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What is acceptable proof of GOD?

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posted on Oct, 31 2014 @ 10:25 AM
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If you want to explain the word created, we need to established what the word really means (or what do you want the word to mean). Because we can give 2 meanings.
1. creation - to create something "ex nihilo" or "out of nothing".
2. creation - to make something that do not existed before; example to make a car, a pair of sunglasses, etc.

I'll use the number 2 (and that still will get me to number 1).
- Even if everything came from something already existing or matter already existing; we still have to answer "from where that matter came from?, or "how that matter came to appear?".
Matter is made from atoms, atoms are made from protons and electrons, those ones are made of quarks and leptons, then we have the Higgs Bosom. But still we have to ask, from where did they came from? Just out of nothing?

Then ask yourself what is the nothing. Can you explain nothing? There is no way to explain nothing, because as soon as you try to, your are making it something.
- In order to say that there is nothing, you need a reference of something to compare to.

We cannot said evolution, because evolution still raises the question.

We are left with the ALL.

In the beginning was the NOTHING. If the NOTHING can exist, then the NOTHING was probable. If the NOTHING was probable, then too, ALL the possibilities. In a finite instant these 2 forces (Nothing and All), interact with each other, creating the singularity. From there exist this universe and everything in it and the law of the opposites.
edit on 31-10-2014 by Abednego because: (no reason given)




posted on Oct, 31 2014 @ 10:40 AM
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a reply to: Abednego

technically speaking, scientists have never really isolated a point in space/time where literally nothing existed. there has always been "something"...though not necessarily a something as in a BEING.



posted on Oct, 31 2014 @ 12:05 PM
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originally posted by: TzarChasm
a reply to: Abednego

technically speaking, scientists have never really isolated a point in space/time where literally nothing existed. there has always been "something"...though not necessarily a something as in a BEING.


That's exactly the point. there is no way to scientifically measure that BEING, because He is immeasurable. Science has given the universe a possible age, based on how far is the farthest star (but, is it really the farthest star?).
The more sophisticated our measuring instruments get, the more questions will arise.

Adding to the subject; Quantum theory says that there is more than 1 dimension. So in the event that the theory can be verified, the question will still be the same. How they exist, why they exist and WHO made them and for which purpose?



posted on Oct, 31 2014 @ 12:21 PM
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a reply to: Abednego

I guess Im inquisitive enough to not jump to "oh it was a god" if I don't know the answer at this very moment.

There is a theory the big bang was a result of a presure 'leak' from another universe. or dimension. Either way, plumbing isn't a god, I'll bide my time instead of bowing down and mumbling a prayer to some universal plumbing issues.


(post by BlackManINC removed for a manners violation)

posted on Oct, 31 2014 @ 12:25 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Oct, 31 2014 @ 12:29 PM
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a reply to: Abednego


That's exactly the point. there is no way to scientifically measure that BEING, because He is immeasurable. Science has given the universe a possible age, based on how far is the farthest star (but, is it really the farthest star?).
The more sophisticated our measuring instruments get, the more questions will arise.


"immeasurable" are you sure you are not confusing inability with mere refusal?

its easy to say something is untestable or unmeasurable because that gives you the comfort of believing without the inconvenience of actually having to provide a rational basis for it.



posted on Oct, 31 2014 @ 12:49 PM
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originally posted by: zazzafrazz
a reply to: Abednego

I guess Im inquisitive enough to not jump to "oh it was a god" if I don't know the answer at this very moment.

There is a theory the big bang was a result of a presure 'leak' from another universe. or dimension. Either way, plumbing isn't a god, I'll bide my time instead of bowing down and mumbling a prayer to some universal plumbing issues.


I totally agree with you. There is no way to know at this moment. However I know by experience, of the existence of spiritual beings..

Now I can give you an example of how a being can exist without knowing, then realizing it exist and therefore beginning the creation.
- Is something we see in nature everyday. The clue here is consciousness.
- A baby does it know that exist? The answer is no. He sees and ears things but he does not realizes what are they. When he is hungry he cries and food comes. Then he start to see his surroundings, but still do not understand. Later he discovers his hands, still does not know what are they, but soon he discover that those hands are part of him, and learn to manipulate them to reach and grabs. Then he start to notice his parents react differently, depending of the noise he makes. And then get conscious, he start to manipulate stuff with his hands because he want to, he gain control of him. And of his parent, he learn that he can manipulate them.

So as soon as we acquire consciousness, we acquire the ability to control, to manipulate, to create (in our minds).The more highest our consciousness level we get, the more able to create we get.

Remember what I said about the ALL? Hermes Trimegistus said:
God is the ALL, HE is the ABSOLUTE, HE can not be divided. And if HE can not be divided, how do we exist? The answer is simple we exist in HIS mind, we are a product of HIS mind, therefore in the mind He can create anything from nothing.
We were made in HIS image; so we too can create in our minds a whole new world, out of nothing.

Like a Matrix.



posted on Oct, 31 2014 @ 12:57 PM
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a reply to: Abednego

the problem when someone brings up spiritual beings is that the difference between a stray mutt and an omen sent by the gods is pure perception. similarly the difference between a dimension-hopping extraterrestrial with no more contextual significance than a time-traveling government agent is pure perception.

short version being that your spiritual entity might just be a wandering civilian from another dimension and not really any kind of "spiritual representative" or authority. my point is that "spiritual" might just be another word for "i saw this really weird thing the other day and it made me appreciate the universe and its mysteries".

which is a LONG shot from saying "hey i met god".

also...


God is the ALL, HE is the ABSOLUTE, HE can not be divided.


by applying a gender, you have effectively divided god. by saying "the universal manifestation of ultimate being expresses itself as predominantly male" you have excluded what some refer to as the "divine feminine".

way to be promote sexism through spirituality.
edit on 31-10-2014 by TzarChasm because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 31 2014 @ 01:06 PM
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originally posted by: TzarChasm
a reply to: Abednego


That's exactly the point. there is no way to scientifically measure that BEING, because He is immeasurable. Science has given the universe a possible age, based on how far is the farthest star (but, is it really the farthest star?).
The more sophisticated our measuring instruments get, the more questions will arise.


"immeasurable" are you sure you are not confusing inability with mere refusal?

its easy to say something is untestable or unmeasurable because that gives you the comfort of believing without the inconvenience of actually having to provide a rational basis for it.


Refusal will be to take the easy route and simply deny the existence of anything. Do you believe that life exist beyond this planet? How can you prove it? Those sightings of UFO's or extraterrestrial beings could be from here, and ET's mere form of evolutionized humans.

Inability is a word that not even a scientist will use, they will find a way to measure and prove something. The fact that we cannot measure or prove something does not means that it don't exist. Galileo said that the world was not the center of the universe, and got prison for that.

There is an interesting theory, I think is called the string theory. Basically says that every particle is composed of strings, each strings vibrates at an specific frequency. Depending on the vibration is the matter it creates. Still raises the question of what or who make the string to vibrate.



posted on Oct, 31 2014 @ 01:22 PM
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originally posted by: TzarChasm
a reply to: Abednego

the problem when someone brings up spiritual beings is that the difference between a stray mutt and an omen sent by the gods is pure perception. similarly the difference between a dimension-hopping extraterrestrial with no more contextual significance than a time-traveling government agent is pure perception.

short version being that your spiritual entity might just be a wandering civilian from another dimension and not really any kind of "spiritual representative" or authority. my point is that "spiritual" might just be another word for "i saw this really weird thing the other day and it made me appreciate the universe and its mysteries".

which is a LONG shot from saying "hey i met god".

also...


God is the ALL, HE is the ABSOLUTE, HE can not be divided.


by applying a gender, you have effectively divided god. by saying "the universal manifestation of ultimate being expresses itself as predominantly male" you have excluded what some refer to as the "divine feminine".

way to be promote sexism through spirituality.


I'm well aware of everything you said. And yes, you are right that there is really no way to tell. All is relegated to a personal experience.
As for the use of HE, when referring to the GOD, is not about gender, is in the general use of the word. I'm very fond to the divine feminine aspects.



posted on Oct, 31 2014 @ 01:27 PM
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originally posted by: Abednego

originally posted by: TzarChasm
a reply to: Abednego


That's exactly the point. there is no way to scientifically measure that BEING, because He in

Refusal will be to take the easy route and simply deny the existence of anything. Do you believe that life exist beyond this planet? How can you prove it? Those sightings of UFO's or extraterrestrial beings could be from here, and ET's mere form of evolutionized humans.

Inability is a word that not even a scientist will use, they will find a way to measure and prove something. The fact that we cannot measure or prove something does not means that it don't exist. Galileo said that the world was not the center of the universe, and got prison for that.

There is an interesting theory, I think is called the string theory. Basically says that every particle is composed of strings, each strings vibrates at an specific frequency. Depending on the vibration is the matter it creates. Still raises the question of what or who make the string to vibrate.


You claim that there is no way to scientifically measure God. Well good, because if you can put God under a microscope, then that`s not the one true God of the Bible who is beyond measurement. What you are speaking of is an impostor who refers to itself as imaginative vibrating "string theories" and "evolved human like E.T".


edit on 31-10-2014 by BlackManINC because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 31 2014 @ 04:45 PM
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a reply to: Abednego


Refusal will be to take the easy route and simply deny the existence of anything. Do you believe that life exist beyond this planet? How can you prove it? Those sightings of UFO's or extraterrestrial beings could be from here, and ET's mere form of evolutionized humans.


if asked such questions, i just say i dont know. its the most honest answer i can give. another honest answer would be that i hope someday science penetrates the mystery.


Inability is a word that not even a scientist will use, they will find a way to measure and prove something. The fact that we cannot measure or prove something does not means that it don't exist. Galileo said that the world was not the center of the universe, and got prison for that.


maybe im wrong, but i thought it was a general rule that if something exists, that denotes the capacity to be measured.


There is an interesting theory, I think is called the string theory. Basically says that every particle is composed of strings, each strings vibrates at an specific frequency. Depending on the vibration is the matter it creates. Still raises the question of what or who make the string to vibrate.


maybe it just cycles energy. ive heard that the big bang was effectively a leak from another universe or dimension. yay, lets all worship plumbing.



posted on Oct, 31 2014 @ 04:54 PM
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originally posted by: Abednego

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: Abednego


Jesus didn't write that. That was written multiple generations after Jesus allegedly lived by someone who never witnessed Jesus saying anything. In fact, there isn't an iota of contemporaneous documentation (ie. historical evidence) proving that Jesus ever lived.

Just believe in God? Why?


Because there is more to this world than just this.
We are what we are because we are conscious beings, we know we exist, don't just live to survive. We add purpose to everything we do. Dogs and cats (and any other form of life here on Earth), they just exist, they don't add a purpose to what they do. Ask you this:
1. Do you eat just because you are hungry or because you like what is on the table?
2. Do you have sex just to procreate and keep the species or because you love your partner?

I live the life I have because I know that I'm more than just flesh and bones.


You are making assumptions about dogs and cats that you simply can not prove. I can't speak for cats, but I can assure you that dogs have food preferences and often eat just because they like a particular food. How have you not noticed that? Dogs absolutely feel and express love. It's unfortunate that you've never earned the love of a dog. You have no idea what goes on in the minds of non-human animals. The more we learn about them, the more amazed we are by their capabilities. Do try to keep up with something other than self-worship of your own species.



posted on Oct, 31 2014 @ 04:57 PM
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originally posted by: Abednego

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: EaglesFan

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: EaglesFan
a reply to: deadeyedick

How about you show me the human being that created everything inside and outside of the Universe... Solve that before you question the existence of God.


How about you show me a supernatural deity who can create anything.


I can't and I'm happy to admit that.. It depends what you believe God actually is. Some believe a superhuman entity waving his magic wand somewhere, others just the creator of all things with no form/body etc and I am one of those people when it comes to the 2nd one.

Now maybe there is something outside the Universe and the Universe is just the body of God but those are questions that no-one can probably answer.. All I know is that Humans did not create themselves and something did give us the ability to think, speak, listen and the rest... If something can put that into a body then I don't see why there wouldn't be similar in the spiritual realm or body also. We just need to think a bit harder when it comes to this topic, it's all we can really do.


Definitions are part of the problem but I see no point in altering the meaning of a a well-established word. Choose another word. Make up one if you have to.

You're assuming that humans were created and given the ability to think, speak, listen, etc.. There's simply no evidence for that. Of course that need not prevent you from believing it. As you suggest, we can only think a bit harder and, preferably, out of the box.


You want evidence? You are already thinking, speaking and listening. What other evidence you want? Even from a scientific perspective, we humans evolved from an inferior life form, we gain the ability to do all that stuff by seeing, imitating.


I suggest that you get a better education before you expound on things you obviously know little about. That which you think is evidence is wishful thinking. Your reasoning is faulty.



posted on Oct, 31 2014 @ 05:05 PM
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originally posted by: Tangerine

The word I am quarreling with is CREATED. I'm surprised you didn't understand that. There is nothing about my being able to think, speak or listen that proves CREATION. Evolution yes. Creation no.


Well it could be Creation yes also.. Even the concept of Evolution was created from somewhere and without a Creation/creator evolution simply wouldn't exist.

Now the creator of everything doesn't have to be a human, even an alien, it could be the scientific explanation of the Big Bang for all we know but assuming the Big Bang is the absolute answer to how the Universe became, everything that we can do came from that lifeless or inanimate event and if something we consider non-intelligent or lifeless can put intelligence into a physical body somewhere down the track after that initial event then we can only wonder if what we have can also exist in the spiritual realm/body/dimension without taking form in a physical/visible body and in our plane of existence..
edit on 31-10-2014 by EaglesFan because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 31 2014 @ 07:24 PM
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originally posted by: Abednego

If you want to explain the word created, we need to established what the word really means (or what do you want the word to mean). Because we can give 2 meanings.
1. creation - to create something "ex nihilo" or "out of nothing".
2. creation - to make something that do not existed before; example to make a car, a pair of sunglasses, etc.

I'll use the number 2 (and that still will get me to number 1).
- Even if everything came from something already existing or matter already existing; we still have to answer "from where that matter came from?, or "how that matter came to appear?".
Matter is made from atoms, atoms are made from protons and electrons, those ones are made of quarks and leptons, then we have the Higgs Bosom. But still we have to ask, from where did they came from? Just out of nothing?

Then ask yourself what is the nothing. Can you explain nothing? There is no way to explain nothing, because as soon as you try to, your are making it something.
- In order to say that there is nothing, you need a reference of something to compare to.

We cannot said evolution, because evolution still raises the question.

We are left with the ALL.

In the beginning was the NOTHING. If the NOTHING can exist, then the NOTHING was probable. If the NOTHING was probable, then too, ALL the possibilities. In a finite instant these 2 forces (Nothing and All), interact with each other, creating the singularity. From there exist this universe and everything in it and the law of the opposites.


You really need to familiarize yourself with science before making proclamations about what scientists claim. Who said there was nothing? That's your claim. Prove it.



posted on Oct, 31 2014 @ 07:26 PM
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originally posted by: Abednego

2. Do you have sex just to procreate and keep the species or because you love your partner?



If you think most people have sex most of the time because of love, you are as out of touch with human motivations as you are with science.



posted on Nov, 1 2014 @ 01:38 PM
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originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: Abednego

2. Do you have sex just to procreate and keep the species or because you love your partner?



If you think most people have sex most of the time because of love, you are as out of touch with human motivations as you are with science.


that's not to say that love-induced sex is a myth...far from it...



posted on Nov, 1 2014 @ 02:22 PM
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originally posted by: EaglesFan

originally posted by: Tangerine

The word I am quarreling with is CREATED. I'm surprised you didn't understand that. There is nothing about my being able to think, speak or listen that proves CREATION. Evolution yes. Creation no.


Well it could be Creation yes also.. Even the concept of Evolution was created from somewhere and without a Creation/creator evolution simply wouldn't exist.

Now the creator of everything doesn't have to be a human, even an alien, it could be the scientific explanation of the Big Bang for all we know but assuming the Big Bang is the absolute answer to how the Universe became, everything that we can do came from that lifeless or inanimate event and if something we consider non-intelligent or lifeless can put intelligence into a physical body somewhere down the track after that initial event then we can only wonder if what we have can also exist in the spiritual realm/body/dimension without taking form in a physical/visible body and in our plane of existence..


Is energy lifeless? I wonder.



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