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Forgotten Human History

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posted on Oct, 31 2014 @ 02:21 PM
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You are right, the 1000 ton one is the unmoved one from the quarry.

However, there still are a lot of problems. You can't just add "they took a lot of years" as a simple answer. What about moving them into place perfectly? That's another counterargument.


originally posted by: Hanslune

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14

originally posted by: JohnnyCanuck
a reply to: Wolfenz
Ya know, most of this 'Forgotten Human History' meme is based upon 'Brown people can't build cool #'. Pity it's not recognised for what it is.



Not really. Some perhaps, like the pyramids. But the real questions about many places in ancient times comes from the difficulty for virtually all cultures at the time to build some of these things, based on average technology. Like Balbek in Lebanon. 1000 ton blocks. Showing perplexity about how they were moved in no way puts down ancient Phoenicians or Canaanites, but simply asks real questions: what culture of any kind back then were able to move those and how? How if it would be challenging now did anybody do that 2-4000 years ago.


Actually 800 ton, three of them and they probably took years to bring into place. The difficulty is why heavy stones like that were not moved very often. In ancient history about 40 really heavy stones were moved, that its. That covers a lot of different cultures and thousands of years of time.




posted on Oct, 31 2014 @ 03:00 PM
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originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14
You are right, the 1000 ton one is the unmoved one from the quarry.

However, there still are a lot of problems. You can't just add "they took a lot of years" as a simple answer. What about moving them into place perfectly? That's another counterargument.


Actually two of them and one in outline.

The actual method of moving the stones is not known of course but one can speculate on it. The only known facts are:

They were cut out of the quarry near the temple they were used to form a retaining wall for and they were moved an placed.

One idea

...and it probably took years to do



You can get an idea of what was needed by looking at how the Thunderstone was moved by the Russians and how the Romans (16th century) raised a number of fallen Roman (classical) obelisks they had taken from Egypt. The heaviest was the Lateran Obelisk which comes in at 455 tons. That was moved from Karnak in Egypt to Rome and erected in the 4th century/ re-erected in 1588.



posted on Oct, 31 2014 @ 04:55 PM
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originally posted by: SLAYER69
a reply to: JohnnyCanuck
Excuse me...
Most of my threads are very much on point about Brown People of various ethnicities being the ones who ARE the ones who built most those possible sites which are often over looked as contributing to humanity.
Johnny?
Really?

I was not attacking your thread, so I should have been more specific. My apologies for that. We are awash in Ancient Aliens fantasy and the attribution of monumental achievements in the ancient world goes too often to 'mysterious' peoples who subsequently disappeared, leaving the locals picking their noses in wonder. The very mention of Cremo in a thread gets me foaming at the mouth.

You've posted a well thought out premise. Sorry about the collateral damage from my comments.



posted on Oct, 31 2014 @ 05:10 PM
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originally posted by: 131415
2 words... Milankovitch Cycle

Yes the Milankovitch Cycle is indeed universally accepted - yet we have Glaciation occurring at the same time/rate in both the Northern and Southern Hemispheres. There is no generally accepted explanation of why the ice ages should be globally synchronized if they are driven by Milankovitch orbital fluctuations.


That's because the hemispheres were NOT synchronized in regards to glaciation as you claim.





Convenient that he apparently ignored his own findings to help meet an already erroneous Chronological theory by Penck-Bruckner. I guess when you simply take one site at 65degrees North and apply it to the entire planet its easy to reach these absurd assumptions.


Good thing that's not what was happening then.


In regards to tilt Milankovitch suggested the axis moved a half degree in a very short time period - yet procession explains that we only oscillate 2.2 degrees every 41,000 years. Am I missing something? Shouldn't we be experiencing enormous drops in Global Temperature at the same intervals every 26k years? Enough to recreate the last Ice Age?


If the orbit was circular sure, but our orbit is elliptical which means variation in how much and the intensity of solar radiation reaching Earth. Do you have a citation for Milankovitch suggesting that tilt shifted that far in such a shirt period of time?



Another note:

Temperatures 20,000 years ago in the Northern Hemisphere were at a Maximum 5-9 degrees colder then they are today. So if New York City is covered in Ice - and its average temp in Summer today is 24 degrees - that meant during the LGM it was 17 degrees Celcius - Whats the freezing point of water again?


Except that glaciation never reached as far south as NYC. Not even as far south as Albany.



Forgive me if I don't find any of this 'Plausible'


With the pick and choose method of which facts you're considering I can completely understand why you would find this implausible.



Also if were acknowledging orbits can change - why are we quick to assume that the Solar System has remained in its current state for 4.5 Billion years?


Nobody is acknowledging nor are the assuming anything in regards to orbits. The elliptical nature of orbits is easily discerned and once again, Milankovitch Cycles refer only to axial tilt.



posted on Oct, 31 2014 @ 05:43 PM
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originally posted by: peter vlar
Except that glaciation never reached as far south as NYC. Not even as far south as Albany.

Mmmm...that kinda jumped out at me as my first thought was the Finger Lakes. Here's an excerpt from a website:


Glaciation in New York State: New York has been through many periods of mountain building and uplift, separated by millions of years of erosion. One such period occurred in very recent geologic time, the Ice Age. In fact, it ended in New York only about 8000 years ago. The glaciers were about one to two miles thick, and they covered almost all of the state, except for a small section in Southwest New York, known as the Salamanca Re-entrant. The moving ice sheets scoured and rounded the Adirondack Mountains, and they dug out many deep "U-shaped" valleys, especially in the Finger Lakes Region. Glacial erosion is responsible for the fjord of the Hudson River. (Tides on the Hudson reach Albany). The huge ice sheets carved out the basins that became the Great Lakes (and the hundreds of smaller lakes found all over New York). Link



posted on Oct, 31 2014 @ 05:44 PM
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to maltese5...
a reply to: Maltese5Rhino
I am fascinated by the Hal Saflieni Hypogeum..in which 7000 skeletons of homo capensis were interred...when found in 1902. I cannot now find the Jesuit report or the Zammit report on line. and the book by Heindorff is not available either. two palentologists who saved two capensis skulls cannot be found either. now here is the current strangeness. Karen Hudes, 20 years the atty for the World Bank, refers to Capensis hiding in the Vatican and likely controlling the Vatican bank. what is your view on the Capensis...Hypogeum connection?????



posted on Oct, 31 2014 @ 05:52 PM
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a reply to: JohnnyCanuck

I stand corrected. I thought it was the reverse, that while they did reach down near the fingers lakes in central ny but the Hudson Valley from a little north of Albany was clear. Thanks for posting that. I knew that meltwAter erosion gave us the Hudson River but didn't think glaciation reached this far South(I'm currently a little north of Albany). That's what happens when I trust my memory and don't brush up on the facts with some due diligence.
edit on 31-10-2014 by peter vlar because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 31 2014 @ 06:45 PM
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What a great story you wrote again..But in those days I wonder if you saw a stump of wood floating in the water wouldn't a Neanderthal understand that if something floats on water you can cross that water ???



posted on Oct, 31 2014 @ 06:55 PM
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a reply to: darkstar57

That is a weird one. And I never heard of this "homo capensis" before.

I'm drawn back to the bushmen again out of fascination



posted on Oct, 31 2014 @ 07:10 PM
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originally posted by: peter vlar
a reply to: JohnnyCanuck

I stand corrected....That's what happens when I trust my memory and don't brush up on the facts with some due diligence.
no problem. I've hit the stage where my memory is tweaked...and I go look it up. Did some local radio and TV for an event I held recently...my only hope was serious caffeination!



posted on Oct, 31 2014 @ 08:09 PM
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originally posted by: nukedog
a reply to: darkstar57

That is a weird one. And I never heard of this "homo capensis" before.

I'm drawn back to the bushmen again out of fascination


There's a reason you've never heard of "H. Capensis". That's because it doesn't exist. The nomenclature came about as a result of misinterpretation of data related to skull fragments found in the Transvaal about 100 years ago. It resurfaced in 2008 under the name "Boskop Man" in a Discovery a article about a book inferring that Boskop man had brain capacity almost 50% larger than ours and lived from 10,000-30,000 years ago. It was written by 2 reknowned neurologists but they had no expertise in Anthropology or Archaeology so they were attempting to draw paralels that simply didnt exist in the fossil record. People like David Icke have also run wild with it to create fantastic tales in order to sell books.

johnhawks.net...

discovermagazine.com...

scholar.google.com...
edit on 31-10-2014 by peter vlar because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 31 2014 @ 09:44 PM
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originally posted by: 0bserver1
What a great story you wrote again..But in those days I wonder if you saw a stump of wood floating in the water wouldn't a Neanderthal understand that if something floats on water you can cross that water ???


Most certainly. The biggest glitch in the puzzle is that the most likely source of material for potential boats would be wood and there is pretty much zero chance of anything remaining of them after tens and tens of thousands of years, there is certainly anecdotal evidence that strongly suggests that HNS were using boats approximately 100,000 years ago. We refer to their tool making culture as Mousterian and Mousterian tools have been found on the coastal Greek islands of Kefallinia and Zakynthos. Neanderthals must have crossed the water for their tools to end up there. Te alternative is that they were amazingly impressive long distance swimmers but I believe its far more likely that they used boats or some other form of floatations to cross expanses of open water as there is evidence for this on other islands as well such as Crete for example.

news.discovery.com...



posted on Oct, 31 2014 @ 09:56 PM
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Thanks for the facts. I'm still fascinated by the bushmen though.

Anyway, I'm just going to throw this into the ring for dissertation since I'm feeling kind of good right now.

I've never subscribed 100% to the Clovis trans Siberian migration. I'm sure it happened but I think other things were going on. This all started with Graham Hancock's book, "Finger Prints of the Gods," being digested at an impressionable age. I never bought that 100% either. Not sure I finished it.

Long story short, I have the happy lot in life of being a laborer for the past 15 years. One year, at the end of a shovel in Florida, I ran into a crew of Tzotzil Indians. Pronounced "Soat-Seal."

What struck me as odd, was that to me, they had predominately Asian features. The eyes mainly. Also their general build and most importantly, the way they spoke. Their native tongue is not Spanish. I don't think these guys hardly knew any Spanish. I probably knew more Spanish than them. When they spoke though, it sounded like a bunch of Asian gibberish. Quite fascinating.

So in synopsis, I believe people have traveled to the Americas by boat. For a very long time.



posted on Oct, 31 2014 @ 10:39 PM
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a reply to: nukedog

Well native Americans are of Asian descent. When I worked in Merida I dealt with crews of Maya who didn't speak Spanish very well, I used a lot of mime t o show them what to do, I did pick up words in four different dialect of Maya (I believe there are about 30). There were a few educated ones and one in particular seem to think the Yucatan Caste Wars were something that happen last week (this was in 76-78).

The theory that people came down the west coast of Americas by boat is well established, it explains how they could have gotten around the ice blockages in western Canada and the early dating of some site in SA.



posted on Oct, 31 2014 @ 10:43 PM
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a reply to: Hanslune

Sweet. Did you notice their eyes were a little bit asian? Not to be a racist, but between that and the general sound their language produced I was immediately speculating.



posted on Nov, 1 2014 @ 01:07 AM
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a reply to: peter vlar










]

Most certainly. The biggest glitch in the puzzle is that the most likely source of material for potential boats would be wood and there is pretty much zero chance of anything remaining of them after tens and tens of thousands of years, there is certainly anecdotal evidence that strongly suggests that HNS were using boats approximately 100,000 years ago. We refer to their tool making culture as Mousterian and Mousterian tools have been found on the coastal Greek islands of Kefallinia and Zakynthos. Neanderthals must have crossed the water for their tools to end up there. Te alternative is that they were amazingly impressive long distance swimmers but I believe its far more likely that they used boats or some other form of floatations to cross expanses of open water as there is evidence for this on other islands as well such as Crete for example.





 Don't forget Gibraltar,  and one of the Aegean islands produced auchelean tools from stone that came from another island.

 There is also a cave on the mainland in Greece, that is only accessible by water that had a long term Hsn occupation.

   

 The idea that we swam, in some cases up to 40 miles in shark infested waters, is one the most rediculous notions that modern anthropology has tossed out there.

Oh, yah and swam back with a bag of rocks too.

HE made to Indonesia Hf made it to Flores. 

 There is a good article out there by a guy who is making the case that HE hitched a ride with elephants, or were inspired by watching elephants swim between islands.

   HE was a pretty crafty guy, I wouldn't put it past them to come up witn a reed raft, or some such fiber based craft. And since Hsn had a whole slew of gouge type carving tools in his bag so I think a dug put is certainly within the realm of possibility.

 There is a really good documentary that follows two indigenous Panamanians as they hiked into the mountains to choose a log for a canoe. They would start going by up going river, then a creek, following the drainage, up the hill to find a already fallen tree. 

 Then they spent a couple, three weeks carving and digging out the trunk. Then when it was done they waited till it rained, which was essentially every day, and then pushed it down the hill to the creek, a distance of about 1/4 mile.  It was pretty impressive.



 And a little about reed boats, as built by native Californians,




Boats, rafts, and walking were the Yokuts’ main forms of transportation.  Before the settlers came, they had no horses, so they carried everything they used or needed. They walked wherever they needed to go.

If they were near a river or a lake, they made a boat and used it for transportation. The boats and rafts were made from tules that grew near lakes and rivers.  They were able to hold two to four people or sometimes more. 

The Yokuts made the boats in spring and early summer and built them upside-down.  They dried and hardened the poles of the boat over a fire.  That made the poles strong and practically waterproof.The boats were sometimes 50 feet long, 10 feet wide, and four feet deep.

 

 www.tularecountyhistory.org...

   

Fifty feet is pretty good sized, enough to carry a family unit.

  Reed boats are a perfect example of a materials dictates form engineering solution. If your materials are similar, reeds and such, then what you build from the will have the same forms to do the same task.

 


edit on 1-11-2014 by punkinworks10 because: (no reason given)

edit on 1-11-2014 by punkinworks10 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 1 2014 @ 01:16 AM
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I would add HSN in Malta too

HSN tooth in Malta

Note the date of the paper.



posted on Nov, 1 2014 @ 01:29 AM
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originally posted by: JohnnyCanuck
a reply to: Wolfenz
Ya know, most of this 'Forgotten Human History' meme is based upon 'Brown people can't build cool #'. Pity it's not recognised for what it is.



Who to Say.. of whom Built/Erected these Sites around the Ancient World

Tho It has Amazing Similarity's Oceans to land Locked Apart ( Mountain Blocked ) Apart



Speaking of Turkey and The Piri Reis Map

This is Quite interesting of Easter Island and Gobekli Tepe Similarity's of a Connection



Wonder why? , Maybe the Ancient's have been there Before. as Sumerians, Turkish, Egyptians,
and Lost all Knowledge of building methods , that We Ourselves have Difficulty of duplicating Today in Our Own Modern Technology .


[Nice Hypothesis]

Sun Language Theory
en.wikipedia.org...

Sumerian language
www.britannica.com...

SUMERIAN AS A DIALECT OF TURKISH (DINGIR, BILGAMESH, TUR, UTNAPISHTIM)
By POLAT KAYA
www.polatkaya.net...

All Roads Lead to Ancient Sumar/Turkey ?

Just Maybe they were just the Helpers ( Laborers ) of Building these Structures .. and that's All
and They were not the Designers nor the Foreman's .. Or Perhaps They Learned fro Another Advanced race
of How To Construct , but eventually Lost the Passing Down of that Knowledge .. to becoming primitive yet again.



As For Myself Having 2 Races within me There is Similarity's of
My Indigenous Roots of the New World To The Old World

Iroquois Mohawk - Norseman similarity's and Northern Cree - Laplander aka SAMI Culture

Like iF it was a One World Civilization in the Arctic Circle
Hell Even the SAMI and Mohawk & Cree Language Dialect is the Same

Around in this Clip of a Movie Call Pathfinder a Norway Laplander ( SAMI ) Movie

Go to the Mark 1.12 and the Dialect you hear is close to the Mohawk & Cree Dialect
not much of the Language but how words are pronounced

Pathfinder (1987) Bear Dance


They are not Native Americans But SAMI


Mohawk Longhouse inside


Norse Longhouse inside



posted on Nov, 1 2014 @ 02:48 AM
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originally posted by: Hanslune

originally posted by: Wolfenz


Okay explain why there were stone age tribes in Africa, New Guinea, Asia and the Amazon up to the modern era?

Answer the advance of man is not dependent on his just being modern man but is due to other causes.

its what is claimed ( At First ) by The U.S. Navy Hydrographic Bureau in 1953


Hapgood simply made that up he made up lots of things. Below is an image the black outline is the world the purple one is what the Piri Reis map shows






The Choosing of Isolation .. What is it that you want me to explain.. I need some detail here .. your speaking about Primitive Tribes ?? Well Just about all the places that has Advance unexplained Technology we have here in the Old and New World there is primitive People Nearby that We all know there is No way that these People have Made these Wonders , Architecture .. Listen How about Explaining me where is the Blue Prints or any slightest Idea of How the Pyramids, Temples, Ziggurats, Runs of Puma Punku were Built .. There were Pockets of being "Advanced Sentients" in the Niches you Know Beings that have that ABILITY too,,,, Wonder, That are Curious eager to learn to Advance themselves for a better Life ... Who to Say that there were, High advanced Intelligent Beings quarter of a Million years ago ... a Close Nit Community .. Different from the Others like themselves in intellect. Advancing progressing at every moment ..


My comments were made to counter your claim that modern man must advance, obviously not all modern HSS did.

Blue prints were not invented then, they went by eye and experience, something craftsmen of today still use, Dhows in Arabia are still made solely by eye.

Now could there have been others, smart other long ago? Yes - have we found any evidence for them? No. Is there any evidence for a lost civ of HSS, not yet.


Explain a the Cookie Cutter Molds Pattern of the H Blocks in Puma Punk in Peru Bolivia.


Master craftsmen with the tools available in soft stone.


You Really think a primitive Stone- Brass age Tribes with No Written language ( Inca ) ( unlike the Mayans ) built these H Blocks Earch one by Hand ?


No I don't they were most probably made by the Tiwanaku who existed well before the Inca, yes by hand what other way can you carve stone?



or it was in a Press fitting Mold , with some advancement of softening Stone some how some way to Form the Shapes of the Ha Blocks that Resembles a a Toy Lego, Stackeable , Puzzle interlocking Building Block. Yup Feats like that Yet still in the Brass Age.. Where are Tools To Build/Make them ? Seam like they left the Work Site with all there tools.. ok... but where they go.. Who are they ? and your Saying its Primitive Natives that done the Job .. Just Like Egypt , Just Like Ankor Watt , There were Primitive Tribes Nearby the area


Angkor Wat is many things but it origin is not particularly mysteries. You don't like the Tiwanaku theory? Then ask your own question about the X civilization that you seem to believe made them, no tools, no language, no nothing but rocks and these rocks surrounded by evidence of another culture that had a long and fruitful history of very good stone masonry.

Kinda makes you wonder



1) ok ... Ahh Isolation perhaps.. Haven't advanced as keeping the Simpler Life.. Nothing to Make them Curious of Wonder. ? but most are Now Self Aware in Modern Africa , New Guinea of what Surrounds them it Like the Amish living the way they do the Fear of Corruption of Technical Advancement Considered to them Evil the Same People that Still think they are Witches in Africa same as Islamic Fundamentalists extremist in views of Woman & Western Life yet in The Ancient Arabic World was the Heart of All Knowledge ( Before 900 A.D. ) a Downgrade.. Ignorance of themselves Because of Religion...

2) Hapgood made that up What Claims that insisted that he did ?




Well from 500 year old Goat Skin Map made with a collection Ancient Maps
not so bad in Accuracy i would say.. So The World didn't change in water Levels , Land Mass from 2,000 to 3,000 years ago? as we are Seeing Now from Melting, Ice caps or Long Drought's around the World within the last 10 years

Tho the P.R. Map is showing Islands that doesn't exist in modern day middle of the Atlantic
and about the North America.. and for the Antarctica Could of been closer or Reis wasn't sure how Long or how far the Land of Antarctica was ,.. just maybe

We are Talking about a Map that is from a Collection of Ancient Maps, let Alone.. this is only a Portion of the P.R. Map. The Map as it Looks has been Ripped Way from a Much Larger Map.. A 500 Year Old Map around only 21 years since Columbus Discovered the New World ... Anyhow what about other similar Old Maps of the 16th Century ( 1500's) Showing Antarctica.. Showing the Outline of what it really is as if No Ice was on the Continent? That we only have found out since the 1950s


3) Blueprints yeah of Course nothing of the Source of how they could of been built, Just from the word of Mouth Only nothing written.. not even a single Mosaic of a Painting. Showing the Construction.. nor history of the Teachings, I Still say there is a lot of precise Measurements in Puma Punku. Not By Eye..

4) I tend to disagree of each H Blocks done By Hand Far to Many to be Identical with no Mistakes. and if there was some mistakes where are they ? Carved ? what tools could of they used in the Brass Age.. for this Feat?

I Still say done in a Pattern Like Shape Mold like a Press Mold ..




5) Dont like the Tiwanaku Theory ? what do you Mean !




Angkor Wat is many things but it origin is not particularly mysteries. You don't like the Tiwanaku theory? Then ask your own question about the X civilization that you seem to believe made them, no tools, no language, no nothing but rocks and these rocks surrounded by evidence of another culture that had a long and fruitful history of very good stone masonry.


Yeah and Who are these People where did they come from .. These Sea People .. These Outlanders..
Yet there is a Few Similarity's from Puma Punku to the Old World a Large Iron Staples holding blocks together
Similar Corner Blocks, Similar Precised Blocks that you can not place a sheet a paper or a Razer between them

Speaking of Similarity's, Here Something to check Out , Similarity's between the Old and New World

Artefacts, Atlantis and the route to the sea
www.atlantisbolivia.org...



posted on Nov, 1 2014 @ 05:49 AM
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a reply to: SLAYER69

Following the end of the ice age, sea levels began to rise rapidly.

Then between 14,000 and 12,000 ya, the rise in sea levels began to slow down with the onset of the 'younger dryas' or little ice age.

Following the Younger Dryas, there was a sudden surge in sea levels rising once more, with sudden flooding and inundations of settlements.

During the surges, levels rose by an estimated 28 - 30 meters...probably the origin of the worldwide flood legends.

These surges would have resulted in the lakes and massive swampland areas in Northern Africa and caused the heavy and regular downpours in the region.

The deserts would have boomed in a relatively short time, and where there's abundant vegetation, there's going to be plenty of animals.

My personal theory is that while evidence suggests Humanity migrated out of Africa, there's also evidence to suggest it wasn't the only, or indeed the first migration either out of or into Africa.

There may have been several exoduses from and retreats back towards Africa by Humanity and our close cousin Hominids.



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