Real or Myth: There's a system of "prejudice" against white Americans?

Can you have a Black Caucus for politicians? Yes
Can you have a White Caucus for politicians? No

Can you have a Black Pride Parade? Yes
Can you have a White Pride Parade? No

a reply to: Petros312

IMO it's a bit more akin to....

White people are just loosing their privilege. They've had it for generations and of course they feel 'persecuted' when they realize they just aren't going to get stuff because of the color of their skin.

I think it's quite funny. As a white guy myself, I do enjoy watching the less socially initiated react when somebody checks their privilege for them.

~Tenth

a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

SO ,never heard of the MIDDLE EAST,NORTH KOREA,or SERBIA in the 90S?
THEY seemed to have a few issues that one could say would be a BIT BEYOND America.

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
NO it's just a fad with the first black man in the White House,and the fact HE himself is an activist. ONCE he goes the skin thing will fade and we can get back to just all being Americans again.

I hope you're right, but I see his activism as being fostered by others like Sharpton and Jackson and Maxine Watters and the NAACP and the like. I don't think that we'll all hear a magical *poof* when his tenure is up and things will level off. I think that he simply was the harbinger of a new era of severe racial divide. I'm not sure what will fix it, but I don't think it'll die just because he's out of the oval office.

a reply to: tothetenthpower

You know, subscribing to the belief of "white privilege" is part of the problem. "White privilege" has evolved into "white guilt," which is what has helped flip the coin of prejudice and racism to reverse the cancer instead of helping rid society of the cancer altogether.

I'm not naive enough to think that prejudice and racism will ever go away, but the fact that, right now in America, our federal and local governments are actively legislating prejudiced and race-based laws into our lives and the MSM is constantly stoking the ignorant flames of race-driven issues (currently, it's Ferguson, MO) is the proof that there is a state-sponsored "anti-prejudice" movement that, in reality, is creating "reverse prejudice," as some people may call it.

You can chuckle at the situation all you want, but the reality warrants more attention than just laughing it off as a 'loss of white privilege,' because that's not an accurate description of the issue at all. And, quite honestly, it mentalities like yours that perpetuate societal problems instead of help solve them--kicking your feet up with a box of popcorn and watching the show does nothing constructive, but if you're happy reveling in that reality, so be it, but I would challenge you to show me an average person who expects something in life because of their white skin. If they do, that's a form of racism, not some sort of privilege.

originally posted by: SlapMonkey
a reply to: tothetenthpower

You know, subscribing to the belief of "white privilege" is part of the problem. "White privilege" has evolved into "white guilt," which is what has helped flip the coin of prejudice and racism to reverse the cancer instead of helping rid society of the cancer altogether.

I'm not naive enough to think that prejudice and racism will ever go away, but the fact that, right now in America, our federal and local governments are actively legislating prejudiced and race-based laws into our lives and the MSM is constantly stoking the ignorant flames of race-driven issues (currently, it's Ferguson, MO) is the proof that there is a state-sponsored "anti-prejudice" movement that, in reality, is creating "reverse prejudice," as some people may call it.

You can chuckle at the situation all you want, but the reality warrants more attention than just laughing it off as a 'loss of white privilege,' because that's not an accurate description of the issue at all. And, quite honestly, it mentalities like yours that perpetuate societal problems instead of help solve them--kicking your feet up with a box of popcorn and watching the show does nothing constructive, but if you're happy reveling in that reality, so be it, but I would challenge you to show me an average person who expects something in life because of their white skin. If they do, that's a form of racism, not some sort of privilege.

I have to agree. "White privilege" is a myth and an ignorant stereotype roughly on par with the myth and stereotype that all African Americans live in "da hood."

originally posted by: mrpotatoe27
What is that [white] privilege? It the privilege of being the most likely to get hurt or die in a workplace accident, the privilege of being unable to get adequate mental health help, the privilege of being turned away from homeless shelters and domestic abuse shelters (A man could NEVER get psychically or mentally abused), the privilege of being sent off against my will to fight in a foreign land, the privilege of being unfairly treated by the legal system, and the privilege of being blamed for every bad thing ever done in history against a non white group.

And in response someone said:

originally posted by: Tangerine
There are parts of your story that don't ring true or, perhaps, are incomplete. I believe food stamp benefits take into account how many people are in the family and living expenses (someone correct me if I'm wrong). I also remember reading that food stamps can't be used for prepared, hot food, which would rule out most fast food.

I think you're mostly just feeling sorry for yourself and skin color has nothing to do with it. I say that because you mixed in a number of things having nothing to do with skin color (ie. gender, mental health care, and serving in combat zones. As for the latter, I think the percentage of non-whites is higher than the percentage of whites per population).

I just wanted to say 1) I find no evidence, at least where I live, that social services are discriminating against white males (it's a system based mostly on household income, not ethnicity), and 2) I think it is the case that some unfortunate individuals have been in situations where someone who had some degree of authority just happened to do something unkind, and then from this the individual who was maltreated begins to overgeneralize about a whole institution in terms of racial or gender prejudice. It's not really fair to generalize from one case unless valid statistics that pertain to a larger population support it.

Someone above said:

originally posted by: tothetenthpower
IMO it's a bit more akin to....

White people are just loosing their privilege. They've had it for generations and of course they feel 'persecuted' when they realize they just aren't going to get stuff because of the color of their skin.

I think it's quite funny. As a white guy myself, I do enjoy watching the less socially initiated react when somebody checks their privilege for them.

And to reinforce this, I'd like to call attention to something I read recently that can be found here:
Why Reverse Racism Isn't Real

Before you condemn the title of her article, try to understand WHY the author (who is African American) is saying reverse racism (i.e, prejudice against whites) is not real:

"When a white person starts talking about reverse racism, what they’re really doing is derailing a conversation to make it about them. Their white privilege leads them to believe that what they say both matters and needs to be heard and is important and the conversation should stop to focus on their perceived ills. You know what? When somebody is talking about racism they have experienced, that conversation is not all about you, nor should you expect it to be, so stop with the derailing and just listen and learn.

When white people complain about experiencing reverse racism, what they’re really complaining about is losing out on or being denied their already existing privileges. And while it may feel bad to realize your privilege is crumbling and the things you’ve taken for granted can be taken away from you, it is unfair, untrue, and disingenuous to call that experience reverse racism."

I admit her language is too overgeneralized (e.g., "when a white person starts..." as if in every case), but she's not saying all white people do this. If I look beyond her language just for a moment, I think what she means is that there are white people who have a perception of prejudice against whites because they are not aware of the privileges they've had until they start to loose them. There are privileges that have become the social norm in such a way that many white people are not even aware of what these privileges are anymore because of how deeply they've been embedded into conventional culture. Instead of agreeing that prejudice against African Americans still persists, these white people jump at the chance to begin to talk about a systemic form of racism that they believe exists towards white people because of the well-known struggles of a minority group. In other words it's a form of defensiveness in a situation that you would think calls for empathy -- to put yourself in the shoes of someone who is in a minority group, but no. The white people who do what the author above is talking about are more interested in shedding light on some new form of prejudice that they suggest resulted from the awareness of prejudice against African Americans.

If you have to ask: What exactly are these white "privileges" assumed to be the social norm, then that's a fundamental part of the problem.

Before somebody tells me I've been "indoctrinated," I strongly suggest you Google "privileges of being white" to see what some African Americans have put on the list.

originally posted by: tothetenthpower
a reply to: Petros312

IMO it's a bit more akin to....

White people are just loosing their privilege. They've had it for generations and of course they feel 'persecuted' when they realize they just aren't going to get stuff because of the color of their skin.

I think it's quite funny. As a white guy myself, I do enjoy watching the less socially initiated react when somebody checks their privilege for them.

~Tenth

None of that is even remotely true.

"White privilege" for starters doesn't even exist in any manner other than the benefits any one else derives from interaction within any other Ethnic, Religious or Race based system.

In other words Christian communities will always have charities for other Christians locally, if your Wasp, Jewish or Mormon and you encounter others of your kind in business deals will be made on a handshake, if your Asian or Hindu Indian your going to get help with business loans and visas and things of that nature.

Those things are the real "privileges" and they haven't diminished one bit, in fact i'd say the harder the push the more organizations react to "helping their own"

So what is the loss of white "privilege" ?

The cops being instructed and given draconian laws and trained to just bust everybody for dumb stuff? And what is the reality of it? When did Irish Americans or any other people... you know the "white N words" as they were traditionally called have it easy until they formed their own fraternal organizations, mafias and business alliances...

If you want to be real about the subject... "African Americans" in actuality have never gotten together as a community and really done a particularly good job in numbers of establishing "privilege" boosting organizations and communities for themselves, I don't think "white privilege" is real in society in any way beyond the most pathetic examples, like today you might encounter a Black woman at the DMV who wont just pass you through the line if you have a one minute piece of paper work or a Hispanic cop who pulls you over and doesn't just "overlook" that piece of MJ... but that is in all reality about changing demographics and the "privilege" goes with, again, almost every religion, race or culture when dealing with ones own.... is there at all times for everyone.... except African Americans who use this buzz word "white privilege" to complain about benefits others get in relation to one another not because it's "so real" but rather because up until recently and still... they have done a lousy job at support systems within their own communities...

There will always be white kids with trust funds, arab kids with oil money, mormons and christians doing business with each other, jews only buying food from each other of bs kosher rules (same for Islamics), Asian sponsored business loans etc, etc et al....

The real issue is why do so few African Americans give each other privilege, and the reality is that is changing, that's what miffs anyone if anything does at all, truth is step by step there is starting to be support within that community, always was churches in your Baptist arenas particularly, they have some power from the govt now, not to stereo type but sports and music has created an "upper tier" that can inherit off money into the community and there are brothers who it would be "good to know"

Truthfully, an attack on white privilege" is genuinely racist, it's essentially telling "white trash" they don't have the right to "get things" from friends family and neighbors while your community does EXACTLY that, which in fairness was done to African Americans for a long time but blame goes to self for actually going along with it by nativity them for a really long time....but IMHO you have to be a Moron to even fall for a term like that and Caucasians who believe this bs usually A: Never had any real "privilege" in the first place B: Are completely deluded from reality in regards to life ever being fair, it never will be, take what you can get dummy

"white people give each other stuff" isn't very real... various subgroups of white people give each other stuff and are also more prone to pick variations of each other first.... DUHR, us and everyone else on the planet... It's long over due the African American community in America did the same, but your never going to get Caucasians or anyone else to not help each other out and trying to do so is the same racist bunk they complained about being done to them in the past, I for one wont be falling for it

originally posted by: criticalhit
"White privilege" for starters doesn't even exist in any manner other than the benefits any one else derives from interaction within any other Ethnic, Religious or Race based system.

In other words Christian communities will always have charities for other Christians locally, if your Wasp, Jewish or Mormon and you encounter others of your kind in business deals will be made on a handshake, if your Asian or Hindu Indian your going to get help with business loans and visas and things of that nature.

Those things are the real "privileges" and they haven't diminished one bit, in fact i'd say the harder the push the more organizations react to "helping their own"

So what is the loss of white "privilege" ?

In other words, you're asking what is meant by white "privilege" if ingroup bias based on ethnicity has always been common. This is the understanding of the term "privilege" to mean "opportunity." That's not exactly the "privilege" African Americans are referring to, not regarding social norms.

One way to look at the "privilege" of white people is by the absence of awkward situations that are more common for a black person. For example, a white store clerk allows a white customer to pay for goods with a credit card, no questions asked, but when the customer is African American the owner asks for ID. A white police officer gives a black man a hard time and arrests him on suspicion simply because he didn't go over to him when asked a question.
It isn't quite as common for white people to deal with being subjected to this kind of mistrust because of the absence of a stereotype, and that's a type of privilege.

The LOSS of white "privilege" would be manifested by the store clerk being reprimanded for not readily accepting the credit card from the black customer, or perhaps the white cop being disciplined after a complaint is filed by the black guy. I'm not saying all white people do these things. But if you can't get away with acting like the store clerk or the cop in the examples, and there are negative consequences if you do, then it's a loss of privilege.

The LOSS of privilege also comes in the more obvious form of "privilege" as meaning "opportunity." Members of minority groups seek an education in schools that have a finite number of students enrolled. Afterwards, they are given jobs in part because they have the same level of education as the white people who applied, and as a consequence, they may get the higher paying jobs that white people found typically easier to get in the past. I'm sure Affirmative Action has already been blamed as the reason for white people losing employment, and some will call this prejudice against white people, but it doesn't meet the definition of "prejudice" as an unjustifiable negative attitude toward white people. It's a loss of what was a type of "white privilege."

originally posted by: criticalhit
Truthfully, an attack on white privilege" is genuinely racist, it's essentially telling "white trash" they don't have the right to "get things" from friends family and neighbors while your community does EXACTLY that...

Only if you define "privilege" to mean the same as "opportunity."

originally posted by: criticalhit
...IMHO you have to be a Moron to even fall for a term like that and Caucasians who believe this bs usually A: Never had any real "privilege" in the first place B: Are completely deluded from reality in regards to life ever being fair, it never will be, take what you can get dummy

Only if you define "white privilege" to mean exclusively "opportunity," but privileges go beyond this, particularly in terms of social norms. Of course, if life will never be fair for any of us that doesn't give anyone license to make it more unfair, right?

I don't see anybody "attacking" white privilege in terms of the opportunities white people give to other white people. Articles like "Why Reverse Racism Doesn't Exist" are explaining that the awareness of prejudice against African Americans is a cause of the loss of certain privileges within the fabric of what has traditionally been a society dominated by white culture, and the white people who ignore what these privileges are perceive a type of prejudice against whites that doesn't exactly meet the definition of "prejudice" in my first post above:

originally posted by: Petros312
...the term "prejudice" in the question at hand refers to a much more narrow type of bias that is not simply based on having a negative attitude or making negative statements, it's when done in an overgeneralized and unjustifiable way that supposedly pertains to a whole group of people that share some common attribute, such as ethnicity or gender.

a reply to: Petros312

Well these are the "privileges" I sort of defined as having no actual meaning the closest thing I could use as a comparison is being over in Japan, absolutely as a Gaijin I am looked at "more" in that same store under suspicion as a potential shoplifter.

The truth... well, it's just a lot more common that Americans in general might be prone to theft than Japanese, so long as it is statistically "REAL" i'm going to face that and I guess what i'm saying is a "campaign" against white privilege is just biased in the end the more prosperous the Black Community becomes, spiritually, intellectually and financially the more it will simply go away.

Now...don't get me wrong, i'm not trying to say that it's no more difficult to be Black in White America when your an ordinary decent guy than it is for me to be Caucasian in Japan... it certainly is. I just know there is a simple truth, "petty shoplifting" is in particular a Caucasian American teenager pass time even from families with money... and Japanese very rarely do it... There wouldn't be security systems in stores if as a culture in America it was mainly a "rare" teen issue or the elderly grabbing a Steak, no we have mad loss prevention everywhere (which makes shopping suck for everyone imho) because as a culture like 1/3 of us lift stuff.... and yeah it's worse in the Black community.... mostly because poverty

But i'll never run around Japan complaining about Japanese Privilege on the subject lol... they are cool like that mainly and also have a better social system to prevent people from falling through the cracks than we do honestly

You know... your always going to be able to find examples of the extreme, like the one white lady who grabs her purse when a Black guy in a Tuxedo gets in the elevator lol... but honestly caring about that stuff is ridiculous, it happens, it also happens that the wrong Black guys decide "i'm the Man" lol from time to time just walking through a neighborhood...

There are always morons, we should stop polarizing our society for the 10% in the low IQ range or just biased or whatever.... those are still the people that will be "that way" no matter how many infomercials are done lol...

what's worse....

Is the constant divisive govt, organizational and media bombardment and public reaction to the topic... they mean well these people, but they are dumb and honestly (particularly when white people are on the band wagon) their actual discomfort with race shows through so hard it's embarrassing

Case in point.... the word African American

I remember never thinking about race as a kid in the 80's, UNTIL I was told to relabel everyone because "Black" had negative connotations lol, then suddenly I have to have it on my mind all the time... the school agenda of forcing these issues...

It's stupid, it's silly and it's all at the behest of the 60's generation.... and sheesh, i can't wait for this group to get out of politics, the current run is always a generation behind the reality re living THEIR issues, we had the Hippie, the Frat boy and now the Black activist... meanwhile the current generation was integrated 30 years ago and mainly it wont be a big deal anymore soon as a result of that....

On both sides of the coin ...Middle aged racists pretending they are comfortable with race and bringing their kids mostly back into their personal problems... when in reality the solution actually is... knowing that soon that generation will be dead and not in charge of the legal system etc and the problem will by and large be gone, including the conversation about if they'd let it go already...

All i'm saying is... the whole situation heals a lot slower with "that" generation in charge of the Law, the Media and Politics right now...blaring out every racist stupid cop or gross behavior on the news as if it's the new generational norm, barely covering their own insecurities with "speech controls" making it an ongoing Political "crisis" banging every bodies damn heads together lol, like ...you can't even go to University anymore and just dorm with your friends lol... it's like the start of a bad joke... "a Black guy a homosexual a Muslim and a Wasp go into a room...." and why? because some Middle age guilty white chick has to make a statement politically because underneath it all she's racist as hell still lol....

This stuff should be given a rest in our culture already...

originally posted by: tothetenthpower
a reply to: Petros312

IMO it's a bit more akin to....

White people are just loosing their privilege. They've had it for generations and of course they feel 'persecuted' when they realize they just aren't going to get stuff because of the color of their skin.

I think it's quite funny. As a white guy myself, I do enjoy watching the less socially initiated react when somebody checks their privilege for them.

~Tenth

So when my husband lost on a job FOR NO OTHER REASON than that he looked like a 100% white male and the other candidate was a minority female, and they chose her because of her gender and minority status, you enjoy that?

You enjoy it when people get discriminated against for superficial reasons?

So you cheer that type of thing on?

I thought better of you than that. Did it happen to other people when the white male was chosen because he was a white male and they weren't? Yes, but two wrongs don't make a right, and if it's wrong for someone to choose based on the superficial characteristics of race and gender once, it's equally wrong to do so the other way. What you are enjoying is NOT justice, it's revenge and that's petty.

a reply to: Petros312



NO, but their is split between the haves and have nots. The rich get away with it, the poor PAY for it. Isn't that the way it is supposed to be. We the ILLUMINATED are the backbone around the world, so we have to be out and about to do our deeds.

I don't think there are laws that intentionally prejudice things against white men, but I think our social justice system is being set up to create that kind of system.

Social justice aims to equalize outcomes for all through the law, and when you do that, you create laws that life or advantage some at the expense of others, and in this case, the white man is often the main target to be disadvantaged by those laws because they are perceived to have the most. What winds up happening is that eventually, you overburden or over-disadvantage the so-called advantaged group more than you might have intended sometimes with no discernible positive effect. And you eventually have in place a system that creates an inherent prejudice against a certain group.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

You know, subscribing to the belief of "white privilege" is part of the problem. "White privilege" has evolved into "white guilt," which is what has helped flip the coin of prejudice and racism to reverse the cancer instead of helping rid society of the cancer altogether.

I'm just baffled that people are surprised that racism would not crop up against whites, considering the historical track record of perpetuating racism.

I'm not saying it's right, but nothing will change until everybody realizes were all pink inside.

~Tenth

a reply to: criticalhit

I'm sorry, but look at white people who live in the inner city versus black people who do.

One of those groups of people has it worse than the rest. It's certainly not their fault.

That is institutionalized racism. It exists, in large part because ' White Savior Laws' still exist and we act like matriarchs to anybody who isn't of European decent.

We even do it in our foreign policy. 'Exporting Democracy' is probably the most racist thing I've seen done in the last 40 years.

So forgive me for stating, because at this point it's plainly obvious, some races are better off than others.

It has been that way for a while now. It's slowly changing, as the society become more multi-cultural, wealth and power is being distributed a bit more evenly.

Today though? EVERYBODY is getting screwed in one way or another, unless they are rich, and it doesn't matter what color you are.

~Tenth

a reply to: Tangerine

I feel sorry for myself? No I feel sorry for those that weren't able to drag themselves out of poverty and hand to mouth living, black or white.

Go out and experience life past your friggin computer screen and then come back and tell me that the system hasn't been designed to hurt white males while helping minorities. I grew up in an area where the median income is STILL 28k a year after taxes. There weren't any NAACP scholarships for me. I couldn't go and get free job training like a Native American or second generation immigrant. If it wasn't for me moving back to Canada, I'd still be a hoodlum. The only work around was minimum wage jobs that wouldn't have paid for rent if I worked 6 days a week for a month straight. Compare that to at least a grand a day slinging hash and weed.

College? Forget it, average tuition to any college that interested me or was anywhere near me was 20-30 grand a year plus books, food, and other expenses. There was maybe three scholarships that could've let me go to college and there was over a thousand people waiting for each scholarship.

You don't believe me about shelters, go to a domestic abuse shelter as a white male and ask to stay there because you're afraid of your wife beating you again. Go to a mental health clinic with the same exact problem as a white chick or minority and see how your treatment differs. Oh wait, there's that privilege again, seeing how you have no idea what life is like outside your carefully sheltered bubble

So tell me oh wise most definitely white one, how would you have gotten out of poverty without relying on your wealthy parents or free money?

And who do you think did the dying for the military before affirmative action, because last time I checked, there weren't too many minority military members at Tripoli, Haiti, the Boxer Rebellion or Mexico

originally posted by: criticalhit
a reply to: Petros312

Well these are the "privileges" I sort of defined as having no actual meaning the closest thing I could use as a comparison is being over in Japan, absolutely as a Gaijin I am looked at "more" in that same store under suspicion as a potential shoplifter...

But i'll never run around Japan complaining about Japanese Privilege on the subject lol...

I'm following you, but there's actually a parallel circumstance in Japan with Americans as there is in the USA with African Americans.

Americans are a minority in Japan. They experience a small degree of oppression by Japanese store owners who suspect they will steal something. The belief may indeed spill over to the Japanese police who will be more likely to believe a Japanese store owner if the owner accuses an American of shoplifting.

If in Japan store owners commonly accuse Americans of being shoplifters, unless it's statistically supported that the vast majority of Americans are shoplifters (which is no doubt untrue), it would be prejudiced (an overgeneralized and unjustifiable negative attitude) to suspect the American who is in a shop is going to steal something. Assuming what you are saying is true, it's a form of prejudice.

How is it a form of "privilege" for the Japanese? The obvious way is in the absence of something: Japanese shoppers are probably not being watched as carefully. The not so obvious privilege is when there's no negative consequences for treating Americans unfairly, either by a store owner (e.g., Americans aren't allowed to browse without a store associate right on their tails) or by the police (e.g., when a store owner reports he swears he saw an American "trying" to steal something and the police bring the person in for interrogation). It would be a LOSS of privilege if this stereotype of Americans was made more public, shown not to be supported by statistics, and then when the scenarios outlined above occur the store owner and the police are somehow reprimanded or fined for it. I'm sure there's little interest in the topic in Japan, partly because there are few Americans living there compared to the Japanese.

originally posted by: criticalhit
a reply to: Petros312
Case in point.... the word African American

I remember never thinking about race as a kid in the 80's, UNTIL I was told to relabel everyone because "Black" had negative connotations lol, then suddenly I have to have it on my mind all the time... the school agenda of forcing these issues...

It's stupid, it's silly and it's all at the behest of the 60's generation....

Or is it thoughtless and lazy that if there are people in a minority group that find the term "black" offensive, and they'd rather be called "African Americans," why not do it out of respect for their ethnicity? Is it so hard to consciously alter your language, or are you going to say (like some) that it's a violation of "free speech" to be discouraged from using the term "blacks" when you refer to African Americans? Don't you find the term "African American" to be more accurate than "black" ?

a reply to: thisguy27


That's just how it's going to be from now on, accept it. It isn't WHAT YOU KNOW, it is WHO you know and how much $ do YOU have. The poor go to jail and the rich go to a country club or RESIGN and retire and YOU will like it.

originally posted by: tothetenthpower
a reply to: SlapMonkey

You know, subscribing to the belief of "white privilege" is part of the problem. "White privilege" has evolved into "white guilt," which is what has helped flip the coin of prejudice and racism to reverse the cancer instead of helping rid society of the cancer altogether.

I'm just baffled that people are surprised that racism would not crop up against whites, considering the historical track record of perpetuating racism.

I'm not saying it's right, but nothing will change until everybody realizes were all pink inside.

~Tenth

I'm gonna stop you right here. Whites do not have a historical track record of perpetuating racism.
I'm going to have to ask you toe the line considering you're a moderator of all things.

a reply to: Szarekh

Are you kidding?

Whites do not have a historical record of institutionalized racism?

Ok..

The most basic of historical research will show you that's the case. Care to tell me why you don't think this is the case?

~Tenth