs and difficulty of leaving the EU by pointing to the trade deficit worth £64.7 billion to European economies.

"We believe that EU withdrawal should be conducted under the terms of Article 50 and we expect that EU institutions will be constructive in reframing our relationship in a positive manner," he said.

"The UK is a vitally important export market for them and good relations are essential for their interests."

edit on 31-10-2014 by theabsolutetruth because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 31 2014 @ 09:52 AM
link   

originally posted by: theabsolutetruth
a reply to: crazyewok

If it was a viable and safe strategy I would be singing it's praises but there are catches to leaving the EU in any way.

Tele graph


MEPs would have a veto over the terms on which Britain could leave the European Union with the power to impose crippling trade barriers on the City of London.

A report by the Open Europe think tank, which is politically close to George Osborne, the Chancellor, has examined the costs of Brexit, a British exit from the EU.

If Britain left the EU following a No vote in a referendum, then the City and financial services, a key part of the British economy, could be frozen out of the European market according to the report.

Open Europe's report is based on the conclusions of its simulated Brexit negotiations last year and looks at what deal Britain could expect to get outside the EU as well as the workings of a deliberately punitive and unappealing mechanism for withdrawal from the Union.

The report comes before a television debate tonight between Nigel Farage, the Ukip leader, and Nick Clegg, the leader of the Liberal Democrats, over the benefits of leaving the EU against remaining within reformed European political structures.

One of the report's main findings is that under Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty, a country that wants to leave the EU has a diminished role, and is sometimes not even present at the table, during negotiations on new legal arrangements governing European trade and the cost of leaving.

Britain would not be allowed to take part in the final vote of countries over its settlement with the EU and MEPs, who have often expressed deep hostility to British Euroscepticism and the City, would have a veto.

"The two-year process to leave the EU gives the remainder EU the upper hand in any negotiation on new trade term," said Mats Persson, the director of Open Europe.

"Those who say 'let's just leave' don't quite realise that the EU institutions may actually have an equally strong, if not stronger, say, over Brexit talks than if Britain seeks renegotiation from within the EU."

While there would be a strong incentive for the EU to conclude a trade deal with the Britain for goods, because the British economy imports more than it exports, striking a deal on financial services would be much more difficult.

"Despite the various claims by the likes of Farage and Clegg, Britain would neither become like Hong Kong nor North Korea outside the EU," said Mats Persson, the director of Open Europe.

"While it is likely that a free trade deal for goods could be reached relatively easily if the UK left the EU, a deal on services and financial services in particular would be far more difficult."

The European Central Bank, France and Germany would resist British companies, banks and insurers being given free access to continental markets where Britain enjoys a trade surplus of £15 billion.
Laurent Fabius, the French foreign minister, warned yesterday that if Britain decided to leave the EU "it will not be Great Britain but Small Britain".

In line with Conservative thinking, the think tank concludes that the limits of possible reforms to the EU must be tested first before the question of leaving can be decided on because of the high-transaction costs of Brexit.

However, Open Report does urge David Cameron, the Prime Minister, to warn the EU that he is ready to trigger the Article 50 exit clause in order to show he is serious about winning powers back from Brussels.
"[It] is therefore best kept as an implicit threat, as in practice it cedes more control than it provides, though any leader negotiating new membership terms must clearly be ready to trigger it," said the report.
Nigel Farage, the leader of Ukip, played down the costs and difficulty of leaving the EU by pointing to the trade deficit worth £64.7 billion to European economies.

"We believe that EU withdrawal should be conducted under the terms of Article 50 and we expect that EU institutions will be constructive in reframing our relationship in a positive manner," he said.

"The UK is a vitally important export market for them and good relations are essential for their interests."


I haven't forgot you, I will respond to the info above.

I am in the middle of some quite pressing work at the moment so will break down the above at some point soon.

I promise you, although the concerns are understandable they are not well founded.

Korg.
edit on 31-10-2014 by Korg Trinity because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 31 2014 @ 10:05 AM
link   
a reply to: theabsolutetruth

And thats my point.

The EU could put trade barriers on us and freeze us out the finance market. But why would they? They would be destroying themselves aswell as crippling us.

EU would not survive such a financial shock. It would cripple us but destroy them.

It would be suicide.

Better for them to let us part ways politicly but let business go on as normal.

We are not Portugal or Romania the UK economy actually matters and gives us a huge bargaining chip.
edit on 31-10-2014 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 31 2014 @ 10:07 AM
link   
a reply to: crazyewok

There are all sorts of things they could impose and terms of leaving the EU would be the ball in their court, they would put their interests first and if that meant making it tough for the City they would.



posted on Oct, 31 2014 @ 10:11 AM
link   

originally posted by: theabsolutetruth
a reply to: crazyewok

There are all sorts of things they could impose and terms of leaving the EU would be the ball in their court, they would put their interests first and if that meant making it tough for the City they would.


I think your missing the point.

Making it tough for the city and the UK economy would NOT be in there interests. Making a barrier to UK trade and finances would screw them up. The UK economy is one of the few economy keeping the EU afloat, they can afford to lose us politicly but not economically.
edit on 31-10-2014 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 31 2014 @ 12:29 PM
link   

originally posted by: theabsolutetruth


"This is yet more powerful evidence that the UK pulling out of the EU is the very last thing our country needs. It will kill our hard earned recovery ... We will be left isolated in the margins and our future prosperity will be limited for generations,"



The EU is not the 'world market place' the EU is 27 countries, and there are

a further 200? countries out there, including

# USA # Australia # New Zealand # S.Africia # Singapore # Canada

# Malaysia # Switzerland # Israel # Turkey etc........


When I was in sales working for a company whose products included 'brand

leaders' and a product was delisted from a major retailer, we were told

to get out of our comfort zone and sell more into the 'independents

outlets'. However having a 'brand leader' the de-listings never lasted

long .... because if you have the right product at the right quality and

the right price people (Countries) will buy

Great Britain/UK did very well before the EU and there is no reason not

to do so again.

We fought two wars with Germany to keep our sovereignity and freedom

and now they are pushing all our buttons!! We need to get our pride back



posted on Oct, 31 2014 @ 12:54 PM
link   
a reply to: crazyewok a reply to: eletheia

I am aware of how the EU operates and I am not missing the point.

Those suggesting it is a simple leaving but keeping trade and the EU having to bow to the UK's demands, I suggest you read the article I posted, it covers details and no offence intended, but I choose not to ignore the professional research from independent bodies advising that there are risks to leaving the EU and that it might mean economic doom, which I do not want.

To be honest, it doesn't matter how many ATS members try convincing me, or even politicians, it would take proper research for me to believe any of it.

We will see if Korg can dig up any credible research that isn't UKIP sponsored.
edit on 31-10-2014 by theabsolutetruth because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 31 2014 @ 01:08 PM
link   
a reply to: SecretFace


Just to add to your post the council here where I live, house immigrants first

before locals. They are housed in similar groups of accommodation

which have an "alert" procedure for repairs, complaints etc.


A friend of mine employed by the council for property maintenance

has to respond to any calls from this "alert area" immediately regardless of

the urgency of the job he is currently on .... and sometimes it is only to

replace a toilet seat roll holder or towel rail!


Is it any wonder people are disgruntled, fed up and feel let down?



posted on Oct, 31 2014 @ 01:12 PM
link   
Comparing Farage to Hitler? LOL. Still, anyone using 'gorgeous' George Galloway as an avatar .....



posted on Oct, 31 2014 @ 01:15 PM
link   

originally posted by: Alekto
Comparing Farage to Hitler? LOL. Still, anyone using 'gorgeous' George Galloway as an avatar .....


Who is using George Galloway as an avatar?

Possibly comparing the RISE of Hitler to the RISE of UKIP is what's happening here. You're a good lad, pay more attention in class!



posted on Oct, 31 2014 @ 01:16 PM
link   
a reply to: eletheia

You make a very valid and realistic point.

Perhaps though legislation will be introduced to stop UK selling to EU after they leave? Only a suggestion. Like now, it's hard for my company to sell to China - we do do it though but it is discreetly done via a middle man.



posted on Oct, 31 2014 @ 01:17 PM
link   
Farage is a good lad. I might consider moving back if he gets in.



posted on Oct, 31 2014 @ 01:20 PM
link   

originally posted by: Alekto
Farage is a good lad. I might consider moving back if he gets in.


From Tokyo? Let's do a swap. If he gets in we'll do a straight swap - accomodation, job, family? Maybe not the family but I'd give Tokyo a crack.



posted on Oct, 31 2014 @ 01:22 PM
link   

originally posted by: and14263

originally posted by: Alekto
Farage is a good lad. I might consider moving back if he gets in.


From Tokyo? Let's do a swap. If he gets in we'll do a straight swap - accomodation, job, family? Maybe not the family but I'd give Tokyo a crack.



I'll pass thanks. While not withour her faults, I'd wager my mrs is out of your league.



posted on Oct, 31 2014 @ 01:24 PM
link   

originally posted by: theabsolutetruth

I choose not to ignore the professional research from independent bodies advising that there are risks to leaving the EU and that it might mean economic doom, which I do not want.




And the one's who say we are coming out of the recession quicker and

better than any one else including France and Germany??

Both of whom seem hell bent on keeping us under their thumbs.

Its supposed to be a Union ....

When was the last time we had any say in anything?



posted on Oct, 31 2014 @ 01:29 PM
link   
a reply to: eletheia

I am not trying to defend the EU, I am pointing out that it isn't easy to leave it and there are risks in doing so that might be less than worth it for the UK.

I think an EU is essentially a good idea in this day and age, everywhere else is partnering up and there are a lot of good points to it, immigration is not one of those, nor are many of their policies, but as it is the UK is in deep and there are a lot of businesses and financial institutions that would suffer if the UK tried leaving and that would impact on the greater economy and UK's international status, also that each other member state would have a say on the UK's terms of leaving and the UK wouldn't have any say.



posted on Oct, 31 2014 @ 01:30 PM
link   

originally posted by: Alekto

originally posted by: and14263

originally posted by: Alekto
Farage is a good lad. I might consider moving back if he gets in.


From Tokyo? Let's do a swap. If he gets in we'll do a straight swap - accomodation, job, family? Maybe not the family but I'd give Tokyo a crack.



I'll pass thanks. While not withour her faults, I'd wager my mrs is out of your league.


If I could give you a hundred stars I would.



new topics

top topics



 
11
<< 6  7  8    10  11  12 >>

log in

join