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Jill Tarter confrontation: SETI is spreading disinformation concerning alien contact on Earth

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posted on Oct, 29 2014 @ 05:46 AM
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a reply to: DJW001

If I am not mistaken I thought our radio waves were almost a 100+ light years out.




posted on Oct, 29 2014 @ 05:46 AM
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double post
edit on 29-10-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 29 2014 @ 08:47 AM
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originally posted by: wmd_2008

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: wmd_2008


That we haven't detected one single signal yet is telling of either they are lying to us or we are primitive as far as detecting. They lie to us about everything else…



Or it's a simple as we have nobody in range yet!

In range? The light from a myriad Galaxies from Billions of light years away has reached us, but not one signal?


hmmm…



posted on Oct, 29 2014 @ 10:28 AM
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a reply to: intrptr

The fact we haven't yet discovered a signal doesn't really mean anything , we've only been looking for a relatively short period of time and the variables involved in detecting a signal are so many it's like looking for a microscopic needle in a planet sized haystack.
Perhaps we'd be better off not looking for radio signals but something else instead.



posted on Oct, 29 2014 @ 12:27 PM
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a reply to: gortex


Perhaps we'd be better off not looking for radio signals but something else instead.

Something we can't see yet?

I'll go along with that. Or something hidden in plain sight we just haven't figured out yet.

Star Treks non intervention protocols came from this perplexing question. Where are they? In our "developed" world the air is full of broadcast signals. In the "developed" world out there should that also hold true?

Why are they hiding their presence? Why don't we readily see spirits or detect out of this world craft or see other indications of civilization other than earth type? They are hiding for all the reasons you and I have probably already surmised.



posted on Oct, 29 2014 @ 03:11 PM
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a reply to: Jack Jouett
The reverse is true too. There's ample amounts of as yet insubstantial evidence for UFOs; amounting mostly to witness reports instead of hard evidence. In fact, there's at least as many witness reports of near death experiences and of ghosts and chupacabra. And again there's no hard evidence for either of those. So is Ufology a disinformation campaign to disuade people away from SETI?

I think SETI is an honest organization. I also think it's distantly possible it's an unwitting agent of disinformation funded and encouraged by the government. However, without hard evidence of UFOs, it's difficult to entertain that possibility.

Someone mentioned chemotherapy and stated SETI is as bloated and ineffective as it's. Problem is the poster was completely wrong. Chemotherapy has been proven to be effective. Furthermore, 3d chemotherpay is on the horizen and is proving to be a much greater tool in eliminating cancer's reign.

My personal opinion is SOME UFOs in history were actual alien craft, but it's not an empirical statement. I guess it's my own sort of religious faith. I can't be perfectly rationale! I must also say whatever technology the aliens use(d) to travel is so far outside our field of knowledge we cannot detect it in our telescopes yet. (If the aliens used something more conventional we would have very likely detected its traces.) I must also add whichever UFO was alien and visited or observed us must not already be documented, it can also be completely unknown to us. So all of our documented sightings might NOT be ET. Yet I don't discount SETI, neither do I think there's a vast government conspiracy. Ufology is so incompetant and showy that it does all the work needed to discredit itself.
edit on 29-10-2014 by jonnywhite because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 30 2014 @ 05:28 AM
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even Kaku says they're looking at the wrong part of the spectrum and HE'S one of the worst dis-info guys. DeGrasseTyson and Hawking are two more a reply to: intrptr



posted on Oct, 30 2014 @ 08:52 AM
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originally posted by: bottleslingguy
even Kaku says they're looking at the wrong part of the spectrum and HE'S one of the worst dis-info guys. DeGrasseTyson and Hawking are two more a reply to: intrptr


If you mean scientists or astrophysicists don't generally believe in anything they haven't seen, I agree.

What a prison to have never seen the real world. Back to the conch shell.

Tyson holding one up to his ear going, Shhh, I can't listen when you talk to me.



posted on Oct, 31 2014 @ 02:52 AM
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originally posted by: Jack Jouett


So says a UFO activist confronting SETI astronomer Jill Tarter. Discussion takes place at event promoted by the National Radio Astronomy Observatory headquartered in Charlottesville, Virginia. Located near the National Radio Observatory in Greenbank West Virginia and the National Radio Quiet Zone. Is SETI a secret government operation to hide the truth about UFO contact on Earth?


SETI is not secret nor is it run by the government (anymore). It exists purely on private donations for better or worse.

They can barely pay their bills. You'd think a super secret organization wouldn't have any issues with finances.

What SETI is in reality are a bunch of hardworking scientists doing REAL research into what might be out there and devising a wide array of experiments which are NOT all limited to radio to discover real aliens and have proof of them which can be repeatably observed.

If you have any questions about SETI let me know. I know quite a lot about it and have met Jill and had lunch with Seth (Shostak).
edit on 31-10-2014 by JadeStar because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 31 2014 @ 02:53 AM
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originally posted by: signalfire
I wonder if they've talked to Richard Dolan? Seems like he's found plenty to indicate long term government knowledge of extraterrestrial presence on Earth, and he's a trained and respected historian.

The sum total of information on this topic seems to be being ignored by SETI.


SETI is not into conspiracies. It's into science. Conspiracy theory is not science.



posted on Oct, 31 2014 @ 02:55 AM
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originally posted by: signalfire

originally posted by: draknoir2

originally posted by: signalfire
I wonder if they've talked to Richard Dolan? Seems like he's found plenty to indicate long term government knowledge of extraterrestrial presence on Earth, and he's a trained and respected historian.

The sum total of information on this topic seems to be being ignored by SETI.


Probably because the investigation of alleged UFO/Alien contact on Earth has nothing to do with what SETI does.



Calling that exchange a "confrontation" is like calling oatmeal spicy.


So the 'Search for ExtraTerrestrial Intelligence' doesn't include anyone who has already gotten here?


It will the moment there is something which can be repeatably tested as not being from Earth and intelligently constructed.

edit on 31-10-2014 by JadeStar because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 31 2014 @ 02:58 AM
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a reply to: JadeStar




They can barely pay their bills. You'd think a super secret organization wouldn't have any issues with finances.


Unless of course, the financial strife is a red herring contrivance to make you think exactly that.

It's a standard smoke and mirrors tactic, it's a relatively simple thing to cook the books, which results in...'they can't possibly be part of a secret public relations and handling operation, as they are quite plainly chasing every penny just to survive'...you said it yourself.

So IF the finances are bogus, it's having the desired effect isn't it.



posted on Oct, 31 2014 @ 03:12 AM
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I encourage anyone who is interested in UFOs and SETI to read UFOlogist and Astrophysicist Peter A. Sturrock's panel report here.

Here's an excerpt from it (italics and bold mine):

Physical Evidence Related to UFO Reports:
The Proceedings of a Workshop Held at the Pocantico
Conference Center, Tarrytown, New York,
September 29 - October 4,1997




Appendix 7. Further Thoughts on SETI and UFO Investigations
F. LOUANGE

The SETI and UFO problems may or may not be related to each other. As there does not so far exist any proof concerning this question, it seems wise to keep those two problems apart and not to confuse them. The questions raised by the UFO and SETI problems are not at all comparable, and the strategies for their research are drastically different. The SETI problem corresponds to a one-bit theoretical question: does there exist, elsewhere in the universe, any form of intelligence that has reached the technological level of transmitting intelligent electromagnetic signals that humans could detect and identify?

Although this question is undoubtedly exciting and justified by existing probabilistic computations about the existence of planets, the appearance of life, the duration of a civilization, etc., the final answer is theoretically Yes or No. However, only a Yes answer will be final, since a No answer may be revised in view of technical improvements of detection techniques.

The UFO problem arises from the verified existence of a very large and coherent set of testimonies worldwide. Its approach is bound to be in three steps:

Step 1. Try by all means to identify the stimulus that has led to the report: the report may be due to inadequate information, misinterpretation of a familiar phenomenon or device, an unusual astronomical or atmospheric phenomenon, an unusual technological device, or a hoax (perpetrated by the reporter or on the reporter).

Step 2. If Step 1 has not yielded an explanation of the report, try to charac- terize the event that led to the report and compare it with other case de- scriptions.

Step 3. For any case that is strong in testimony and rich in detail, one should try to define a model. In this activity, we are clearly not dealing with a simple question with a Yes /No (one-bit) answer. Different cases require analyses with different levels of complexity.

The SETI and UFO problems also involve different approaches. Scientists may pursue the SETI project and remain in a very familiar environment: the relevant technological area is clearly identified and one may follow a predefined strategy by specifying the frequency search band, the required receiver sensitivity, the intrinsic properties of an intelligent signal, etc.

On the other hand, research on the UFO problem is necessarily complex, multidisciplinary, unpredictable and must be expected to evolve as research progresses. The basic detection is usually carried out by unprepared human beings, and analy- sis may call upon a wide range of disciplines including human perception, psychology, astronomy, image processing, physics, chemistry, etc. Moreover, effective research in this field must be conducted with an open mind.

Although in public opinion the UFO and SETI projects are closely associated, they should be kept clearly separated as far as serious research is concerned. The questions being addressed are quite different in nature: the SETI project aims at a simple YesINo answer to the question of the existence of extraterrestrial intelligence, whereas research into the UFO project must be pursued with a completely open mind as to the questions that need to be posed and answered.

Moreover, the respective technical strategies have nothing in common: SETI research is carried out primarily within the established framework of radio astronomy, whereas UFO research is necessarily multidisciplinary and innovative.



NOTE: The above was written in 1997. SETI today is largely carried out within a multidisciplinary, innovative environment and now includes many other areas than radio astronomy. Everything from optical and infrared astronomy (optical/infrared SETI) to things like Dolphin and Primate communication to Exoplanet research.

edit on 31-10-2014 by JadeStar because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 31 2014 @ 03:17 AM
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originally posted by: MysterX
a reply to: JadeStar




They can barely pay their bills. You'd think a super secret organization wouldn't have any issues with finances.


Unless of course, the financial strife is a red herring contrivance to make you think exactly that.


It isn't though. SETI is done on a shoestring budget the world over, even in places like Italy where last I heard their government still supported research.

Even when the NASA SETI program operated it received a very tiny amount of the overall NASA budget and was always under threat of the ax which eventually happened.





It's a standard smoke and mirrors tactic, it's a relatively simple thing to cook the books, which results in...'they can't possibly be part of a secret public relations and handling operation, as they are quite plainly chasing every penny just to survive'...you said it yourself.

So IF the finances are bogus, it's having the desired effect isn't it.





It's fun to imagine conspiracies around every corner and SETI scientists as some sort of cloak-n-dagger types but like I said, I've met them, worked with people they work with and know nothing could be further from the truth.

If there is any sort of grand alien conspiracy the SETI people would be the last to know because they are not concerned with that stuff nor are astronomers likely to be involved in it. While they are disciplined scientists many are some of the most eclectic people in many cases that you'll come across and not prone to be ordered around like soldiers.

Also, ours is a field where information is shared as a matter of habit, not covered up. Only through openness and co-operation do many breakthroughs and discoveries happen.

This openness would serve to undermine any sort of conspiracy.
edit on 31-10-2014 by JadeStar because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 31 2014 @ 03:53 AM
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Chapter 6 excerpt:


Appendix 6. SETI and UFO Investigations Compared
- K R. Eshlernan


.....the UFO and SETI communities share defining attributes includ- ing a surfeit of putative evidence that remains unidentified, and the lack of a single example that can be unequivocally verified, repeated, understood, or captured. That is, both are subject areas of investigation that totally lack identified objects. Then why is one moving into the mainstream of acceptable science while the other is not?

It may not be generally realized that the several different groups of SETI observers have received and tabulated an appreciable number of URS, or unidentified radio signals, in the course of listening to billions of radio chan- nels for hundreds of thousands of hours, looking in tens of thousands of directions. They measure signals that are noise and signals that range up to many times stronger than can be explained in terms of natural noise. They identify nearly all of the strong signals as coming from radio and TV stations, from military radars and various kinds of communications systems, from satellites and deep space probes launched by various national and international organizations, and from many kinds of equipment that leak electromagnetic energy over broad spectral bands. After very thoughtful and vigorous winnowing, there has been a residual number of strong signals received by every group that are, and will no doubt remain, unidentified. But these are not described and released to the media as something unusual or mysterious. This is because they could not be verified by other observers or by repeat observations at the same frequency and in the same direction in the sky.

(continued.)



posted on Oct, 31 2014 @ 03:57 AM
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The SETI participants include a large fraction of scientifically trained radio astronomers, and they employ complex and expensive equipment that includes the largest antennas and most sensitive electronic and digital systems in the world.

The UFO community is much broader and diverse, and cannot bring to bear the instrumental firepower that is routine in SETI research. In fact, no equipment is involved in most UFO case studies. The nature of UFO phenomena is such that it would be unreasonable to demand repeat observations of the same kind of incident and independent confirmation of events by different observers.

However, the status of UFO studies may be improved if we can find a way to move in a direction where independent confirmation and repeatability could be realized and become routine. Where some level of repeatability exists but explanations are incomplete (e.g., in the Hessdalen project), more investigative resources are clearly required. Open channels of communication between UFO investigators and a broader scientific group may lead to natural explanations of many observations and thereby winnow the numerous reports to a few notable examples to which intense cooperative efforts could be applied.


That last underlined part is a good reason why I am on ATS.



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