Graphic Video Released in “Firing Squad” Style Police Killing of Milton Hall

Reading thru posts before work and this popped out

its bs . At twenty feet you can win with a knife IF gun owner has to draw and cock said gun

Not if you are already drawn down on said knife wielder

no excuse for this at all

Don't even try

I'll be back later to reply more

mythbusters on said duel

reply to: mindseye1609

a reply to: snarky412

I thought the whole purpose of having a police K9 present was to attack and take the suspect down BEFORE resorting to having to use guns

There clearly was a dog present and there was no excuse for this execution style incident to happen

Again, you can second guess the decision but there are obviously reasons that decision was made.

I am against sacrificing the life of the service dog. You know the guy is armed with a knife and will use it against the dog if the dog is released. Once the guy started stabbing the dog, he would have been shot. So, we have the same result only we have sacrificed the life of the dog.

My thoughts and prayers go out to his family

Instead of sending my thoughts and prayers, I would have a few questions for the family.

Hall's family said that he had a history of mental illness.

CNN

First, why did you allow your family member's mental illness to progress this far without intervening? Why did you not take steps to address your family member's mental illness before it came to this point?

I would hold the family MORE accountable for the way this situation ended then the police. The family knew he had a mental illness and failed to address it. The police just had to deal with the result.

a reply to: snarky412

I thought the whole purpose of having a police K9 present was to attack and take the suspect down BEFORE resorting to having to use guns

There clearly was a dog present and there was no excuse for this execution style incident to happen

Again, you can second guess the decision but there are obviously reasons that decision was made.

I am against sacrificing the life of the service dog. You know the guy is armed with a knife and will use it against the dog if the dog is released. Once the guy started stabbing the dog, he would have been shot. So, we have the same result only we have sacrificed the life of the dog.

My thoughts and prayers go out to his family

Instead of sending my thoughts and prayers, I would have a few questions for the family.

Hall's family said that he had a history of mental illness.

CNN

First, why did you allow your family member's mental illness to progress this far without intervening? Why did you not take steps to address your family member's mental illness before it came to this point?

I would hold the family MORE accountable for the way this situation ended then the police. The family knew he had a mental illness and failed to address it. The police just had to deal with the result.

a reply to: butcherguy

If there was a case where demonstrations were called for... it is this one.

Anyone who demonstrated because of this would completely lose any credibility.

And, this happened two years ago.

originally posted by: areyouserious2010
a reply to: butcherguy

If there was a case where demonstrations were called for... it is this one.

Anyone who demonstrated because of this would completely lose any credibility.

And, this happened two years ago.

Note that I used the word... 'were'.
Also note that I said demonstrations.... not rioting, just to be clear.

a reply to: MysterX

And once the public, righteously infuriated and outraged about these seemingly arbitrary civilian murders, do indeed rise up and fight back, then we all know what happens next...

I would agree with you.

One problem though. This was not a seemingly arbitrary murder. The guy was armed with a knife and there is a clear series of events that led to the police shooting the man.

Try getting off of ATS and talking to regular everyday people. Ask them what they think about this incident. You may get a spectrum of responses, but the majority of which will not find total fault with the police.

a reply to: areyouserious2010

clear series of events

that happened after the first shot.
Like the rounds fired after he fell and continued even though he was immobile.

a reply to: tadaman

Jesus. That IS a firing squad.

It's not a firing squad. The formation the police are in is standard for a shooting situation. They form an L so as to avoid shooting each other.

originally posted by: bringmecoffee
a reply to: Another_Nut

As a cop, I try to look at these stories with the perspective of one. Violence is ugly but sometimes it is necessary, but should be used as a last resort. In this case, it looked to me like they were just waiting for any excuse to light that poor guy up. A knife is a lot more dangerous than most people realize, and the safe reactionary gap is big, but this is just ugly.

There is no excuse..plain and simple .. the criminal cops are out of control in America ..
This is why is it VERY IMPORTANT for American citizens to be armed to the teeth .. the establishment IS against the people they swore to protect ...
At least he would have taken out one of those coward pigs ..

a reply to: ScientiaFortisDefendit

No taser? No beanbag rounds? They went directly to lethal force. It is murder, sorry.

Were the officers equipped with these weapons? Believe it or not, not every officer carries these weapons.

The decision to use a taser is the decision of the person equipped to use the taser. If the person equipped to use the taser makes the decision not to deploy it in this situation, then so be it.

The reasons being:
1. The 21 foot rule. Google it. It is the tested and demonstrated fact that someone armed with a knife, within 21 feet, can close the distance and begin attacking you so quickly you do not have time to react before they are on top of you.

2. Tasers have an effective range which is relatively close to the person. That would mean closing the distance with a person who is wielding a knife, standing in a threatening manner and making threats towards the officers. It also means putting yourself between a guy with a knife and other cops with guns who may decide to shoot said guy. If an officer CHOOSES to take that risk then fine. If not, who are you to say he MUST take that risk.

3. Tasers are not 100% effective. If the shot misses or is not effective, the guy now has a police officer close enough to strike against.

It is not murder. When you call incidents like this murder, you remove legitimacy from that title when speaking of excessive force by police.

a reply to: areyouserious2010

Every cop there unloaded their weapon into this guy. "Excessive force" doesn't even come close to what this is.

a reply to: areyouserious2010

1. The 21 foot rule. Google it. It is the tested and demonstrated fact that someone armed with a knife, within 21 feet, can close the distance and begin attacking you so quickly you do not have time to react before they are on top of you.

You are still blowing off the fact that the officers had their guns out of their holsters and aimed at the individual that supposedly had them in fear of their lives or safety.

originally posted by: ScientiaFortisDefendit
a reply to: areyouserious2010

Every cop there unloaded their weapon into this guy. "Excessive force" doesn't even come close to what this is.

I saw excessive use of force, but I believe there were two officers that did not fire their weapons. I am not certain of that, but I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt on that, after watching the video repeatedly.

a reply to: Another_Nut

Tell that to the army personnel that emptied entire mags of 9mm ammo into rushing tribesman only to be impailed by spears.

Tell that to the officers who have emptied entire mags of .40 into some asshole who's juiced up on PCP only to get their face bitten off.

Adrenaline and other substances will carry an assailant through sometimes, if you come in contact with these problems almost daily you too would be a little more ready to defend against a knife weilding man with intent to do harm.

You may claim "use bigger ammo with more stopping power"... Well now you have less shots to deal with a charging suspect... Hope you can channel your inner John Wayne and Clint Eastwood before the crazy man rampages unaccuarately to you face with his knife.

The big question asked is why didn't he drop his knife when he had a line of officers ready to fire? Intent to do harm is the only answer. Mental illness has been used as an excuse but a mentally ill man with a knife can kill just as easily as a mentally competant person with a knife.

I saw the myth busters and just like the classroom laser tag exercise its flawed. Real life and death situations flow differently. A shooter isn't going to be as accurate if he is busy thinking about some dudes hunting knife digging in through his ribs... And a knife weilding person might be a little more evasive/resilient if its a real life a death situation.

a reply to: butcherguy

Do you think that they all had to shoot?

That depends. The justification to shoot cannot simply be "because the other cop started shooting." Each officer would have to articulate the threat they perceived that made them start shooting. In the video, the guy begins to move towards the officer one or two steps. Whether this is because he was moving in to attack or because he stumbled towards the officers, this does not matter. The officer perceived this as a threat and opened fire.

Two cops did not fire their weapons. This is not evidence of a "bad shooting." Just because one cop perceived an incident differently than another does not mean the officers that fired were wrong and the officers that did not fire were right. It is each individual officer's perception at the time of the incident.

Do you think that the majority of the rounds fired were fired after the man was no longer standing?

Even if a few rounds were fired after the man had fallen, it takes a fraction of a second for the brain to realize the guy is no longer a threat and send the message to stop shooting. In a fraction of a second, one could fire one or two rounds. Multiply that by eight officers.

Was he a threat after he was lying on the ground?

No. Read above.

It get why they had to fire 47 rounds... I think. It is because they are very poor marksmen. I practice at 21 feet sometimes. When you shoot bowling pins with a handgun at 50 yards, it makes 21 feet seem easy. I practice with moving targets too.

You can practice all you want. You are practicing accuracy.

What you are not practicing is accuracy under immensely stressful conditions. You could shoot 100%, every time without fail, at the range. But on average, when put under stress, your accuracy will fall greatly.

a reply to: butcherguy

Now who is speculating?

I'm not speculating. The backdrop is reasonably clear.

Mind telling me how you can tell there isn't a driver in those trucks directly behind the victim?

You can't, but that doesn't mean the backdrop is not reasonably clear.

If you have to shoot someone, very rarely will you find a 100% clear background. Everyone who needs to be shot does not find the nearest brick wall or hill to stand in front of.

A person, armed with a handgun, would have trouble hitting a target as far as the truck under non-stressful conditions if you consider bullet drop and wind conditions.

It is a reasonably good backdrop.

I am part time homeless and live in Saginaw. This is now another reason I wish I could relocate to better living and where there is Jobs.

Don't worry everyone, according to the badge lickers here its only a small percentage that are bad, you can rest assured that 5 out of the 6 must of been the good ones.
Actually interestingly we probably have a realistic ratio with 2 cops not firing.

The Civil Rights Division of the U.S. Department of Justice, the U.S. Attorney’s Office for the Eastern District of Michigan and the FBI announced their joint decision on Feb. 25.

“After a thorough investigation, federal authorities have determined that this tragic event does not present sufficient evidence of willful misconduct to lead to a federal criminal prosecution of the police officers involved,” a news release stated.

Cowards. So much for the feds caring about anything but big business and war. Free pass, next victim please.

Isn't one cop shooting him enough? Yeah, I know, all of them want in on the action.