Graphic Video Released in “Firing Squad” Style Police Killing of Milton Hall

a reply to: areyouserious2010

Good choice on your name. That phrase comes to mind nearly every time I read one of your posts. Considering your history on ATS, though, maybe BendOverBackwardstoDefendPolice would have been more appropriate.

Don't misunderstand; good cops deserve all the defense one can muster. But the officers in this video are not good cops, be it due to piss-poor training or simply lack of moral fiber. Good cops only kill as a last resort, and are trained to control their fire -- even when facing a middle aged man with a 3" pocketknife, from twenty feet away.

One example of your reaching (and failed) logic which stuck in my mind after reading 9 pages: you say the outcome would have been the same had the K9 been released. If that's true, then why do police even have attack dogs? If it's the same as shooting a perp, why bother with a dog? Bullets are much cheaper.

Fact is, K9 units are used as a non-lethal weapon. The dogs are trained to grab an arm and hold on while officers move in to restrain. I think you already know that, but it wasn't convenient for you to admit. That would mean admitting the police had not exhausted all non-lethal options.

All of the pertinent points have been made in this thread, but you quickly respond with the zeal of a prosecutor and the evasiveness of a politician. You will surely reply to this post as you have all the rest, by picking it apart and refuting every detail that can be spun in favor of the police. I won't play that game with you, though. If any readers find themselves swayed by your disingenuous arguments, they need only watch the video again to be reminded of the apalling truth. It is plain as day.

Please don't take this as a personal attack. Yours just happen to be the loudest, and most unsound, opinion in the thread.

a reply to: Another_Nut

I posted this # on my facebook page.
Sorry effing bastards.
The chief should be hung.

a reply to: Tusks

i dont know what to say . i did too. it deserves notice. forget Brown. this is what should make people outraged

so many good replies. im reading through them atm. just got off work and this thread has taken off

for obvious reasons

its amazing people are defending this

making the cops out to be scared little boys

im haveing a hard time hearing anything but

"Hes comming right for us!"

ill be back after ive caught up

a reply to: OpenMindedRealist

Good choice on your name. That phrase comes to mind nearly every time I read one of your posts. Considering your history on ATS, though, maybe BendOverBackwardstoDefendPolice would have been more appropriate.

We are getting off to a good start. I have nothing to hide. If you would have bothered to look at some of my history, you would see that in some instances I am critical of the police.

Don't misunderstand; good cops deserve all the defense one can muster. But the officers in this video are not good cops, be it due to piss-poor training or simply lack of moral fiber.

And you are the authority on which police are good and which are bad? I make my argument and leave that up to the reader.

One example of your reaching (and failed) logic which stuck in my mind after reading 9 pages: you say the outcome would have been the same had the K9 been released. If that's true, then why do police even have attack dogs? If it's the same as shooting a perp, why bother with a dog? Bullets are much cheaper.

Fact is, K9 units are used as a non-lethal weapon. The dogs are trained to grab an arm and hold on while officers move in to restrain. I think you already know that, but it wasn't convenient for you to admit. That would mean admitting the police had not exhausted all non-lethal options.

I stand by what I said in reference to letting the dog loose.

Use of force can jump from one point all the way up to deadly force instantly when confronted with deadly force. A police officer does not have to exhaust every step in between.

You can second guess the decision not to let the dog loose. But I don't think it was unreasonable for the officer to decide not to. Just like with a taser, another less lethal tool, the officer is not required to try using the dog before shooting the guy.

In my opinion, the officer would have let the dog loose, the guy would have stabbed the dog and the police would have shot the guy. Same result, needlessly dead service dog.

People here have talked about deescalating the situation. Maybe the officer felt letting the dog loose would escalate the situation and force the other officers to shoot the guy to defend the dog? I don't know. Without hearing the officer's justification we may never know.

I do know one thing, the fact that the K9 officer did not attempt to use the dog does not make the shooting "murder" or an "execution."

All of the pertinent points have been made in this thread, but you quickly respond with the zeal of a prosecutor and the evasiveness of a politician. You will surely reply to this post as you have all the rest, by picking it apart and refuting every detail that can be spun in favor of the police.

I don't see where I have been evasive. In fact, I take all argument head on and support my position with sources.

I won't play that game with you, though. If any readers find themselves swayed by your disingenuous arguments, they need only watch the video again to be reminded of the apalling truth. It is plain as day.

Yes, pay no attention to the man who is making sense. Your initial, emotional, reaction was correct because here we hate the police no matter what they do.

If you are claiming I am fooling people with cunning and some sort of sleight of hand, I think you underestimate the reader.

Please don't take this as a personal attack. Yours just happen to be the loudest, and most unsound, opinion in the thread.

It is kind of hard not to take it as a personal attack when you claim I am "disingenuous," "evasive," and resort to the name calling tactic in the first few sentences.

And what makes my opinion unsound? It does not match your's?

This is a vulgar display of power and just straight murder.

I sure hope Mr. Hall has a family or some other advocate to fight for him and gets these killers put behind bars...where they belong.

Sick.

a reply to: Another_Nut

i dont know what to say . i did too. it deserves notice. forget Brown. this is what should make people outraged

What makes the Brown incident less notable than this one?

What makes this incident more outrageous than the Brown incident?

a reply to: Another_Nut

Over the past few months I have seen many treads of this nature.

It would seam that the media has got many Americans afraid of Terrorists, if I where there I would be much more afraid of the USA authorities.

These polices officers should all be waiting the lethal injections on death row.

a reply to: bringmecoffee

Why is it that it's always assumed the guy holding a knife is a masterclass knife fighter? Most idiots with knives don't even know how to properly hold them. I mean I could understand if the guy was ex armed forces he'd be a large threat, but some mentally ill old guy?

Violence is never an answer; an eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind.

a reply to: areyouserious2010

I assure you I was attacking the message, not the messenger.
But I wasn't trying to persuade the messenger, either.

As I said before, I have no desire to debate details with you. You assert that the deceased was posing imminent deadly threat to the officers, and I insist that he would have needed to be within a few yards to pose such a threat. We will only continue to disagree from there.

It seemed to me that they continually used the dog to antagonize the man (maybe to keep his attention on that dog and officer). But was there no other plan in motion by the other officers to counter (flank and stun, etc)?

a reply to: DestroyDestroyDestroy

except for the last person standing

Maybe we should give them a net gun, or perhaps train them in the use of a lasso? Bah just more crap that will get in the way when they go for their Glocks, shotguns, or AR's.

Another day, another public police execution. Pretty bad that it took 47 shots, and about half of those were fired as the guy fell or was already on the ground, although if I've ever seen someone die in a threatening manner that had to be it. You can see the bullets start to hit the ground around him as he curls up dying they are still shooting at him but hitting the ground right behind where his body is as he shrinks down smaller and smaller.

a reply to: DestroyDestroyDestroy

Why is it that it's always assumed the guy holding a knife is a masterclass knife fighter?

You don't need to be a masterclass knife fighter to kill someone with a knife. They are sharp and pointy. We are soft and squishy.

It seems my government has picked up a few nasty habits from it's last great enemy over there in Europe. The US has been steadily militarizing our local, county, state, and federal law enforcement agencies (because hey, the contracts, not to mention the stockpiles of that war machinery that we no longer need has to go SOMEWHERE, right?) for quite a few years now.

It's already public record, I've seen it posted here before. NO SMART COPS. Read it for yourself and prepare to meet face and palm

Court OKs Barring High IQs for Cops

a reply to: Ensinger23

This is a stupid argument. Cops have a higher than average IQ. There will be some dummies and there will be some smarties.

That case doesn't mean that departments actively seek morons. It means that some don't want to hire people that are essentially overqualified (and don't have to). It's like McDonalds not wanting a guy with a law degree. He'll be out the door before he's worked long enough to justify the training.

originally posted by: Domo1
a reply to: DestroyDestroyDestroy

Why is it that it's always assumed the guy holding a knife is a masterclass knife fighter?

You don't need to be a masterclass knife fighter to kill someone with a knife. They are sharp and pointy. We are soft and squishy.

Ok, so the guy gets a cop with the knife. He maybe bleeds a bit, nothing a trip to the hospital can't fix. It's a dangerous job, they know what they signed up for. Oh, but no, can't let the wussie cops get a scratch or break a nail. Better to just straight up murder the suspect, 10 heavily armed cops to one guy with an xacto knife. Yeah, not even a real knife. A little razor knife that you use for arts and crafts.

originally posted by: halfpint0701
Between these six and the cop who opened fire at the gas station, how lucky are these jack&^%$ that no one has blown up anything with all the missed shots?

The shots went somewhere. Since they don't seem to be too concerned about their background, I'd imagine at least some went into houses/businesses in the area.

originally posted by: WP4YT

originally posted by: Domo1
a reply to: DestroyDestroyDestroy

Why is it that it's always assumed the guy holding a knife is a masterclass knife fighter?

You don't need to be a masterclass knife fighter to kill someone with a knife. They are sharp and pointy. We are soft and squishy.

Ok, so the guy gets a cop with the knife. He maybe bleeds a bit, nothing a trip to the hospital can't fix. It's a dangerous job, they know what they signed up for. Oh, but no, can't let the wussie cops get a scratch or break a nail. Better to just straight up murder the suspect, 10 heavily armed cops to one guy with an xacto knife. Yeah, not even a real knife. A little razor knife that you use for arts and crafts.

I agree. I was stabbed once with an exacto knife so i have the authority to say it's really not a big deal. Once in the arm, straight in and out it wasnt a slash which could've been worse. Best part is i was a teenager (15-16) and i didnt even go to the hospital. I walked a mile to my house holding a paper towel over it lol. If i wasnt scared enough not to fight someone with an exacto knife as a teenager, what does this make these police? I dont think i'm any kind of rambo bad ass or anything like that, just saying if an average teenager can handle it just maybe trained-to-kill police should be able to as well????

PS: I won, and only got hit once with the knife before making him drop it. Kicked his ass, went home and my parents never even knew it happened. It was just kids # to me ya know, fighting people with razor blades on the railroad tracks Nothing to call the cops about lol.

a reply to: WP4YT

Ok, so the guy gets a cop with the knife. He maybe bleeds a bit, nothing a trip to the hospital can't fix.

OK tough guy. Everybody bleeds. Hit the right spot and people bleed fast. Bleeding fast is not good. It is bad.

Hospitals can't fix everything.

It's a dangerous job, they know what they signed up for. Oh, but no, can't let the wussie cops get a scratch or break a nail. Better to just straight up murder the suspect,

They sign up knowing that in certain circumstances they are allowed to defend themselves with lethal force. A guy coming at you with a knife is a "maybe". Maybe he will cut you or stab you in a place that will kill you. I can't think of anywhere that would convict someone of a crime for killing an attacker with a knife.

Better to just straight up murder the suspect, 10 heavily armed cops to one guy with an xacto knife.

Completely agree that this was a disgusting display. I was responding to one comment in a long thread. I didn't say the police were justified. I said you don't have to know what you're doing to kill someone with a knife.

My first post in this thread simply said "disgusting". This was disgusting. My calling out an idiotic statement about people needing to be pro knife fighters to hurt or kill someone in no way suggested that I was siding with the police.

Don't be a moran.

ive tried writing three replys now..

and they have all come out wrong.

t&c trumps all

and i just cant do it without violating one or more

to those who justify this death i feel sorry for you

to those who see this for what it is, get ready

it wont be long