UK, Europe on collision course over €2.1bn bill

originally posted by: Dabrazzo
a reply to: flammadraco

Actually I agree with everything Korg has said on this thread as I'm sure do others.

Again i shall post this link to help you, much like Korg you may need help understanding the debt situation in the UK.

United Kingdom national debt


Now where Korg might have went wrong, and you may also, on the graphs on the right hand side, when the colours go up that means an increase, not a decrease.

I suggest you research a little deeper than putting uk nat debt into google and linking a wiki page..

Why not try understanding the data from say The Office of National Statistics

It is a volatile world out there and given Labour's complete economic incopitence we have had to work with a new benchmark of higher Debt to GDP ratio than before Labour came to power.

However the stats speak for themselves we are growing at 3.2% whereas the other European countries economies are growing at less and 0.2% Or are in recession.

Please please please educate yourself before splurting out values you do not understand.

Korg.

originally posted by: Dabrazzo
a reply to: Korg Trinity

Budget and debt to GDP are two entirely different things. This may be helpful reading.

BBC News Knowledge economy

Its a good place to start.

REally.....

Government Budget is an itemized accounting of the payments received by government (taxes and other fees) and the payments made by government (purchases and transfer payments). A budget deficit occurs when an government spends more money than it takes in. The opposite of a budget deficit is a budget surplus. This page provides - United Kingdom Government Budget - actual values, historical data, forecast, chart, statistics, economic calendar and news. Content for - United Kingdom Government Budget - was last refreshed on Sunday, October 26, 2014.

Source: Trading Economics

So you concur then that the government has indeed made budget cuts??

How about our GDP growth against say Germany??



Hmmmmm and so Germany is getting a rebate and the UK is getting a 1.7 billion pound bill???

Korg.

a reply to: Korg Trinity

You do not seem to understand what Debt-to-GDP ratio actualy means.

That is imperative to know before engaging in any discussion about the UK's debt to GDP.

It is a fact the UK's debt to GDP is increasing. If you can provide a source that refutes this, fair enough. I cannot find one, I would like our to debt to GDP to be decreasing but it isnt.

Theres also the matter that it doesnt actualy matter if our economy is increasing because if its the debt that is fueling that increase its pointless. Labour screwed us by doing exactly that.

a reply to: Dabrazzo

But this is the fault of Labour leaving the country broke before the Coalition government took over and what has any of this got to do with the EU demanding more money from the British Tax payer?

Leave the EU now and give the 8 billion savings to the NHS.

originally posted by: Dabrazzo
a reply to: Korg Trinity

You do not seem to understand what Debt-to-GDP ratio actualy means.

That is imperative to know before engaging in any discussion about the UK's debt to GDP.

It is a fact the UK's debt to GDP is increasing. If you can provide a source that refutes this, fair enough. I cannot find one, I would like our to debt to GDP to be decreasing but it isnt.

Theres also the matter that it doesnt actualy matter if our economy is increasing because if its the debt that is fueling that increase its pointless. Labour screwed us by doing exactly that.

You are over simplifying the economy.

When I said Benchmark I meant that we have less headroom to maneuver that we did pre labour. Even so... George Osborn has managed to get our economy on the up with 3.2% growth in GDP this year... a stabilized inflation rate.

When the conservatives came to power it was like inheriting a ship that was taking on water. They have to exhert energy in bailing out the water...

Now if they had inherited a ship that was water tight, they wouldn't have needed to borrow and even had they needed to borrow it wouldn't have looked half as bad.

all the stats I have shown you are supposed to show you that the government borrowed only a few percent over the labour borrowing levels, this is not to say they actually borrowed more than labour, for if they borrowed at the same rate we would now be twice as bad and be at 160% of GDP.

The fact that government debt rises is normal over a trend, so long as the economy can sustain it and it has taken some doing to get our economy growing again.

Do you understand?

Korg.

originally posted by: LeBombDiggity


Keep your money, £1.7 billion is a price well worth paying to be rid of the British.

If there is anything YOU can do to speed up our exit from The E.U. then feel free to do so.

One thing i hate more than anything is that British Taxpayers money being paid to French Farmers, to overproduce fruit and vegetables; and then just leave them to rot.

One of the biggest scandals in the E.U. is the amount of subsides paid to French Farmers. The U.K. needs to get out of The E.U. as fast as possible. Hopefully that will be by 2017. Then we can see how the E.U. copes without The U.K's. £8 billion contribution each year.

a reply to: Korg Trinity

Yes but none of that changes the fact our debt to GDP is increasing. For whatever reason you said it is the complete opposite?, I find that rather baffling.

And comparative to labour, regardless of what George Osbourne, quite literaly the worst Chancellor in the history of the UK has done, the debt to GDP is far more than at any time under Labour.

So no, I do not understand why you believe the UK debt to GDP is decreasing.

First of all; David Cameron IS a complete arsehole.
He is spiteful, uncaring and needlessly targeting the most vulnerable in our society.

But that's all pretty much irrelevant with regards to this.

He is spouting nothing but political spin.
He hasn't said 'he' won't pay it, only that the amount will not be paid by the deadline set by the EU.

As usual there will be the usual public war or words and some sort of 'compromise' will be reached and each side will claim victory.

The reality is that the UK gains very little from being in the EU.
I see no physical evidence of EU investment in the UK.
Whenever I visit other UK nations there are countless buildings, initiatives, investments etc quite visibly funded by the EU - I admit I could be wrong, but I see nothing here.

As others have noted, the UK voted for entry into a free trade association - political union was never openly on the agenda.
The transferal of sovereignty to Brussels has been nothing short of treason and all Prime Ministers from Heath onwards and our Monarch have actually been complicit in this treason.

We need a honest, open and frank public discussion on continued membership of the EU and a subsequent referendum - not in 2017 but now, immediately.
Only then will the UK be able to move forward either as a full member of the EU taking up a prominent role in its running or as a trade associate of the EU.

I have very little regard for our own political institutions and procedures but the EU is rotten to the core with corruption and cronyism whilst being dominated by those who have an almost evangelical belief in their own particular vision of European Federalism.

One of the most ironic things about this demand is that it is largely due to the continued rise of the 'black economy', something which our own government has been unable to tax - but apparently the EU can?

Cameron should have the balls to say, with conviction, NO, we are not paying it, full stop. What are you going to do about it?
Sure as night follows day that is exactly what either France or Germany would do under similar circumstances.

a reply to: Freeborn

Well said, star and a pretend Flag

originally posted by: Dabrazzo
a reply to: Korg Trinity

Yes but none of that changes the fact our debt to GDP is increasing. For whatever reason you said it is the complete opposite?, I find that rather baffling.

And comparative to labour, regardless of what George Osbourne, quite literaly the worst Chancellor in the history of the UK has done, the debt to GDP is far more than at any time under Labour.

So no, I do not understand why you believe the UK debt to GDP is decreasing.

I know you don't, its clear you don't understand.

You see the national debt is accumulative and compound. if you start with 0 and borrowed at 2% with 2% interest by the end of year one you would have 2.04% debt. If you did the same in the year after you would be at 4.12%....

Now imagine you borrowed only 1% in the next year you would have 5.22% and 0% the year after would be 5.32%

So the figures are: -

year 1 = 2.04%
year 2 = 4.12%
year 3 = 5.22%
Year 4= 5.32%

Your argument is that the government borrowing is growing.... yes it is but at a rate far less than it did when labour was in power. Even when government borrowing in our example is zero the debt to gdp still rises.

Can you see now?

Korg.

The French want our money but they won't impose change on their proven old fashined and failed economy. Cameron should say "you can't have our money as you haven't reformed your economy as the British have done." Indeed all Europe should go through what Cameron and Osborne have done for Britain. Throwing more dosh at France and all the other joke countries economies in the EU is only putting off their inevitable deaths. Any money can only be given if serious economic reforms are carried out. If they don't reform then what do we in Britain do?

originally posted by: alldaylong

originally posted by: LeBombDiggity


Keep your money, £1.7 billion is a price well worth paying to be rid of the British.

If there is anything YOU can do to speed up our exit from The E.U. then feel free to do so.

One thing i hate more than anything is that British Taxpayers money being paid to French Farmers, to overproduce fruit and vegetables; and then just leave them to rot.

One of the biggest scandals in the E.U. is the amount of subsides paid to French Farmers. The U.K. needs to get out of The E.U. as fast as possible. Hopefully that will be by 2017. Then we can see how the E.U. copes without The U.K's. £8 billion contribution each year.

It's not really big news the UK is and never was truly a part of the EU. Maybe a psychological issue from being so isolated, floating around with no true neighbours, too wealthy and weak at the same time?
Well pay your bills and feel free to never come back to this establishment ever again.
This pub is closing, final round, mates!

a reply to: Peeple

We may think we won the Second World War. But we lost. It is no surprise that we are all living in the Fourth Reich.

Knowingly or not those who support and defend the European Union are supporting the Nazi legacy.

It is impossible to find a difference between Hitler's plan for a new United States of Europe, dominated by Germany, and the European Union we have today.

Google "The Fourth Reich" and see what big German corporations said in the days following the end of World War 2, and British Soldiers died to prevent this from happening and we've all handed our sovereign power to Brussels on a platter. IMHO, anyone supporting what the EU stands for should hang their heads in shame that their forefathers fought to prevent this.

a reply to: flammadraco

Does it rain from the ground to the sky where you live? So now I know this is another thread I don't have to read anymore. Every f*+-%# time I mention Germany to one of you dumb incest rafters, I get called Nazi, that's so poor, seriously, without the US you people wouldn't exist anymore, so do me a favour, leave the EU, or even better the whole human society.

a reply to: Peeple

Stop spitting your dummy out and getting personal. No one was calling you a Nazi. I was pointing out that the EU we have today is exactly what Hitler and the Nazis had in mind for after the war.

No need to bring what the U.S. has done for everyone as this thread is about the UK and EU but if you want to start another thread on how much the U.S. has helped the World, I'm sure it will be filled with folk more than happy to educate you on your history.

Incest rafters? Is that a European version of a Red Neck?

Edit - you say without the U.S. we would not exist anymore! Without us Brits, France would be German now, not once but twice. Don't slag the Brits off, we've more balls than most EU countries will ever have. Think you'll find in your local library that the Brits went to war with Germany to protect France and other EU nations long before the U.S. stepped in after Pearl Harbour. Learn your history then form an opinion!

Cameron didnt say he wouldnt pay the bill, just that he wouldnt pay in December.

I pray for Cameron Psalm 109:7-17

The banking stress test was just on the devil box and 14 in the Eurozone are in trouble while those in the U.K passed with flying colours the E.U is still pissed about us knocking back a 1 % tax on the banks .

a reply to: flammadraco

Thanks for the laugh. I am pro Union, so I feel like you're calling me Nazi. That's funny. Quite the opposite of what Hitler wanted + founded to keep us from trying to take over world domination. Take your own advice and check out some historical facts, silly red-neck, you
Bavaria and Austria for rulers of the world, yippieah! And with that I'll go and have a nice drink, to you, prost.

originally posted by: flammadraco
a reply to: Peeple

We may think we won the Second World War. But we lost. It is no surprise that we are all living in the Fourth Reich.

Knowingly or not those who support and defend the European Union are supporting the Nazi legacy.

It is impossible to find a difference between Hitler's plan for a new United States of Europe, dominated by Germany, and the European Union we have today.

Google "The Fourth Reich" and see what big German corporations said in the days following the end of World War 2, and British Soldiers died to prevent this from happening and we've all handed our sovereign power to Brussels on a platter. IMHO, anyone supporting what the EU stands for should hang their heads in shame that their forefathers fought to prevent this.

Yes it's so true, it's scary. The only difference being that what couldn't be achieved by a political far right stance has been achieved using an extreme left stance. There have been some compromises, but they finally worked out a way to achieve a German empire.

And yes we can go on about Brussels, but we all know who really pull the strings here.

a reply to: Peeple

Then you need a better understanding of English as I said; "knownly or not, they are supporting a Nazi Legacy". Operative word would be "Supporting".

I believe if you dig a little deeper into the history of the EU, you'll find the Rothchilds family right at the start of your search. Then checkout what the Nazis planned for the 4th Reich and you'll see it's exactly where the EU is heading.

You may be pro Union but your fellow countrymen had a referendum since the 1970's where as us Brits do NOT want a political union just a trade Union, if that is too hard for you to understand then that's your issue.