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USA vs. EU, the truth

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posted on Dec, 9 2004 @ 03:09 PM
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If you came here to witness an american bashing thread, it is quite the contrary as I've seen as much american bashing here as I am willing to take, and I'm putting a stop to it with facts.

I'm really amazed to see such a staggering amount of propaganda, lies and distortions of the truth I see on these boards about America. Well, it is pretty much how the liberal media and the world covers the same story also. However, lets base what we know on factual material, not from what we learned in Micheal Moore's movie or from your parents who work at CBS. Which I know, most of what you're going by.

www.odci.gov...

Fact, the US has a public debt of about 62% of its GDP. Now when you look at that, it can either be bad or good.

China has a public debt of about 30-31% of its GDP. Then again, china has been in an economic boom the last 10 years with about 9% growth. Yet it has a pretty high debt as well, yet it is the fastest growing economy in the world.

Now lets compare our public debt to some other countries, lets say. Canada. It seems that canada has more problems than it is willing to admit publicly. As it shows, canada has a public debt of 77% of its GDP, and with a 7.8% unemployment rate. I remind you that the US has about 10 times more people and its umployment rate is 5.4-6%.

Lets look into some of those big guys in the European Union whose societies have almost perfected how you're supposed to live your life under a secular socialist government.

France: Public Debt 68.8%, Unemployment Rate 9.7%.

Spain: Public Debt 62.7%, Unemployment Rate 11.3%.

Germany: Public Debt 64.2%, Unemployment Rate 10.5%.

Italy: Public Debt 106.4%, Unemoloyment Rate 8.6%.

Now you see why the UK doesn't want to join the EU, by comparison. UK has a 5% unemployment rate and about around a 40% public debt. It doesn't take common sense to see that the EU is a failure, or why the UK is hesitant to join such an pathetic organization such as that. I'd take my chances with the US over the EU, economically and personally if I were the britons.

I havn't even gone into the average annual growth of those nations yet, I must say, it is rather pathetic even compared to the statistics of what I just showed. It doesn't even look like all the EU nations put together reached the growth of 1% annually. Considering germany, denmark, france and italy didn't even manage to get 1% last year.

Also considering, none of these european countries even put money into their military, or canada, while the US has maintained over 3% spending on its military since 9/11/2001. Need I also remind you that military spending under the Clinton Administration never reached 3%. Therefore, the notion that our military or one of our military branches is shrinking is just that, utter crap.




posted on Dec, 9 2004 @ 03:22 PM
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Good post GODFLESH!!! I had no idea that other countries had as high or higher percentage of debt related to GDP. Here is some depressing news form Germany: "Germany's ageing population, combined with high unemployment, has pushed social security outlays to a level exceeding contributions from workers. Structural rigidities in the labor market - including strict regulations on laying off workers and the setting of wages on a national basis - have made unemployment a chronic problem."

The social Security problem looks similar to the one the US will face and Germany is still trudging along. There still is hope I might collect social security some day.


Nox

posted on Dec, 9 2004 @ 03:23 PM
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I completely agree with you.

America is a lot stronger than people give it credit for.

The strength of the EU is being blown out of proportion. It's exaggerated to say the least. Check out this propaganda article:



America, Wake Up to the European Dream
By Jeremy Rifkin
The Washington Post
Sunday, October 31, 2004

Europe: We love to vacation there, if we can afford it. It's the cultural mecca many of us flock to, to awaken our senses and feed our souls. But Europe as a political entity? To Americans, it's just a creaky old set of governments presiding over a moribund economy marked by inflexible labor policies, bloated welfare bureaucracies and an aging, pampered populace. It's the state of Eurosclerosis, right?

Not anymore. Toss out that image of Europe as relic. On Friday, the heads of the 25 member nations of the European Union signed the European Constitution (to be ratified over the next two years by each state), effectively creating the first transnational political entity in history. These "United States of Europe" represent the rise of a new ideal that could eclipse the United States as the focus of the world's yearnings for well-being and prosperity. Yet our country is largely unaware of and unprepared for the vast changes that are quickly transforming the Old World and giving birth to what I call the new European Dream.

The old dream, the American Dream that made the individual the master of his fate and emphasized the personal accumulation of wealth, is faltering. A national survey taken in 2001 showed that one-third of all Americans no longer believe in the American Dream, either because it has failed them, or because they believe that in an increasingly interdependent world, it no longer works. Even the most self-reliant among us are vulnerable to phenomena beyond our control: a SARS epidemic, a terrorist attack, global warming. In this sort of world, the European Dream, with its emphasis on inclusivity, diversity, sustainable development and interconnectedness, is the world's first attempt at creating a global consciousness. And it deserves our close attention.

If you want a sense of the strength of this new vision, talk to the young adults of Europe. They're a new breed, increasingly choosing to remain on their continent rather than migrate to America, once a hope for many, especially in Eastern Europe. For them, the continent is no longer a world of warring states, walled-off cities and guards at every border, but a wide-open region where old economic, political and cultural barriers are breaking down, leading to new opportunities and new ways of thinking.

A young German woman I recently met had just completed a year studying in Spain on the EU's Erasmus exchange program, which has sponsored more than a million intra-European exchange students since 1987. She told me she now has close friends all over the continent. "We constantly visit each other, often work and vacation together, and date one another," she said. In contrast to their post-war-generation parents, who still harbor prejudices against Europeans of other nationalities, she and her friends are positive toward each other and optimistic about Europe's future, she said. A 2001 survey showed that one-third of Europeans between the ages of 21 and 35 said they regard themselves "as more European than as nationals of their home country."

There are lots of reasons for their optimism. We Americans still think of our country as the most successful on Earth, but the EU is now a close rival. With its 455 million consumers, it's the largest internal market in the world, and the largest exporting power. And the euro is now stronger than the dollar -- a reality few American economists considered possible just four years ago.

The EU's growing economic clout has humbled once all-powerful U.S. businesses. The union has blocked mergers between American companies (General Electric and Honeywell), fined Microsoft on antitrust grounds and stymied attempts by U.S. businesses to introduce genetically modified food into Europe.

In many of the world's leading industries, European transnational companies dominate. European financial institutions are the world's bankers. Fourteen of the 20 largest commercial banks in the world today are European, and European businesses lead in the chemical, engineering and construction, aerospace and insurance industries, as well as the food wholesale and retail trades. Sixty-one of the 140 biggest companies on the Global Fortune 500 rankings are European, while only 50 are U.S. companies.

Beyond this burgeoning economy, which is bound to draw capital and people to Europe in ever greater numbers, Europe also offers significant quality-of-life advantages. In terms of wealth distribution -- a crucial measure of a country's ability to deliver on the promise of prosperity -- the United States ranks 24th in the world; all 18 of the most developed European countries rank higher, with less income inequality than we have. There are now more poor people living in America than in the 16 European nations for which data is available. And America's homicide rate is four times that of Europe. My European friends can't understand why so many Americans have guns; they find the phenomenon frightening.

Why these differences exist has to do, I believe, with the nature of the dream on each side of the Atlantic. Both are anchored in the ideal of personal freedom. But each defines that freedom differently. Americans have always associated freedom with autonomy, and autonomy with property. The wealthier you are, the more independent you are, and the more secure you are. Europeans find freedom not in autonomy, but in embeddedness. For most Europeans, the community's quality of life is more important than individual financial success. The more communities you join, the more options you have for living a full and meaningful life. Belonging -- not belongings -- is what brings security.

My European friends are far less consumed with possessions than most Americans I know, and they spend much more time with one another. It's not uncommon for family and friends to talk for four or five hours over dinner or drinks. Like many Americans, I often get antsy in these marathon sessions, but it's all part of the European sense of togetherness.

Europeans often remark that Americans "live to work," while they "work to live." Although the demands of globalization mean that Europeans have to work somewhat harder than they used to, they still get an average of five weeks' paid vacation a year, where Americans get two. And the European Dream understands the value of leisure and even idleness. In Europe, no one seems to be in a hurry to "get somewhere." A European colleague once admonished me: "The problem with you Americans is that you are unable to surrender to the moment and wait to see what pleasant experience might come your way." He has a point. Most Americans, myself included, believe that happiness isn't something that comes to us, but something we must forever work toward. Most Europeans simply don't feel that way.

Where the American Dream emphasizes economic growth, the European Dream focuses on sustainable development. Environmental awareness is much higher in Europe than in America, even if sustainable development is beginning to make inroads here as well. Compared to us, Europeans are fanatical about conserving energy. When I stay in a major hotel in Europe, I have to insert my card key into a slot to turn the lights on in my room. When I leave, I retrieve my key from the slot and the lights automatically turn off. Similarly, when I approach an escalator in most airports, it doesn't begin to move until a light beam signals my presence.

Europeans accept heavy taxes on gasoline and opt for smaller cars to save energy and reduce the effects of global warming. America consumes nearly one-third more energy than the 15 most developed EU countries, even though they have a combined population that's nearly 100 million more than the United States'.

The old dream, the American Dream that made the individual the master of his fate and emphasized the personal accumulation of wealth, is faltering. A national survey taken in 2001 showed that one-third of all Americans no longer believe in the American Dream, either because it has failed them, or because they believe that in an increasingly interdependent world, it no longer works. Even the most self-reliant among us are vulnerable to phenomena beyond our control: a SARS epidemic, a terrorist attack, global warming. In this sort of world, the European Dream, with its emphasis on inclusivity, diversity, sustainable development and interconnectedness, is the world's first attempt at creating a global consciousness. And it deserves our close attention.

If you want a sense of the strength of this new vision, talk to the young adults of Europe. They're a new breed, increasingly choosing to remain on their continent rather than migrate to America, once a hope for many, especially in Eastern Europe. For them, the continent is no longer a world of warring states, walled-off cities and guards at every border, but a wide-open region where old economic, political and cultural barriers are breaking down, leading to new opportunities and new ways of thinking.

A young German woman I recently met had just completed a year studying in Spain on the EU's Erasmus exchange program, which has sponsored more than a million intra-European exchange students since 1987. She told me she now has close friends all over the continent. "We constantly visit each other, often work and vacation together, and date one another," she said. In contrast to their post-war-generation parents, who still harbor prejudices against Europeans of other nationalities, she and her friends are positive toward each other and optimistic about Europe's future, she said. A 2001 survey showed that one-third of Europeans between the ages of 21 and 35 said they regard themselves "as more European than as nationals of their home country."

There are lots of reasons for their optimism. We Americans still think of our country as the most successful on Earth, but the EU is now a close rival. With its 455 million consumers, it's the largest internal market in the world, and the largest exporting power. And the euro is now stronger than the dollar -- a reality few American economists considered possible just four years ago.

The EU's growing economic clout has humbled once all-powerful U.S. businesses. The union has blocked mergers between American companies (General Electric and Honeywell), fined Microsoft on antitrust grounds and stymied attempts by U.S. businesses to introduce genetically modified food into Europe.

In many of the world's leading industries, European transnational companies dominate. European financial institutions are the world's bankers. Fourteen of the 20 largest commercial banks in the world today are European, and European businesses lead in the chemical, engineering and construction, aerospace and insurance industries, as well as the food wholesale and retail trades. Sixty-one of the 140 biggest companies on the Global Fortune 500 rankings are European, while only 50 are U.S. companies.

Beyond this burgeoning economy, which is bound to draw capital and people to Europe in ever greater numbers, Europe also offers significant quality-of-life advantages. In terms of wealth distribution -- a crucial measure of a country's ability to deliver on the promise of prosperity -- the United States ranks 24th in the world; all 18 of the most developed European countries rank higher, with less income inequality than we have. There are now more poor people living in America than in the 16 European nations for which data is available. And America's homicide rate is four times that of Europe. My European friends can't understand why so many Americans have guns; they find the phenomenon frightening.

Why these differences exist has to do, I believe, with the nature of the dream on each side of the Atlantic. Both are anchored in the ideal of personal freedom. But each defines that freedom differently. Americans have always associated freedom with autonomy, and autonomy with property. The wealthier you are, the more independent you are, and the more secure you are. Europeans find freedom not in autonomy, but in embeddedness. For most Europeans, the community's quality of life is more important than individual financial success. The more communities you join, the more options you have for living a full and meaningful life. Belonging -- not belongings -- is what brings security.

My European friends are far less consumed with possessions than most Americans I know, and they spend much more time with one another. It's not uncommon for family and friends to talk for four or five hours over dinner or drinks. Like many Americans, I often get antsy in these marathon sessions, but it's all part of the European sense of togetherness.

Europeans often remark that Americans "live to work," while they "work to live." Although the demands of globalization mean that Europeans have to work somewhat harder than they used to, they still get an average of five weeks' paid vacation a year, where Americans get two. And the European Dream understands the value of leisure and even idleness. In Europe, no one seems to be in a hurry to "get somewhere." A European colleague once admonished me: "The problem with you Americans is that you are unable to surrender to the moment and wait to see what pleasant experience might come your way." He has a point. Most Americans, myself included, believe that happiness isn't something that comes to us, but something we must forever work toward. Most Europeans simply don't feel that way.

Where the American Dream emphasizes economic growth, the European Dream focuses on sustainable development. Environmental awareness is much higher in Europe than in America, even if sustainable development is beginning to make inroads here as well. Compared to us, Europeans are fanatical about conserving energy. When I stay in a major hotel in Europe, I have to insert my card key into a slot to turn the lights on in my room. When I leave, I retrieve my key from the slot and the lights automatically turn off. Similarly, when I approach an escalator in most airports, it doesn't begin to move until a light beam signals my presence.

Europeans accept heavy taxes on gasoline and opt for smaller cars to save energy and reduce the effects of global warming. America consumes nearly one-third more energy than the 15 most developed EU countries, even though they have a combined population that's nearly 100 million more than the United States'.

Of course, Europe hasn't suddenly become Shangri-La. For all their talk of preserving cultural identity, Europeans have become increasingly hostile toward newly arrived immigrants and asylum seekers from other parts of the world -- even as their continent becomes more attractive to these very people. Anti-Semitism is on the rise again, as is discrimination against Muslims and other religious minorities.

For the European Union itself, many difficulties remain, including integrating the 10 new Central, Eastern and Southern European member states, whose economies lag far behind the wealthier Western and Northern members. The EU's governing machinery in Brussels is a maze of bureaucratic red tape, and its officials are often accused of being aloof and unresponsive to the needs of the European citizens they supposedly serve.

But the point is not whether the Europeans are living up to their dream. We Americans have never fully lived up to our own. What's important is that Europe has articulated a new vision for the future that differs from ours in fundamental ways. Romano Prodi, the president of the European Commission, has admitted that the EU's goal is to establish "a superpower on the European continent that stands equal to the United States." When I asked him to explain what he meant, he spoke of the European vision as one of a new type of power, based not on military strength but on economic cooperation and the construction of communities of conscience, a new kind of superpower based on waging peace.

Utopian as it sounds, remember that 200 years ago, America's founders created a new dream for humanity that transformed the world. Today, a new generation of Europeans is creating a radical, and worthy, new dream.


[edit on 9-12-2004 by Nox]



posted on Dec, 9 2004 @ 03:48 PM
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Godflesh,

Excellent post my friend!


This post is a big change from most of the non-sense posts on ATS.

The Michael Moore types really get under my skin. They twist the truth to represent their own opinions and leave the necessary facts out.



posted on Dec, 9 2004 @ 05:01 PM
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Thanks for the feedback guys!


Although, I find posts that don't follow the liberal agenda here on ATS don't get many replies.



posted on Dec, 9 2004 @ 05:01 PM
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I tried to get a total of the combined External debt of the EU from its member nations. It was not perfect as many of the numbers were old 2002 even 1998 in some cases I came up with about 3.5 trillion. Germany by far had the highest followed by countries like Spain and France.

At first I couldnt even find the debt numbers for Germany for some reason but someone on ATS helped my find them.

Norway was really good though with zero foriegn debt a great example not sure if it would work on a large scale though.

One thing you need to be a world super power is a super power military or your just a paper tiger when it comes down to it. Then you will see the debt skyrocket having a super power military aint cheap just ask the US and Russia.

[edit on 9-12-2004 by ShadowXIX]



posted on Dec, 9 2004 @ 05:25 PM
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Some quotes on the subject;

"24.9 percent of American children live in poverty, while the proportions in Germany, France and Italy are 8.6, 7.4 and 10.5 percent. And once born on the wrong side of the tracks, Americans are more likely to stay there than their counterparts in Europe. Those born to better-off families are more likely to stay better off. America is developing an aristocracy of the rich and a serfdom of the poor - the inevitable result of a twenty-year erosion of its social contract."
Will Hutton

"The U.S. continues to rank last among developed nations in official [international] development assistance, giving only 0.12% of GNP."
Friends Committee on National Legislation

"Americans tend to believe they have the best health care in the world, but in truth it is a second-rate system and destined to get a lot worse and much more expensive."
Donald Barlett and James Steele

"We are the only advanced nation without a national system of subsidized health care."
Elliott Currie, Crime and Punishment in America

" The political leadership of this country, as exemplified by the campaign positions of Bush and Kerry, has become so obsessed with our own security fears and so convinced of our own virtue that it has very little to offer in the way of positive socioeconomic development initiatives. To most of the people of Latin America, Africa and Asia, the United States has largely become irrelevant to their hopes for a better future -- except as a potential market for some of their goods or as a source of outsourced jobs."
Sherle Schewenninger

"The United States is a society in which people not only can get by without knowing much about the wider world but are systematically encouraged not to think independently or critically and instead to accept the mythology of the United States as a benevolent, misunderstood giant as it lumbers around the world trying to do good."
Robert Jensen, Citizens of Empire

"The United States is the greatest threat to world peace, and has been for a long time, and not merely because it is the world's only superpower. Equally important, the United States is also far more disposed to use its power than any other powerful nation currently is. Though Americans are culturally and emotionally blind to the fact, the mere intrusion of US power is, in and of itself, destabilizing."
T.D. Allman

"From 1945 to 2003, the United States attempted to overthrow more than 40 foreign governments, and to crush more than 30 populist-nationalist movements fighting against intolerable regimes. In the process, the US bombed some 25 countries, caused the end of life for several million people, and condemned many millions more to a life of agony and despair."
William Blum


"The fact that we've been a great democracy doesn't mean we will automatically keep being one if we keep waving the flag."
Norman Mailer

There's more to the greatness of a country than it's financial standing.



posted on Dec, 9 2004 @ 05:36 PM
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Anok, you supplied a lot of opinions, but very little facts. Your point on the US government killing millions since 1945 is a HUGE remark, yet you left out a source.

But most important, this thread was about the USA vs. EU in financial and unemployment terms -you posted doomsday quotes?


[edit on 9-12-2004 by GODFLESH]



posted on Dec, 9 2004 @ 05:38 PM
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Oh yeah we in the US are the Great Satan didnt you hear? I could find you loads of opinions that support it.

[edit on 9-12-2004 by ShadowXIX]



posted on Dec, 9 2004 @ 05:52 PM
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sry double post


[edit on 9/12/2004 by ANOK]



posted on Dec, 9 2004 @ 05:52 PM
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Originally posted by GODFLESH
Anok, you supplied a lot of opinions, but very little facts. Your point on the US government killing millions since 1945 is a HUGE remark, yet you left out a source.

But most important, this thread was about the USA vs. EU in financial and unemployment terms -you posted doomsday quotes?


Doomsday quotes, did you actualy read any of them?
They were all related to the US vs EU or vs anybody I think.


None of those were my "points", they are quotes. Take them as you wish.
I was just trying to make a point that there is more to a country than it's financial state. If a country is the richest in the world but it's treatment of it's citizens sucks, then can it still be considered the greatest country in the world? If you are to compare the US vs EU then you need to look beyond the big old $.
If some of those "points" in those quotes are addressed by the US administration then maybe I'll wave the US flag along with y'all.
And I'm sure if you really care about your country then a little research could prove or disprove any of those quotes. If they appear to be true then do something about it, don't just dismiss them as anti-American and look the other way. If they are not true then good, but at least you looked beyond the state fed propaganda.
Your government is not your country, you are. Take it back!

[edit on 9/12/2004 by ANOK]



posted on Dec, 9 2004 @ 06:15 PM
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excellent read but i will say something in the EU's defence, nothing happens overnight, the EU is still fresh, they're making moves to improve all its members economies. as a matter of fact to show the hurdles still present, Germany was unwilling to switch to the euro because other member nations caused the value to dip below that of the mark, but everything takes time, lets check it out in another 10 years or so, and heck if the U.S goes to war with china, then things would only get worse for us and reflect well on non-intervening nations like the EU i guess u can say they're banking on it. and i will also add that the U.S is trying to keep the EU from developing into something success, such as their attempts to block the EU galileo project (european GPS) with bs excuses stating its not necessary as the U.S has a system in place. and the U.S pressure to prevent the E.U from lifting the embargo against china which would bring billions to E.U nations, and thats just to name a few, aparently we (the U.S0 doesn't want anyone else sharing the spotlight



posted on Dec, 9 2004 @ 06:19 PM
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Originally posted by ANOK


Holy propaganda, Batman! Where to start?


"24.9 percent of American children live in poverty, while the proportions in Germany, France and Italy are 8.6, 7.4 and 10.5 percent. And once born on the wrong side of the tracks, Americans are more likely to stay there than their counterparts in Europe. Those born to better-off families are more likely to stay better off. America is developing an aristocracy of the rich and a serfdom of the poor - the inevitable result of a twenty-year erosion of its social contract."
Will Hutton


I dispute those numbers as well as the final point. I know many people who were born and raised poor and have turned things around and advanced their social standing and financial well-being on their own merits. That's what the United States is about. No one promises happiness, just the right to persue it.


"The U.S. continues to rank last among developed nations in official [international] development assistance, giving only 0.12% of GNP."
Friends Committee on National Legislation


Hmmmm. Official [international] development assistance? Is that where we give a lot of money to some orginization and never see any results but keep getting told that it's our fault that the situation doesn't improve? Anyway, we are such a larger country than most, so we usually end up giving more than anyone anyway.


"Americans tend to believe they have the best health care in the world, but in truth it is a second-rate system and destined to get a lot worse and much more expensive."
Donald Barlett and James Steele

"We are the only advanced nation without a national system of subsidized health care."
Elliott Currie, Crime and Punishment in America


We do believe our healthcare is the best in the world, because it is. I expect that is why people from other countries come here to go to medical school so often. Or do you equate "best" with "paid for"? You're right. It ain't free. The best never is. Nowhere in our Constitution does it say that anyone is to receive free healthcare.


" The political leadership of this country, as exemplified by the campaign positions of Bush and Kerry, has become so obsessed with our own security fears and so convinced of our own virtue that it has very little to offer in the way of positive socioeconomic development initiatives. To most of the people of Latin America, Africa and Asia, the United States has largely become irrelevant to their hopes for a better future -- except as a potential market for some of their goods or as a source of outsourced jobs."
Sherle Schewenninger


Please tell me how The United States is responsible for providing a better future for the people of Latin America, Africa, and Asia? What exactly did I miss here?


"The United States is a society in which people not only can get by without knowing much about the wider world but are systematically encouraged not to think independently or critically and instead to accept the mythology of the United States as a benevolent, misunderstood giant as it lumbers around the world trying to do good."
Robert Jensen, Citizens of Empire

"The United States is the greatest threat to world peace, and has been for a long time, and not merely because it is the world's only superpower. Equally important, the United States is also far more disposed to use its power than any other powerful nation currently is. Though Americans are culturally and emotionally blind to the fact, the mere intrusion of US power is, in and of itself, destabilizing."
T.D. Allman


You would prefer the Soviet Union I suppose?


"From 1945 to 2003, the United States attempted to overthrow more than 40 foreign governments, and to crush more than 30 populist-nationalist movements fighting against intolerable regimes. In the process, the US bombed some 25 countries, caused the end of life for several million people, and condemned many millions more to a life of agony and despair."
William Blum


It's interesting to note that in most of those places, we were (and still are) cleaning up messes that were left behind when the European Empires of Conquest collapsed.

Again, you would prefer the Soviet Union? Yeah, Europe was glad to have our bombs and troops when it was keeping the bear away, but now that a little time has passed they think they can complain and no one will remember who set the stage for today's geopolitical mine field and has been lining their pockets from the chaos ever since.


There's more to the greatness of a country than it's financial standing.


What exactly would that be? Please be specific. While you are at it, name the country that surpasses The United States in whatever criteria catagory you choose...



posted on Dec, 9 2004 @ 06:22 PM
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Good point kozmikduster the EU is still young so it has much potenial and anything worth doing is never easy.

About a war with the US and China I hope not it wont be good for anybodies economy. If the two go to war it will be a bad thing for everyone not just the US and China WW3 type stuff not good

[edit on 9-12-2004 by ShadowXIX]


Nox

posted on Dec, 9 2004 @ 06:38 PM
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Originally posted by ANOK
"The U.S. continues to rank last among developed nations in official [international] development assistance, giving only 0.12% of GNP."
Friends Committee on National Legislation


More bullcrap to tarnish the American name.
I'm pretty sure that statistic came from America's contribution to the finances of the UN bureaucratic processes.
There's actually a limit to how much can be donated (I suppose it's so other countries don't feel that their own contributions are insignificant compared to America's).
America is the only country to pay the limit. The next highest donor was France or Germany.

We pay for about 1/3 of global charities.



posted on Dec, 9 2004 @ 06:41 PM
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"official [international] development assistance" how much more comes from individual assistance to charities operating overeas?


Nox

posted on Dec, 9 2004 @ 07:13 PM
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Originally posted by cryptorsa1001
"official [international] development assistance" how much more comes from individual assistance to charities operating overeas?


What? You don't even ask about "individual assistance".

America already provides more assistance and charities to third worlders than any other country can even hope to do.

Don't let the UN blind you with their statistics.

Here's one example that's so often used:

The disparities over aid between the United States and its allies is a longstanding source of tension. U.S. aid contributions total about 0.1 percent of the nation's gross domestic product, the lowest among the Group of Seven major industrial countries. That amount compares with with an average 0.22 percent of GDP for all rich nations, with several European nations contribution about 1 percent of their GDP.

GEE, I WONDER why the US only contributes 0.1% of it's GDP to the UN and other countries like France and Germany (rich nations) contribute a whopping 0.22%?

If you haven't noticed, our GDP is a little more than 2.2 times more than France and Germany's. Taking into account that the UN actually has a cap on how much can be donated, it becomes a little more clear why the US is only donating 0.1% of their GDP doesn't it?

The US does more for the world than most other countries care to believe. Even IF you don't include private charities and individual contributions.

[edit on 9-12-2004 by Nox]



posted on Dec, 9 2004 @ 07:25 PM
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The figures you quoted from the CIA world factbook are estimates for this year. Based on a GDP of $11 Trillion, the debt as a percentage of GDP currently stands at 68.72%.

I got the figures for the Eurozone countries (note, eurozone, i.e. not including countries which have not adopted the single currency such as the UK) and their debt as % of GDP is 71.1%.

I just think taking on all this debt (from both perspectives) is stupid. Why not cut back on a few things and get it paid off? That'll save us all a bunch of cash on interest payments and hopefully help bring some stability to the global economy.

One other thing, the big economies in the eurozone are stagnant right now due to some poor policy making in the EU. When Germany and France get going the situation will hopefully improve, as will the situation in the US when they are no longer commited so heavily in Iraq and a few other places around the globe.

@Nox

Dude, if you want to take debt as a percentage of GDP, why is it unreasonable to take aid as a percentage of GDP?


Nox

posted on Dec, 9 2004 @ 07:32 PM
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Because the 1985 Palme initiative gives a cap to the maximum contribution by any member state, in particular this would have curbed the amount that the USA can contribute.

This means that it's unfair to say "oh, the US only pays 0.1% of its GDP". When in fact, it's paying more money than any other country.

Other countries LOOK like they're doing more because their GDPs are tiny compared to ours. Oh wow, 0.22%!! That's not as much compared to our own contributions when multiplied to their GDPs.



posted on Dec, 9 2004 @ 07:37 PM
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@Ambient Sound

1. Dispute all you want, show me some alternate numbers then.

2. Just another fallacy that ppl hang on to because we all like to be the best.
Americans are highly competitive on every level. You're not happy unless you are the center and top of everything.

3. The point of that quote wasn't whether the US has the best health care but it's the only country without subsidized health care. Again an example of a country where the big $ comes before it's populations welfare.
Life doesn't have to revolve around the $, all that benefits is those that already have it. A nation that only serves those who can afford it, yet through it's own system causes people to not afford it, is a country not committed to it's citizens. YOUR country wants YOU. No it wants what it can exploit from you.

4. Again you miss the point of the quote. Nobody expects the US to do anything. The point is Americans assume everyone else should think the same way about the US as they do. Yet many ppl of the world don't look at the US as the center of civilization and are not queuing up to live here.

5.
What's that supposed to mean? Obviously because I point out something wrong with the country I live in I would prefer to live in Russia?
I don't see communism as any better or worse than capitalism. They are both systems of slavery overseen by a evil and corrupt government.
Government comes in many names but it's still government!
But as this thread is about the US we shall continue.

6. Do you really think the US has any dealings with other countries unless it benefits from that in some way. There's a big fallacy that the US is the big helper of the world and without it all would have been lost.
Another interesting quote for ya;

" What would have happened if millions of American and British people, struggling with coupons and lines at the gas stations, had learned that in 1942 Standard Oil of New Jersey [part of the Rockefeller empire] managers shipped the enemy's fuel through neutral Switzerland and that the enemy was shipping Allied fuel? Suppose the public had discovered that the Chase Bank in Nazi-occupied Paris after Pearl Harbor was doing millions of dollars' worth of business with the enemy with the full knowledge of the head office in Manhattan [the Rockefeller family among others?] Or that Ford trucks were being built for the German occupation troops in France with authorization from Dearborn, Michigan? Or that Colonel Sosthenes Behn, the head of the international American telephone conglomerate ITT, flew from New York to Madrid to Berne during the war to help improve Hitler's communications systems and improve the robot bombs that devastated London? Or that ITT built the FockeWulfs that dropped bombs on British and American troops? Or that crucial balI bearings were shipped to Nazi-associated customers in Latin America with the collusion of the vice-chairman of the U.S. War Production Board in partnership with Goering's cousin in Philadelphia when American forces were desperately short of them? Or that such arrangements were known about in Washington and either sanctioned or deliberately ignored?"
Charles Higham, researcher, about U.S.-Nazi collaboration during WWII

7. Literacy Spectrum; www.arthurhu.com...
--------------------
Britain 100.00%
Germany 100.00%
Japan 100.00%
Switzerland 100.00%
New Zealand 99.80%
Australia 99.50%
Canada 99.00%
Russia 99.00%
France 99.00%
South Korea 97.40% 87.6%
Italy 97.40%
U.S. 95.50% 99.5% (UN) 97% (Newsweek 4/16/01)

Mortality rates;
www3.who.int...,strMortAdultFemale2002&english

US males have a lower life expectancy than 23 out of 35 nations.

US incarceration rate is 10-14 times higher than many industrialized nations.

US has a higher murder rate than all but two industrialized nations.

More here;
christianidentity.members.easyspace.com...

(edited for spelwing)

[edit on 9/12/2004 by ANOK]



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