What would you expect from a NON virtual simulated universe?

At the core of all simulations and programs there are always rules to follow that lead you to your next outcome. Based on science haven't we observed that within our reality and our universe there are rules that are followed?

There are plenty of instances where we don't understand something but using scientific principles we are able to determine the outcome or existence of that unknown by following the rules of science and logic.

Example: Using scientific methods and adhering to our rules of science we discovered that Atoms existed before we could see them or that Dark Matter exists.

Rules would also be expected within a simulated environment and if you know the rules than you are able to predict or hack the system such as we did with discovering the atom and black matter.


In addition. Its unlikely that such a simulation would have nothing but unique lines of code. We should be seeing reusable code or signatures that is common in our universe and among entities. Don't we see this already accross species, mammals, male, female, reptiles, etc ...



In summary: I would think and expect that in a non simulated environment their would be less rules and more chaos.
In our universe their appears to be more rules than chaos. Especially, the more we understand about science and the universe and not the other way around.

Perhaps their is more evidence for simulation then for a non simulation (Chaos) universe? I'm beginning to question if their is more proof for a virtual simulation than for what we assumed as reality.

a reply to: interupt42

I find it fascinating that the distribution of all that exists seems to occur in patterns. How did the atoms of all elements just so happen to all form the way they did?

Also the golden ratio... I'm not a fan of the whole simulated existence theory, but it really seems like there's an algorithm at work. It's in so many places, I find it hard to believe that should be as common as it is if the chaos theory is correct.

a reply to: Mapkar

Golden ratio (an overwrought term) and chaos theory have nothing to do with one another.

a reply to: GetHyped

They do if you're willing to combine Physics, Quantum Physics, Metaphysics, and Mathematics/Geometry. Why is that every single shape, no matter the angles within or number of sides, adds up to 360? Every single snowflake is unique from every other snowflake to have ever fallen since the beginning of time, yet under a microscope is perfectly symmetrical within itself.

The Golden ratio states that a+b/a = a/b.

Many ancient artists used this ratio in their works because it is the most pleasing to the human perception. Why is that nature creates things in the Golden Ratio? We're told not to be selfish, but it seems like everything in this universe was made FOR US.

I produce music, and I've learned to realized not every mix is the same, but every mix has to follow the same rules in order to sound good. (Like a snowflake falling from the sky. All were made by the same process with different outputs)
Rules, rules, rules. Follow the rules, the universe advances.

Rules, ratios, coincidences, synchronity, patterns. It's only logical this system is controlled somehow.

f there was more rules than chaos then there would be practically nothing in the universe. no stars, planets , no galaxies and certainly no us..

a reply to: PhoenixOD

One instance of chaos produces an infinitum of rules. Computers are hurt when turned off and on. That is the instance of chaos. But yet, there is still something past the boot screen.

a reply to: Lynk3

No, it doesn't. Stringing together concepts with wishy washy logic does not make them linked.

a reply to: Lynk3
I agree with you. Everything is connected. It doesn't matter how convoluted it may appear to some people. Life sure is amazing!

originally posted by: PhoenixOD
f there was more rules than chaos then there would be practically nothing in the universe. no stars, planets , no galaxies and certainly no us..

Are you saying that the universe is not confined to rules nor our understanding of physics?

When a star , galaxy , planet , or even us is created a certain set of events must occur for it to exist, hence order and rules must be followed for that event to occur. Either wise, it would occur from nothing which would be Chaos or true randomness.

Come to think of it:

The fact that nothing can occur from nothing might be more proof that we could be living in a virtual environment, as everything in our universe is based on cause and effect like a program.

a reply to: GetHyped

Remember that schpeel in school where your teachers tried to persuade you everything you learned was needed no matter what profession you went into? I always thought it was bullcrap. Who needs mathematics and physics knowledge when making beats? It's all just click til it sounds good right?

Nah, turns out, you need basic knowledge of adding and subtracting waveforms. You need basic algebra knowledge that includes proportional ratios and frequency distribution. Music is like cooking is like dance is like construction is like physics. They all have their rules necessary to create balance and a working output.

Oh wait, sounds like our universe and the souls within.

a reply to: interupt42

In our universe their appears to be more rules than chaos. 

based on this statement, I submit to you that you do not understand "Chaos Theory". or rather, you hold the (unfortunate) common-man and unscientific understanding. I wrote a thread on it that may interest you: resonance: music, quantum, and chaos.

the single best piece of evidence showing that our experience of the universe is NOT simulated is outlined formally by Godel's Incompleteness Theorem, which is a mathematical statement of the classical "liars paradox" as seen in the following image: "This Statement Is False" .

the opening section of another thread of mine HERE explains the significance and implications of godel's brilliant logic. if you would like me to go more in depth, let me know.

a reply to: tgidkp

Almighty assuming one, Who said anything about chaos theory? All I said was Chaos my friend.

However, I'm not familiar with Godel's Incompleteness Theorem as you state as the single best piece of evidence showing that our experience of the universe is NOT simulated . So I thank you for that tidbit.

a reply to: Lynk3

But yet, there is still something past the boot screen.

your statement here is related to godel's theorem in the sense that a computer running a simulated universe will require a "button pusher"... and in our universe, or more precisely, our ontological position within the universe, WE are the button pushers.

a reply to: interupt42

why the hell are you being rude? I spent a lot of time composing that response.

I cannot accept your use of the word "chaos" outside of its proper definition. it would be good for you to be more precise in your own meaning, oh unclear one.

perhaps you mean "disorder" or the entropic drive toward disorder?

ETA: your misuse of the word does not mean that you would not benefit from reading the thread I posted.

a reply to: interupt42

Why must we be the button pushers?

If I create a virtual reality environment with advance AI technology that allows them to create their own environments, they would also think they are the button pusher from their perspective to a certain point of awareness or advancement. Would they not, if not why not?

originally posted by: tgidkp
a reply to: interupt42

why the hell are you being rude? I spent a lot of time composing that response.

You kidding right? Sorry but I took your reply as condescending, If you didn't mean like that then my apologies?

based on this statement, I submit to you that you do not understand "Chaos Theory". or rather, you hold the (unfortunate) common-man and unscientific understanding

I cannot accept your use of the word "chaos" outside of its proper definition. it would be good for you to be more precise in your own meaning, oh unclear one.

I used the dictionary meaning ": complete confusion and disorder " as in lack of rules

I would think and expect that in a non simulated environment their would be less rules and more chaos.

I would think and expect that in a non simulated environment their would be less rules and more chaos.
perhaps you mean "disorder" or the entropic drive toward disorder?

Yes disorder like the definition , I never said CHAOS THEORY.

Again, my apologies but like i said I took your initial response as condescending.

a reply to: interupt42

my use of "button pusher" is identical to the concept that from your own conscious position, there doesn't appear to be anything (anyone?) "behind" you. your apprehension of reality acts as a backstop to reality itself. consciousness is a one way street and "you" are standing at the top of the hill looking down.

you are the button pusher. your ability to consistently and without fail "jump outside the box" is the resolution of godel's liars paradox. this idea is treated at length in "godel escher bach" by Douglas hofstadter.

a reply to: tgidkp

Look forward to further discussing with you at a later time. but I running late to coach a little league football practice.

a reply to: interupt42

Are you saying that the universe is not confined to rules nor our understanding of physics?

No, thats not what i said.

I seem to remember something about the presence of the golden ratio in fractal patterns which themselves are integral to chaos theory. So golden ratio»fractals»chaos theory? Just my two cents. reply to: GetHyped