Will you double check your voting machine before pushing the enter button?

a reply to: vor78

I don't know if the machines are the same everywhere, but the ones in my area do produce a paper receipt of sorts that the machine retains as a 'paper trail'.

But what about your receipt so you can retain the paper trail instead of a "machine"?

a reply to: vor78

Same thing where I am. To the right side of the machines there is what looks like a peciept roll with a little printer. The paper goes past a little window and as it passes you can read the hard copy print of your vote.

I guess this must be pretty rare though

a reply to: intrptr

You don't get one with a paper ballot, either, so I don't know if there's really an issue there. As long as there's a paper trail somewhere, its theoretically sufficient, again, provided someone actually verifies that paper trail against the electronic vote. I have my doubts as to whether that happens, though.

a reply to: vor78

I have my doubts as to whether that happens, though.

Problem being is you don't really have that verification, right?

Like a check stub or monthly bill or bank statement, real estate deed, ticket stub… just not with voting, huh?


hmmm…

a reply to: intrptr

Its a problem, but I don't know how it can be solved. You could give everyone a receipt afterward, but the problem there is that it implies that your vote can be tracked and tied to you, yet your actual ballot is supposed to be anonymous. Further, the practicality depends also upon how paranoid you want to get with it. I can give you a paper receipt, but unless you can then use that to backtrack your specific vote in the official vote tally, how do you know it was ever counted at all?

Understand, I'm largely in agreement with you, but from a practical standpoint, there's only so much that can be done without breaking the principle of secrecy and anonymity of the voting process. There's never going to be 100% certainty unless you're willing to go that far.

a reply to: vor78

There's never going to be 100% certainty unless you're willing to go that far.

Well yah, except with the electric switch there no longer is any proof of anything but what the programmers have written into the machine code. Its not even a "machine" (another clue), the results are tallied digitally way up the chain in the "counting room". There they don't count ballots or compare with ballots, they just do "downloads".

Thats a game changer. Control the programming and you control elections.

a reply to: grandmakdw

With what proof? My Mother lived with me until she passed. When we voted, the names were in a book, listed alphabetically, placing her four names under mine. When you vote, they find your name and you sign next to a photocopy of your signature and are given a ticket. You then cast your ballot and bring the ticket back to the book, the ticket is torn in half, you keep half and half goes into a box. Your name is then highlighted and you are finished. I usually vote in the evening since I have to be at work before the polls open. In each of the last three elections my Mother's name has been highlighted, with a signature that is not even close to matching her's. The first time I was told that it was an error. The second time I tried to get a picture and was threatened with arrest. I have complained to the Office of Elections and was told that they would look into it.

There's no sense in going to the media. They are in the hip pocket of the same political party that rune the Office of Elections.

a reply to: JIMC5499
Not only do they vote in place of dead people, they vote in place of the living too.
I had a co-worker that went to vote in the last election along with his son, and they found that someone had already voted for both of them. They were allowed to vote, but there were at least two votes in that precinct that were 'extras'.

Wrong video....

sorry

a reply to: grandmakdw

Always vote by absentee ballot. My city now requires it actually but prior to the change I voted at home. That way I can take my time and read about what I'm voting for.

a reply to: grandmakdw

I vote in a township in SW Wisconsin, where I demand a paper ballot. I won't use the infernal machine....not even sure if it's a Diebold.

Sighs.............
does not mater what they use.
it will be the vote THEY wont!!!

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: vor78

I don't know if the machines are the same everywhere, but the ones in my area do produce a paper receipt of sorts that the machine retains as a 'paper trail'.

But what about your receipt so you can retain the paper trail instead of a "machine"?

Good idea, one receipt for you and one receipt for the polling station and the voter checks them before turning over the polling station copy.

As for privacy, the receipt doesn't have to have a name on it or identifying information, just so the person knows how their vote was recorded. The polling station can handle their copies of the receipts just as they do paper ballots, using them in case there is a reason to contest the election.

I always use the paper ballots.

It doesn't matter what a receipt says - when the votes a totaled farther up the chain the numbers can be changed. It would take everyone counting their votes again to assure of accuracy.

originally posted by: roadgravel
I always use the paper ballots.

It doesn't matter what a receipt says - when the votes a totaled farther up the chain the numbers can be changed. It would take everyone counting their votes again to assure of accuracy.

Can people in a polling place that uses machines ask for a paper ballot?

a reply to: vor78

There's never going to be 100% certainty unless you're willing to go that far.

If voting was done by ballot instead of programs then there would be no need for receipts. If there was a problem, then the hard ballots could be recounted. Thats the whole point to a hard ballot. They are preserved. Of course there is still corruption to a degree. Politicians aren't honest are they?

Point being [once you remove the hard ballot from the process there is no way to be sure a second time around because there are no ballots. Just programs.

Understand also. that the 'machines' 'electronic tally' are uploaded to other computers, too. Who's watching those "number crunchers"?

originally posted by: grandmakdw

originally posted by: roadgravel
I always use the paper ballots.

It doesn't matter what a receipt says - when the votes a totaled farther up the chain the numbers can be changed. It would take everyone counting their votes again to assure of accuracy.

Can people in a polling place that uses machines ask for a paper ballot?

Depends on the town, IM. Our town is small and has both paper (pencil mark in bubble) and some type of electronic. A person can choose to use either. I imagine either can be manipulated.

a reply to: grandmakdw

Can people in a polling place that uses machines ask for a paper ballot?

You don't get a receipt. Imagine the uproar if ATM machines didn't issue receipts?

Goes to show how people are duped. Voting representatives into office is the most important business of a "Republic".

They will make or interpret the laws you must abide by.

A receipt doesn't have to ID you personally, just match the vote in the system. That can be accomplished with barcode.

a reply to: grandmakdw

I will but that only means that it went in the machine correct or so it says, what happens once in the machine is another thing.

The idea of "recounts " mean nothing unless you ask the voter if the person marked on the ballot is who they actually voted for

...I wonder how that would work,

Also at the same time check to see how many times they voted and if there even a legal voter.

yes and if it is broken, will ask for another machine and if it is broken, will demand that they get an official from the state in to explain and fix it.