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Israel is Lost

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posted on Dec, 9 2004 @ 02:25 PM
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I wouldn't worry too much about Israel. He hasn't been convicted, yet, but look at these charges.



The officer, who has not been named, is charged with two counts of illegal use of a weapon, two counts of inappropriate behavior and exceeding his authority and one count of obstruction of justice.
www.spacewar.com...


If he's convicted, I think he can expect a stiff fine, some brig time, and a less than honorable discharge, if that. I really sounds like he is really guilty of making an ugly situation worse and it doesn't sound like anyone is being prosecuted for wrongful death, manslaughter, or murder.

If the Palestinians didn't use children to carry explosives, this wouldn't have happened.



[edit on 04/12/9 by GradyPhilpott]




posted on Dec, 9 2004 @ 02:27 PM
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Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
If the Palestinians didn't use children to carry explosives, this wouldn't have happened.


By your own logic, if the Israelis didn't keep Palestinians confined in the open air concentration camps (Gaza etc), and didn't occupy the West bank, the children wouldn't be carrying explosives.



posted on Dec, 9 2004 @ 02:29 PM
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Originally posted by Aelita

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
If the Palestinians didn't use children to carry explosives, this wouldn't have happened.


By your own logic, if the Israelis didn't keep Palestinians confined in the open air concentration camps (Gaza etc), and didn't occupy the West bank, the children wouldn't be carrying explosives.


More logic, Jordan was established to put the palestinians in by the UN in 1948. Why aren't they there?



posted on Dec, 9 2004 @ 02:30 PM
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If the Palestinians didn't use children to carry explosives, this wouldn't have happened.


If Israel did not occupy thier land, it would not have happened; and, if Palenstine had the biggest superpower in history backing it with military aid, I am sure it would not have occured either way.

Circulatory logic does not work to well in this case. Don't you think?

We can deconstruct the chain of events all we want, but the fact stands: She was unarmed and considered innocent, he decided to let his hubris get the better of him.

Coming from you, I expected a bit more rational.

Deep



posted on Dec, 9 2004 @ 02:31 PM
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Originally posted by Aelita
By your own logic, if the Israelis didn't keep Palestinians confined in the open air concentration camps (Gaza etc), and didn't occupy the West bank, the children wouldn't be carrying explosives.


By my logic, no one should be using children as combatants. Don't put words in my mouth.



posted on Dec, 9 2004 @ 02:34 PM
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Originally posted by GradyPhilpott

Originally posted by Aelita
By your own logic, if the Israelis didn't keep Palestinians confined in the open air concentration camps (Gaza etc), and didn't occupy the West bank, the children wouldn't be carrying explosives.


By my logic, no one should be using children as combatants. Don't put words in my mouth.


Finally we get to the whole point here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



posted on Dec, 9 2004 @ 02:35 PM
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Originally posted by DrHoracid

OK, slowly now. How did the commander know she was not a threat? Have you been in a similar position? How do you know?


Other soldiers identified Iman (the name of the 13 year old schoolgirl) from the beginning as a non threat. Quote: www.guardian.co.uk...

"...The soldier in the watchtower radioed his colleagues after he saw Iman: "It's a little girl. She's running defensively eastward."

Operations room: "Are we talking about a girl under the age of 10?"

Watchtower: "A girl of about 10, she's behind the embankment, scared to death."

A few minutes later, Iman is shot in the leg from one of the army posts.

The watchtower: "I think that one of the positions took her out."

The company commander then moves in as Iman lies wounded and helpless ..."


...And emptied his clip on the helpless child.


Blobber

[edit on 9-12-2004 by Blobber]



posted on Dec, 9 2004 @ 02:56 PM
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By my logic, no one should be using children as combatants. Don't put words in my mouth.


You insinuated it firstly. Granted, this still does not exclude that this soldier murded an innocent child, of this, even you cannot disregard.

Deep



posted on Dec, 9 2004 @ 03:11 PM
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So why is Israel lost because of this? They ARE prosecuting this guy. HES ON TRIAL FOR GOODNESS SAKE! Hes going to get punished for his crime. One sicko does not a society make.

Youre all going to tell me the Palestinians are angels that never target children or women? Should we condemn all Palestinians as a sick lost people because of the actions of a few.



[edit on 12/9/2004 by MrNice]



posted on Dec, 9 2004 @ 03:19 PM
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Originally posted by MrNice
So why is Israel lost because of this? They ARE prosecuting this guy. HES ON TRAIL FOR GOODNESS SAKE! Hes going to get punished for his crime. One sicko does not a society make.


for the crimes of a few palistinian millitants the israeli punish the whole of the palistinains.


Originally posted by MrNice
Youre all going to tell me the Palestinians are angels that never target children or women?


neither are the israeli's they kill 100 times more then the palistinains have



posted on Dec, 9 2004 @ 04:19 PM
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Originally posted by DrHoracid
"

The point to this post is that Israel has lost their mind. They are becoming PC and will now lose their country. There is no CRIME here. The commander should not be on trial.


Israel lost.... at least not collectively, this seems an isolated horrid case.

PoliticalCorrectness... in my view, the Israel rule of law, is attempting to uphold the greater Humanistic Imperative...the unjustified desecration of a body.

WHAT ? would be a miscarriage of justice?, & 'P.C. Exercised'?...

It will be the 'verdict and punishment metted out'......
i see a no-win situation, because the "life-for-a-life"
will not be the fitting punishment !

CRIME + trial...perhaps you should introspect on your world-view, in both the 'compartmentalized' aspect of this (vile) incident....and in the larger context (which only sprials into mutual-self-destruction)

* you might engage ones' self at this site: www.meru.org...
some essays deal with the humanities & such & are interesting
[at least to me]...maybe you will find more material to address.

#9



posted on Dec, 9 2004 @ 06:11 PM
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Originally posted by St Udio

Originally posted by DrHoracid
"

The point to this post is that Israel has lost their mind. They are becoming PC and will now lose their country. There is no CRIME here. The commander should not be on trial.


Israel lost.... at least not collectively, this seems an isolated horrid case.

PoliticalCorrectness... in my view, the Israel rule of law, is attempting to uphold the greater Humanistic Imperative...the unjustified desecration of a body.

WHAT ? would be a miscarriage of justice?, & 'P.C. Exercised'?...

It will be the 'verdict and punishment metted out'......
i see a no-win situation, because the "life-for-a-life"
will not be the fitting punishment !

CRIME + trial...perhaps you should introspect on your world-view, in both the 'compartmentalized' aspect of this (vile) incident....and in the larger context (which only sprials into mutual-self-destruction)

* you might engage ones' self at this site: www.meru.org...
some essays deal with the humanities & such & are interesting
[at least to me]...maybe you will find more material to address.

#9


By putting this guy on trial, or any soldier at war for "war crimes" is idiotic. Soldiers kill people and break things, period. How many Israeli soldiers will "hesitate" and die during a suicide attack from a girl the same age. Hamas is not below doing such a thing. They are vile inhuman murderers. Remember this post WHEN it happens not if.



posted on Dec, 9 2004 @ 06:19 PM
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Originally posted by DrHoracid
How many Israeli soldiers will "hesitate" and die during a suicide attack from a girl the same age. Hamas is not below doing such a thing. They are vile inhuman murderers. Remember this post WHEN it happens not if.


Wow. You are really bent on the idea of preemptively killing muslim kids.



posted on Dec, 9 2004 @ 06:27 PM
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Originally posted by Aelita

Originally posted by DrHoracid
How many Israeli soldiers will "hesitate" and die during a suicide attack from a girl the same age. Hamas is not below doing such a thing. They are vile inhuman murderers. Remember this post WHEN it happens not if.


Wow. You are really bent on the idea of preemptively killing muslim kids.


No, murder is wrong, period. Hamas is mudering "muslim kids". Self preservation is the strongest human emotion. If I had my way I would preemptively STOP all murder.



posted on Dec, 9 2004 @ 06:45 PM
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This guy is going to trial in Israel

You know just like the Palestinians do when one of theirs kills an Israeli right? Or how about when they strap bombs on their kids and kill them threrselves?

What do they do when a Bomber kills a school bus full of children? Oh yeah they dance in the street but they are just poor misunderstood freedom fighters right?

Both sides are murdering children and any one taking EITHER side is a hypocrite

[edit on 9-12-2004 by Amuk]



posted on Dec, 9 2004 @ 11:31 PM
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I dont see how saying that the actions of the soldier were wrong is taking sides in the matter. Just because one side does something does not make it justifed when the other side does it as well. The whole reason we have the Israel Palestine situation is because both sides feel their actions are a justified response. the only way there will be peace in this region is if the people involved take a step back and punish the madmen within their ranks.

To say that the soldiers actions are justified because "Soldiers kill people and break things, period." and "you were'nt there so you dont know what its like" is ridiculous. By that logic the Nazis were justified for their massacres because "Soldiers kill people and break things, period." and who knows maybe all those jews really deserved to be killed because "you were'nt there so you dont know what its like".

Besides any policy that states that a child walking away from you is a threat and should be shot without thought is just plain stupid in my opinion.

[edit on 9-12-2004 by boogyman]



posted on Dec, 10 2004 @ 03:03 AM
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Originally posted by boogyman
By that logic the Nazis were justified for their massacres because "Soldiers kill people and break things, period." and who knows maybe all those jews really deserved to be killed because "you were'nt there so you dont know what its like".


Amen to that. I have already made this parallel between the US forces and Nazi's. You will find the topic an interesting read: "Nazi America: And The Truth shall set you free" in my signature.

What may disturb you further, that even the jews in Nazi Germany, were thinking the same as these people here who are justifying murders of innocent children for the Nazi's "they're not all bad" Yet there people like you and me, who were crying foul, but they did not listen. What happened next is history.

What our citizens of America do not seem to understand, that these same people are coming back to our country and doing the same. They are gunning down old ladies, shooting children dead with tasers, because they suspect them of "terrorism." History will repeat itself. Thanks to the citizens of America. Ah well, you could call it universal recycling.



posted on Dec, 10 2004 @ 03:09 AM
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Originally posted by boogyman
the only way there will be peace in this region is if the people involved take a step back and punish the madmen within their ranks.


Maybe they could try having the Palestinians legislate and police the Israelis, and the Israelis legislate and police Palestinians.
Just for a year or so.
To see if it works...


*edit for spelling

[edit on 10-12-2004 by quango]



posted on Dec, 10 2004 @ 03:23 AM
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Maybe us should stop helping israelis and we would see what would happen then. Now they are nuclear armed maniac state in the middle of middle east...Palestinians are just like tsechenians...small nations people trying to survive from the attack of a big country...just like iraq..and you call them insurgents/terrorist. BS they are just defending whats rightfully theirs. I would do the same thing if some country would attack again to here,the cold north of the world.
-ap



posted on Dec, 10 2004 @ 03:41 AM
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I dont know what to say to u DR horcid, with these thoughts of urs u should be on trail just next to that sick Ba*stard. is nt it enough that israel are killing all those pal people with the financial and military aid for US and u tell me its okay and its no big deal. what would u say if it happened to ur young sister or maybe in the future to ur little daughter.


Common u want to convince me that they thought that a 13 years old school girl RUNNING AWAY as a threat. man, if they were scared of a little girl they should not be handeled guns cuz they will shoot each other. Man, hamas is fighting back , its their land.

Now, let me tell u i am origilnally syria u call me one of the bad guys but i dont hate jews we have alot of jews in syria they are good people but look at those sick people in israel. kill a guy who is fighting u . not babies. not school girls. trust me a 13 years old wont be even capable of carrying explosives. even if she did wont be running away she would at least run towards.


if u will still think in this way i just hope that u would taste some of this although i wouldnt want any little girl to face this again.



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