Lawyer for Fort Kent nurse says she "WON'T" abide by quarantine

originally posted by: Jainine
a reply to: jtma508
You yelled - She DOES NOT HAVE THE VIRUS.
Response - That can't be said until the quarantine is up.

You asked - Virus' have motivation?
Response - Inherent evolutionary replication.

Again - the bottom line is that she is not clear of the virus until the 21 day incubation period is up. Her behavior is selfish and, frankly, appalling for a person who is supposed to be caring about others.

Here is what the New England Journal of Medicine has to say on Ebola and Quarantine:
Ebola and Quarantine

Health care professionals treating patients with this illness have learned that transmission arises from contact with bodily fluids of a person who is symptomatic — that is, has a fever, vomiting, diarrhea, and malaise. We have very strong reason to believe that transmission occurs when the viral load in bodily fluids is high, on the order of millions of virions per microliter. This recognition has led to the dictum that an asymptomatic person is not contagious; field experience in West Africa has shown that conclusion to be valid. Therefore, an asymptomatic health care worker returning from treating patients with Ebola, even if he or she were infected, would not be contagious. Furthermore, we now know that fever precedes the contagious stage, allowing workers who are unknowingly infected to identify themselves before they become a threat to their community. This understanding is based on more than clinical observation: the sensitive blood polymerase-chain-reaction (PCR) test for Ebola is often negative on the day when fever or other symptoms begin and only becomes reliably positive 2 to 3 days after symptom onset. This point is supported by the fact that of the nurses caring for Thomas Eric Duncan, the man who died from Ebola virus disease in Texas in October, only those who cared for him at the end of his life, when the number of virions he was shedding was likely to be very high, became infected. Notably, Duncan's family members who were living in the same household for days as he was at the start of his illness did not become infected.

Emphasis is mine...

So the current science is clear on this. You are not contagious until after your fever breaks. So far only the 2 nurses in Dallas have caught the disease and that is consistent with what is known about this disease. In order to stem the tide in West Africa we will need to send tens of thousands of healthcare workers to West Africa. Since we know this we should let the medical professionals self monitor and then report when and if they get a fever. This is what the science says and not let our fears take our liberties away.

She's using DWB guidelines which are not necessarily those of the CDC either. So 17 DWB staff have gotten sick and 9 have died. How're those guidelines working out for them?

a reply to: tavi45

You've never met my mother. My mother has a Narcissistic personality disorder. She's very, very selfish and can behave like a psychopath quite a bit. However, she also does a lot of very good things because it reflects well on her, feeds her sense of self importance and concept of her being this very giving person. At the same time, she can also be downright freaking evil. I could give scores of examples of both the "look how wonderful I am" behaviors in conjunction with behaviors that are not public and tend to horrify the crap out of people. Now I don't know if Hickox is a Narcissist or not. I don't personally know the woman but thinking that person can do nice thing A while being very selfish in situation B is NOT cognitive dissonance inducing. Thanks, Mom, for teaching me very well that you really cannot judge a book by its cover.... lol

Meanwhile

US troops returning from Ebola missions to be kept in supervised isolation for 21 days, US Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel says - @AP

a reply to: blargo

Yea, the PCR test is pretty good to check when people's viral load has dropped after treatment but not all that great to catch the disease prior to symptoms. The ELISA method is preferred for that:

EIAs for IgG and IgM antibodies directed against Ebola (EBO) viral antigens have been developed and evaluated using sera of animals and humans surviving infection with EBO viruses. The IgM capture assay detected anti-EBO (subtype Reston) antibodies in the sera of 5 of 5 experimentally infected animals at the time they succumbed to lethal infections. IgM antibodies were also detected in the serum of a human who was infected with EBO (subtype Reston) during a postmortem examination of an infected monkey. The antibody was detectable as early as day 6 after infection in experimentally infected animals and persisted for

As a small biz owner I wouldn't appreciate high risk HCWs breaking quarantine in my place. So far they're not spreading ebola, they're spreading fear of liability for business owners.

Biz is damned if they do/don't. The bowling alley had to clean everything just in case. Seats/carpets from two airplanes were ripped out. The bridal shop, the restaurant Nancy Snyderman visited, a cruise ship, two schools and several apartments were all closed/cleaned.

How many passengers, residents, workers, customers and establishments were financially/personally inconvenienced but a handful of HCWs are entitled to run amok/disregard all the expense/hoopla surrounding them?

It's not fair biz owners are being victimized by high risk HCW's need to socialize/get on with life. Whether the risk to the public is real or imagined, businesses are left to clean up the mess/pacify the public. They can't be so cavalier, customers want assurances and it comes at a cost.

Even if they do the clean up, will customers rush back to the ebola bridal shop, E-bowl-a-lanes or ebola cruises etc.? Not sure our biz could survive closing the doors, there would be no assurances we wouldn't lose income/customers. Might be a win for socially starved HCWs but businesses will lose big time.

a reply to: FlyersFan

Wow. I just looked this up on Friday, taking care to get the most recent numbers. Wonder if that means these numbers are rising faster now too.

Nope...no warm fuzzies here.

ETA: I specifically looked BECAUSE of Spencer too. Hmm.

a reply to: MrLimpet
Oh, my. Why am I not surprised?
Yet I can't help but wonder why she is milking her situation for publicity.

IMHO, monitoring for an elevated temp is a crude way to determine if a person is contagious. Let's say they have a slightly elevated temp. Viral load aside, they may not as infectious, but they're still infectious. In general (not always), adults tolerate fever well, so it can be a poor indicator of any disease process, but it's a mediocre diagnostic tool of a level-4 biohazard. I should think that any HCW wouldn't quibble with the 21-day period. Again, just my opinion. But I wonder how many citizens would want to be in close contact with someone who'd just returned from a West Africa hot zone? The CDC, CNN, and the WH keep stressing how difficult it is to contract this virus. How about eating in a restaurant at the same time a recently-returned HCW is eating? (Begs the question: why would a HCW even do that?)
I wouldn't be keen to visit the public restroom right after Nurse Kaci.

originally posted by: Morningglory
..............Even if they do the clean up, will customers rush back to the ebola bridal shop, E-bowl-a-lanes or ebola cruises etc.? Not sure our biz could survive closing the doors, there would be no assurances we wouldn't lose income/customers. Might be a win for socially starved HCWs but businesses will lose big time.

E-Bowl-A Lanes. What a snappy name for a business!

a reply to: ~Lucidity

Then there are the additional HCW not associated with DWB.

Around the globe, about 400 health care staff have contracted Ebola, and more than 230 have died.

Anyone know the number of HCW employed by DWB and the total number of HCW that a working in the Ebola infected countries? Curious to know the % of HCW that have contracted the virus.

[url=http://www.forbes.com/sites/dandiamond/2014/10/15/ebola-has-already-killed-more-than-200-doctors-nurses-and-other-healthcare-workers/]source[/url ]

originally posted by: WhiteAlice
a reply to: tavi45

You've never met my mother. My mother has a Narcissistic personality disorder. She's very, very selfish and can behave like a psychopath quite a bit. However, she also does a lot of very good things because it reflects well on her, feeds her sense of self importance and concept of her being this very giving person. At the same time, she can also be downright freaking evil. I could give scores of examples of both the "look how wonderful I am" behaviors in conjunction with behaviors that are not public and tend to horrify the crap out of people. Now I don't know if Hickox is a Narcissist or not. I don't personally know the woman but thinking that person can do nice thing A while being very selfish in situation B is NOT cognitive dissonance inducing. Thanks, Mom, for teaching me very well that you really cannot judge a book by its cover.... lol

Are you my long lost sister?

Excellent explanation of how this selfish arrogant nurse can be acting this way.

She could have gone and not actually been in contact with any ebola patients, put herself in a position of doing administrative duties for her stint there.

Now, feeling deprived of her accolades here on U.S. soil, is throwing a classic hissy fit.

I know I would feel better if that was the case. But, her actions are setting a horrible example for other returning health care workers.

Des

a reply to: MrLimpet

Yep. As I've mentioned many times in these hallowed threads, total HCW mortality is at about 4%-5% of all the ebola deaths.

And early on it was "puzzling" the WHO/CDC/DWB. Now though? Don't worry about it.

a reply to: drwill

If I was a patient in a health care facility in her neck of the woods, I wouldn't let her get near me. Not even to get my weight or bp.

Of course, how often she does that while under the employ of the CDC I have no idea.

I hope her boyfriend, being a nursing student, will make sure she abides by it. But something tells me she's bound and determined to do what she wants, regardless.

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

I just think we are setting a dangerous precedent in forcing quarantine on citizens who are not proven to be infected. This gives the state power to force any resident to be locked up somewhere (even if it's in their own home) on whatever basis they deem a person to be a potential threat to the community. Now you're talking about Minority Report stuff (we think you might commit a crime in the future, so we are going to lock you up now).

It also gives them even more motivation to do things like ban guns and monitor all citizens "for the good of the community".

Of course there is also the problem of scaring off the health care workers who are considering going over to West Africa.

Telling her she has to check in with health officials daily (multiple times a day) regarding her health status - I have no problem with. Telling her she is locked up until "they" deem her no longer a threat - dangerous.

a reply to: dianajune
ITA.
And, Team Kaci is supported by Washington VIPs and media big-mouths.
(I'm starting to wonder if, during her brief sojourn in W. Africa, she truly did any "hand's on" work. I wonder if she's pretty darn sure that she hasn't been exposed to Ebola. Otherwise, she's endangering her MeMeMe publicity campaign.)

a reply to: Destinyone

lol, maybe....Given the same situation, I could see my mother doing the same thing and she gets quite vicious if somebody says or even remotely behaves negatively towards her. Her boss changed on her years ago and the new one was cool with her. Oh the emotional chaos that ensued...everything the new boss did was a total persecution of my mother. A person like that is great when you're on the outside and you think she's great. And just like you said, you don't give them the accolades/praise/proper amount of gratitude for who she is, it's persecution time and screaming to the high heavens.

Sounds like you have had a Narcissist (possibly your mother, too) in your life as well. My deepest condolences. It's bad enough to have a mother with the tendencies of a psychopath but to have them be viewed as "wonderful" by so many? It's like twisting the knife in.

originally posted by: MrLimpet
a reply to: ~Lucidity

Then there are the additional HCW not associated with DWB.

Around the globe, about 400 health care staff have contracted Ebola, and more than 230 have died.

Anyone know the number of HCW employed by DWB in Ebola infected countries?

[url=http://www.forbes.com/sites/dandiamond/2014/10/15/ebola-has-already-killed-more-than-200-doctors-nurses-and-other-healthcare-workers/]source[/url ]

Any stats on how many of those workers passed the disease to other people not associated with West Africa?

a reply to: kaylaluv

What part of putting someone in quarantine only after they are symptomatic being idiocy are you not getting exactly?

quar·an·tine
ˈkwôrənˌtēn/Submit
noun
1.
a state, period, or place of isolation in which people or animals that have arrived from elsewhere or been exposed to infectious or contagious disease are placed.

Do you not understand what a quarantine is or is for? They don't have to be showing symptoms. They have to be segregated from the general population until cleared.


Duncan was showing no signs of the disease. Until he was.

The doctor currently ill in NYC was showing no symptoms. Until he was.

It's 21 (in my opinion should be more) days. Get over it.