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Ukraine crisis: Russia to recognise rebel vote in Donetsk and Luhansk

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posted on Oct, 29 2014 @ 09:09 AM
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originally posted by: MysterX
When you use the term 'war crimes' as a moral stick to beat those you don't like?


Not at all.. I get tired of seeing Pro Russians argue from a position of Russian moral superiority while spreading pixie dust and happiness anywhere Putin goes.




originally posted by: MysterX
Sure i will use that right back atcha...to highlight your blatant hypocrisy more than foolishly attempting to claim that nobody, anywhere else, including Russia has ever committed war crimes, which of course they have done...including my own country Great Britain.


How is it hypocritical to point out Russian war crimes when discussing Russia?




originally posted by: MysterX
You don't say the US has never committed war crimes, however you also don't acknowledge they exist when you're busy attempting to convince readers of Russian war crimes either...are you that blinkered in your anti-Russian fervour that you cannot recognise the absolute hypocrisy you are showing in your repeated comments about crimes?


If you read my post you would have seen where I stated the US has committed war crimes and have charged tried and convicted people behind it.

Secondly, again, the topic of conversation is Russia. Why would I talk about Us action when the topic is Russia? Just because I try and remain on topic so as not to derail the thread does not mean I think the Us is innocent. You guys really need to stop seeing only what you want.




originally posted by: MysterX
You're basically covered in tar and feathers, trying to tar and feather Russia...it is hypocritical in the extreme and frankly very poor propaganda value...frankly, i have come to expect a more highbrow and better crafted level of propaganda from you, considering the amount of practice you get on these boards.

As always refute the facts and don't attack the person, which is what you seem to be doing.

Secondly I post sources / links etc when I post. That is a courtesy not extended back by people on the other side of the fence. If people could refute the facts contained in my posts then you might have an argument. However, when people attack me and accuse me of supplying propaganda while completely failing to refute the facts and support their response one has to wonder who is spewing the propaganda.

After all if the info I posted is wrong then you guys would have no issues refuting it. Instead of doing that you launch personal attacks and accusations with nothing to support it.



originally posted by: MysterX
What you're saying here and currently in other similarly themed threads, is like a kid punching another and then complaining to mommy that the other kid has just thumped you one, without of course, telling mommy you also thumped the other kid.

C'mon, you can do better.

Actually that's not what I am saying.








edit on 29-10-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)




posted on Oct, 29 2014 @ 09:15 AM
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originally posted by: Agent_USA_Supporter
People defending the nationalists in Ukraine is quite Classic.


Luckily, I'm just defending Ukraine's right to be a sovereign democratic nation.



From the moment when McCain came during the pro EU protest rally and in front of the several leaders of the fascist nationalist leaders.


Oh right. Who are these "fascist nationalist leaders"? Are they "fascists" because they are not pro Russian, because some neo Nazi's have been fighting the Ukrainian authorities, or is that an inconvenient truth. Seems to me that there are fascists all over the place depending on the prism being looked through!



Myself and few others have being posting sources and articles you and your buddies on the other hand have being quite desperate ridiculing them.


Really. Not ridiculing, more questioning. Anyway, do you think that is? Could it be that they fly in the face of the evidence, or are perhaps looking-at-the-world-through-a-tube type of sources, or even straight from the Russian authorities in the form of rt.com?

Regards

edit on 29/10/2014 by paraphi because: formatting



posted on Oct, 29 2014 @ 12:21 PM
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a reply to: MGaddafi




They realized whats going on and for this the Ukraine labeld them Pro Russian, when they are Pro Freedom.


Well isn't that what they are?



posted on Oct, 29 2014 @ 12:48 PM
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a reply to: Agent_USA_Supporter




From the moment when McCain came during the pro EU protest rally and in front of the several leaders of the fascist nationalist leaders.


And that is a problem how?

Just because he went there doesn't even come close to proving the US had anything to do with what happened to Yanukovych as it was his own doing that brought him down.



Myself and few others have being posting sources and articles you and your buddies on the other hand have being quite desperate ridiculing them.


Really you post sources?



Yet when your buddies start kiev post as a source for the sources we arent allowed on questioning its network? kiev post is made by nationalists dont believe me?


And yet you post the same sources you criticize other's for doing. Not much different than when a Putinista is using RT or other Russian media as a source. Especially ones that have had to apologize for their outright lies they report on.



posted on Oct, 29 2014 @ 12:54 PM
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a reply to: Agent_USA_Supporter




Here you go.


Of course,

Seems you need to keep trying to rehash evidence that has been thoroughly discussed, but I guess that is all you have to fall back on, so I guess it isn't a real surprise.



So now we know who is destabilizing the Ukraine.


Yes we do...Russia.




If you believe Nuland and Obama boy on Ukraine then you might as well start believing them on Syria. You cant have it two ways in one narrow street, of believing.

What America is doing to Syria now it is the same thing they are doing Ukraine through by proxy methods.


Couldn't resist bringing Syria into a Ukraine thread could you?



posted on Oct, 29 2014 @ 01:06 PM
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a reply to: Xcathdra

I followed your posts and there is nothing about the LDPR being Nazis. I also followed your transcript link and if this doesn't sound like trying for a coup,then what in your opinion is?

CNN transcript:

ZAKARIA: First on Ukraine, one of the things that many people recognized about you was that you during the revolutions of 1989 funded a lot of dissident activities, civil society groups in eastern Europe and Poland, the Czech Republic. Are you doing similar things in Ukraine?

SOROS: Well, I set up a foundation in Ukraine before Ukraine became independent of Russia. And the foundation has been functioning ever since and played an important part in events now.


Why would anyone fund dissident groups if you aren't trying for a coup?
And yes there is a Nazi group in Russia, they are a fringe group like in most countries.
In the meantime,Russia has passed laws that it is illegal to,use Nazi symbols, spread Nazi ideology,try to rewrite history,and display anything to do with Nazis.



posted on Oct, 29 2014 @ 01:53 PM
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a reply to: Dimithae




Russia has passed laws that it is illegal to,use Nazi symbols, spread Nazi ideology,try to rewrite history,and display anything to do with Nazis.


Why the hell Russians want to tow the Nazi line? They are the one's who suffered the most guresome crimes on their peoples from the hands of the Nazis.

Even today in the Anglosaxon books words like Slavic, Othodox Christianity etc. are termed as inferior and down graded. In the Nazi ideology, Slavics are outright sub-humans, even today.

So what is the reason for (some) Russians to follow Nazi ideology? Organizations like NASHI i.e our own make more sense and better represent the Russian variables. Nothing wrong in wanting to stick to one's own in much personal variables in life like marriage/dating, friends to hang out with, choosing a business partner, which church or club to visit etc.




posted on Oct, 29 2014 @ 02:24 PM
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a reply to: victor7




Why the hell Russians want to tow the Nazi line? They are the one's who suffered the most guresome crimes on their peoples from the hands of the Nazis.



And yet he appointed one to run the separatists named Pavel Gubarev.

And here is a bit more about him...

www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Oct, 29 2014 @ 02:28 PM
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a reply to: victor7




So what is the reason for (some) Russians to follow Nazi ideology?


Now think about that with Ukraine and you will have your answer.



posted on Oct, 29 2014 @ 02:28 PM
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originally posted by: victor7
Why the hell Russians want to tow the Nazi line? They are the one's who suffered the most guresome crimes on their peoples from the hands of the Nazis.


You need to remove the word NAZI as that has connotations with WW2 and huge Russian sacrifice. However, in this day and age there are Russian groups who are described as fascist, that is following an ideology that supports an extreme version of authoritarian nationalism. Groups like the National Bolshevik Party, the Russian National Unity party and the Slavic Union.

As Putin's Russia becomes increasingly authoritarian, these groups seem to becoming increasingly prominent.

Regards



posted on Oct, 29 2014 @ 04:04 PM
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a reply to: victor7

I was replying to the OP that keeps insisting that there are Nazis in the Russian state Duma.



posted on Oct, 29 2014 @ 04:20 PM
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a reply to: tsurfer2000h

And yet the Wikipedia article states:

They are now only a shadow of what they once were, and have been inactive and somewhat dormant for many years now.


And for Pavel Gubarev, mind you,I'm not about to say he is a nice guy,but going by Wiki again he says out of his mouth:

In earlier years Gubarev was a member of the neo-Nazi Russian National Unity paramilitary group.Gubarev has publicly given thanks to this group for providing him with military training. In the same interview he said he was not a radical nationalist and described himself as "centre-left."


People put labels on others and themselves. And we all see what we want to see.



posted on Oct, 29 2014 @ 07:13 PM
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a reply to: Dimithae

And there is nothing to the position of some that Nazis are in control of the government in Kiev.

If we use the same standards pro russians use when they falsely claim there are nazis in Ukrainines government, then the same is applied to russia and the party I listed. That Russian party is ultra nationalist and has 50+ members in the Duma. The "Nazis", as pro Russians claim, in ukraine hold no seats.
edit on 29-10-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 30 2014 @ 02:37 AM
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a reply to: Dimithae




In earlier years Gubarev was a member of the neo-Nazi Russian National Unity paramilitary group.Gubarev has publicly given thanks to this group for providing him with military training. In the same interview he said he was not a radical nationalist and described himself as "centre-left."


Thyat is because if he say's he is a nationalist RUssia comes down on him. You see this is a way to get your nationalist views out there without having to visit the Siberian countryside for an undetermined length of a vacation.

Also know that just because they are a shell of themselves they are still active in RUssia, and now in Eastern Ukraine. Although now they may go by another name.

Names change ideology doesn't when your a neo Nazi.



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