Why do we have to work 40hrs a week?

originally posted by: arrakis624
Thought so.

Thought so what?!

I will not engage any further in this discussion with you for two reasons....

1) You already presumed (wrong) my current situation/circumstances.

2) Yes I do mind you asking, it is none of your business, my original comment was not aimed at you, I was not engaging you as an individual, yet you chose to engage me.

I owe you no explanations, I am entitled to my opinion just as you are to yours.

Your attitude is precisely why we as a society will never evolve from the current paradigm.

Your attitude being, judgemental without possession of all the facts.

I'll give you one freebie....I receive more each month in widows pension (private and taxable) than I receive in wages.

The world is an unequal place and will continue to be until there is a line drawn in the sand.

Talk like this is just a think tank tactic. Lowering everyone's hours will cause a couple things. The unemployment numbers will look good because people will have to get multiple jobs. These jobs will of course pay less. Also, because you only have 30 hours/week you will be considered part time and companies may not have to offer insurance.

If work was something good, they wouldn't pay you for doing it

a reply to: TamtammyMacx

Only if people are foolish enough to use the U3 employment number instead of the U6 which show underemployment as well. Some people counted on the U3 rate can be working as little as one hour a week and still be considered 'employed' for that statistic.

a reply to: SearchLightsInc

Q. Why do we have to work 40hrs a week?

A. Because we didn't like working 12 hours a day 6 days a week!

In the late 18th century, when companies started to maximize the output of their factories, getting to running them 24/7 was key. Now of course, to make things more efficient, people had to work more. In fact, 10-16 hour days were the norm.

These incredibly long work days weren’t sustainable and soon a brave man called Robert Owen started a campaign to have people work no more than 8 hours per day. His slogan was “Eight hours labour, eight hours recreation, eight hours rest.”

“One of the first businesses to implement this was the Ford Motor Company, in 1914, which not only cut the standard work day to eight hours, but also doubled their worker’s pay in the process. To the shock of many industries, this resulted in Ford’s productivity off of these same workers, but with fewer hours, actually increasing significantly and Ford’s profit margins doubled within two years. This encouraged other companies to adopt the shorter, eight hour work day as a standard for their employees.”

blog.bufferapp.com...

originally posted by: OpinionatedB

His slogan was “Eight hours labour, eight hours recreation, eight hours rest.”

Networkdude and I were U2Uing about this thread and he joked that maybe we should have worded Masonic Ritual differently. There is a piece explaining one of the tools of Masonry (the 24" gauge) which summarized is:

Eight hours for the service of God and a distressed worthy Brother, eight for our usual vocations and eight for refreshment and sleep.

I may dig around and see where this quote originates but at least in New Jersey it dates to the late 1700s early 1800s.

a reply to: Bluesma

Thats a better way

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Robert Owen said it in 1817.... where he got the idea I don't know, because in 1810 he was petitioning for a 10 hour work day instead of longer, then in 1817 came up with this 8 hour slogan, and its what took off...

a reply to: OpinionatedB

I wonder if he was a Mason or heard a Mason say this since the ritual I am citing precedes that date.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

It's possible, because in 1810 he was petitioning for the work day to be shortened to 10 hours, then in 1817 changed his mind and came up with the 8 hour slogan instead... which is what caught on...eventually.

Imagine the Zeitgeist Movement model: No 'school' but much true education at your own pace, not the pace of the slowest kid in the classroom; it's all in libraries and on the internet, except for crafts that require apprenticeships; the ability to train or educate yourself in any field of your choice, or dozens of fields, freely throughout your lifetime. No 'job' but more of a contribution to society that everyone freely gives, knowing that that contribution will also benefit themselves, say to the tune of 20 hours a week, more or less depending on ability, health, etc.

All absolute 'needs' given freely; food, clean water, housing, education, health care, travel; most routine, dangerous and boring work done by robots. Robots built and maintained by people who love that sort of thing and make that one of their 'job' choices... 3D printing available to everyone, along with 'once in a while' used goods available on loan from a central lending library - things like tennis rackets and canoes, tools, etc, all just like a book library. You don't need to have a big house because you don't need storage for the stuff you use only rarely, and the waste associated with producing all the stuff that no one uses that often is also eliminated. All goods produced (by robot mostly) built to the highest specifications for both long life as well as complete recyclability... this system would also have the byproduct of eliminating most crimes and the associated need for incarceration. No need to steal other people's stuff if you can get it freely yourself.

Advertising done away with completely, eliminating most urges to 'keep up with the Joneses'; more emphasis on knowledge, culture, free time and socialization, less on competition and acquisition of 'things'. Profit motive and capitalism and the need for constant 'growth' killed off completely as the evil idea that is truly is. You can't have 4% growth forever on a finite planet.

The whole idea is to think of ourselves as a traveling civilization through space, happening upon a virgin planet and that our first order of business would be to assess the available resources, and make use of them according to the tenet of sustainability, not consumption, destruction and despoilation; in other words, we're doing it all wrong now, and on top of that we've allowed ourselves to become slaves to a system where we are called consumers, and war is the name of the game, always and forever. It's evil and we need to get rid of the whole system. All we have to do is see the truth of our present situation and refuse to partake of it anymore.

a reply to: signalfire

I'd like to elect you functional overlord of the human race...

Sounds pretty good to me... but how would guys with small reproductive parts mate w/out "better stuff?"

The main conundrum... : /

a reply to: SearchLightsInc

You don't.

The majority of my life working for a salary, i have completed my weeks work in around 25 hours. Being a salary, and not having direct supervision duties in many cases (i manage from 20k feet), i could then reclaim that 15 hours/week as mine.

You can reduce your weekly labor easily by:

- being more efficient with your tasks
- choosing to "need" less, so you can earn less

Either works. Just depends on how you want to approach it.

a reply to: solargeddon

Goes who pays for your pension? Another example of what I'm talking about. Your attitude is why our society is the way it is. In my opinion if you have not worked for the money it is a form of legalized theft from those who have.

a reply to: arrakis624

Buddy you seem to be angry at the wrong crowd. Do you really think poor people or the unemployed masses choose to do nothing? Can you honestly say that the fact that our poor and needy reliance on our benefits system for there very survival is a form of theft?

Even if a small percentage of our unemployed choose to remain that way for extended periods of time its because of poor education, life choices and/or there inability to function in everyday society never mind employment. People don't choose to be poor or remain so, they are kept in that state essentially so people with power can enjoy the luxury's in life. Whole generations have been destroyed in this fashion just so the haves in this world can keep the have nots exactly where they want them.

There is an old saying that springs to mind "don't hate the player hate the game".

originally posted by: arrakis624
a reply to: solargeddon

Goes who pays for your pension? Another example of what I'm talking about. Your attitude is why our society is the way it is. In my opinion if you have not worked for the money it is a form of legalized theft from those who have.

Did you read the part about it being a private pension!

Did you read the part about it being a widows pension....that means my spouse had to die, for me to get the money!

You seriously need to go check yourself, I never asked for it, it was given to me!

Andy06shake is right, you want to make me responsible for you having to pay, I'm sorry I don't play that way.

In fact, you are being particulary cold hearted, I loved my husband, don't you think I'd rather he was still alive.

Have you never lost someone, where after their death you see someone of a similar build and mistake them for being your lost loved one?

Ever had days where you wished someone was still there, even for a little while to talk to?

I'm guessing not, I feel no guilt or shame, they belong to you.

On the plus side, you can always continue to bleat on about how unfair the world is because you might have to help others out, given that you may earn more, surely if your nose is put so far out of joint, perhaps you would consider joining what you would term "the great unwashed!"

Consider yourself blanked....how very dare you attack my loss!

The 40 hour work week was developed by Ford to keep production at it's peak potential, rotating shifts to pump out as many cars and product as possible.

I weld rail cars currently, we rotate three shifts, all of which are within a 44 work week. Sometimes we are asked to work more, but never less. And our last contract we pumped out 1500 3 channeled hopper cars in less than 3 months. Just to put things into perspective, I alone would weld about 150 ft of weld in 9 hours, times that by three (the other two guys who were doing exactly as I was) and that's not including all the other welding and fitting of the rail car involved.

I also worked at a place where I averaged 12 hours a day 5 days a week. the pay was nice, but it was long hard hours especially after the 10th hour or so, I found myself just sitting there letting my hands rest. Which supports the 40 hour work week.
Now, I have known guys who are in banking who work 90 some odd hours a week, and it's ridiculous. I have a hard enough time concentrating on not screwing up a weld with my brain, but these guys talk, and talk, and crunch and read ALL day, my brain would be fried.
People work way to hard for the services they give, whether it be a trade or a desk job. The guys paying for the skills offered just take advantage most of the time. It's rare that you find a good job that will pay good money, I've been lucky and thankfully I work in a trade where the experience counts 100% the more you have the more valuable you are and the more people will pay to get product moving. At the rail car place I was making 36 dollars an hour, plus over time, and got into a union, which means I can get a call back for work when ever, for as long as the union is still up.

Guys, would like to thank you all for taking part this thread. I have enjoyed reading your comments and it was nice to see there was barely any bickering between posters. Certainly has cheered me up!

Thanks guys.

WE don't. I don't want to go into a long diatribe I went through before. Just let me say it stems right back to the industrial revolution when the owners, bosses discovered machines could do the work instead. Back then they said "the machines will do your work for you and you will get more leisure time". We now know that was the biggest lie, even today. Yes the machines, computers do your work for you but instead of giving you the money those machines earn(which really should happen) and you do less hours the bosses say "why should i even employ that man when the machine is earning his money". Then the man gets sacked and the bosses earn more money hence multi millionaires that accumulate that money and poor people reap the consequences. Easy isn't it. But then again you have the American mentality"it's my firm so all the moneys mine".

a reply to: TrueBrit

Very well said. I feel the exact same way. I'd rather bust my butt knowing that what I did really was worthy, like you said, real and necessary. Not working in a restaurant or grocery store or some such just to make corporations rich, and they don't care a thing about their workers.