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Putin Says Russia Helped Yanukovych to Escape Ukraine (Ukraine borders illegal - Crimea)

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posted on Oct, 29 2014 @ 05:27 AM
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a reply to: maghun

The agreement signed by the former President and the parliament, in addition to calling for new elections, immediately reverted back the 2004 Constitution (and by immediate, it means just that. There was no time frame for it and there was no law needed. It became effective once the agreement was signed).

Under the 2004 Constitution, it allowed for impeachment using the existing language as well as a streamlined process, which is the part that people are not familiar with.

Voice of Russia - Constitutional reform may downgrade Yanukovych to figurehead president -




Ukraine’s MPs are due to take up drafts constitutional reform today, the drafts that have been prepared by the Batkivshchina and UDAR party factions. The opposition insists on a return to the constitution of 2004 and on setting limits on presidential powers. Meanwhile, the EU Foreign Ministers are due to meet in Brussels this Monday to discuss the situation in Ukraine. Sweden and Poland will come up with their proposals on changing the stand on Ukraine.


Besides a return to the old constitution, the drafts provide for a simplified system of impeachment and voting, and also deprive the President of any role to play in the Constitutional Court lineup. The opposition feels the Court should be formed by the MPs and a congress of Ukraine’s judges. Unlike the constitution of 2004, which restricted presidential powers, the currently presented draft actually turns Yanukovych into a figurehead President, says the Director of the Institute for Strategic Planning, Alexander Gusev, and elaborates.

“The changes under discussion will largely trim the presidential powers, reducing his function to receiving credentials from foreign Ambassadors. The President’s duties will boil down to representing Ukraine during receptions. He will de facto stop being Head of State, with all powers due to be transferred to Parliament”.


How do we know the 2004 return and simplified impeachment is valid?

Voice of Russia - Ukraine: Yanukovych signs deal on ending crisis, Rada reinstates 2004 Constitution


The following is the text of the agreement signed by Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych and opposition leaders in the presence of EU envoys to end the ex-Soviet country's three-month crisis.

1. Within 48 hours of the signing of this agreement, a special law will be adopted, signed and promulgated, which will restore the Constitution of 2004 including amendments passed until now. Signatories declare their intention to create a coalition and form a national unity government within 10 days thereafter.

2. Constitutional reform, balancing the powers of the President, the government and parliament, will start immediately and be completed in September 2014.

3. Presidential elections will be held as soon as the new Constitution is adopted but no later than December 2014. New electoral laws will be passed and a new Central Election Commission will be formed on the basis of proportionality and in accordance with the OSCE & Venice commission rules.

4. Investigation into recent acts of violence will be conducted under joint monitoring from the authorities, the opposition and the Council of Europe.

5. The authorities will not impose a state of emergency. The authorities and the opposition will refrain from the use of violence.


*** A portion was removed by me as it dealt with actions taken under part 5 - the link has the full text ***



6. The Foreign Ministers of France, Germany, Poland and the Special Representative of the President of the Russian Federation call for an immediate end to all violence and confrontation.


The simplified impeachment process was valid and lawful under the Ukrainian Constitution.


Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych has announced that, to settle the crisis in Ukraine, he will initiate the reinstatement of the 2004 constitution and call early presidential elections. He also called for starting the procedure of forming a government of national confidence. "I am announcing steps that need to be made in order to restore peace and avoid more victims of the standoff," Yanukovych said in a statement available on the presidential website on Friday.

"These tragic days when Ukraine has taken the gravest losses and when people has died my duty is to state that human lives are very important. We should do our best to take joint steps to restore peace in Ukraine," Yanukovych said.

"I declare the steps that should be taken to restore calm and avoid new victims," the Ukrainian president said.

"I state that I initiate early presidential elections and return the 2004 Constitution by redistributing powers from the president to the parliament," Yanukovych said.


Yes the return to the 2004 Constitution was valid / lawful.
Yes the impeachment using the simplified process from the 2004 Constitution was valid / lawful.
The impeachment process followed the law as the bill was introduced by Parliament, and was actually authored by Nikolay Rudkovskiy, head of the Socialist Party in Ukraine, which is part of the ruling Party of Regions coalition. The Party of Regions was the party of former President Yanukovych.

Since people have issues using western sources, the above are all Russian sources. The Constitutional changes were discussed by Russian media in 2010/20/12, noting the changes in how parliament was elected would most likely result in parties coming together to impeach the former President. He had been under investigation for a few years prior to all the mess we have now over corruption charges.

Finally - Library of Congress - Ukraine: Simplified Impeachment Procedures - Link 1
Library of Congress - Ukraine: Simplified Impeachment Procedures - Link 2


(Feb 03, 2009) On January 15, 2009, the Ukrainian legislature, the Verkhovna Rada, adopted the Law on Special Temporary Investigative Commissions, which simplifies the procedure for the legislative body to impeach the President. Previously, the impeachment procedure could be initiated on the basis of a petition signed by three-quarters of the parliamentarians. The new Law provides that the formation of a Special Investigative Commission is the formal beginning of the impeachment process. Such a Commission must be formed upon the request of a simple majority of the Rada's members. The original sponsors of a bill on the creation of a Special Investigative Commission cannot recall their signatures and withdraw the proposed bill. Legal justification and evidential materials must accompany the bill. The Law requires the Commission to finish its investigation within a three-month period, although the first report must be submitted to the Rada no later than at the end of the second month of its work. If the Commission's conclusion is supported by the Rada, the case will be submitted to the Supreme and Constitutional Courts.

Continued below
edit on 29-10-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)




posted on Oct, 29 2014 @ 05:27 AM
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(Cont)
a reply to: maghun


A Commission is formed from among Members of the Rada who represent the existing parliamentary factions proportionally, plus a special prosecutor and three special investigators. Members of the Rada can be appointed as the special prosecutor and as the investigators. (Rada Simplified the Impeachment Procedure,GAZETA.RU, Jan. 15, 2009, available at www.gazeta.ru...)

Author: Peter Roudik More by this author

Topic: Legislative power More on this topic

Jurisdiction: Ukraine More about this jurisdiction

Gazeta - Russian-
**The article below was translated using the microsofttranslator program.

Rada has simplified the procedure of impeachment

01/15/2009 19:23 | Ria "Novosti"

The Verkhovna Rada adopted the draft law on the ad hoc investigatory commissions, which simplifies the procedure of impeachment of the President.

The adoption of law 408 Lawmakers voted 226 votes required. In Parliament recently, repeatedly sounded calls for impeachment of President Viktor Yushchenko. To declare impeachment requires the support of three-fourths of the constitutional composition of the Parliament, in which 450 places.

A bill on the special temporary investigative commissions supported 171 of 175 deputies from the party of regions faction, 155 of the 156 deputies from the Yulia Tymoshenko Bloc, 36 of the 72 members of the pro-presidential faction "Our Ukraine-people's Self-Defense bloc, all 27 Communists and 19 of 20 deputies of the faction of the bloc of Lytvyn.

The Bill regulates the legal status and operating procedure of commissions of inquiry for impeachment proceedings.


Deal with that.


edit on 29-10-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 29 2014 @ 08:11 AM
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a reply to: Xcathdra

Shorter, please!


To remove the president from power, at least three-quarters of Rada members must assent.

The Rada didn’t follow this procedure at all. No investigatory commission was established and the Courts were not involved. On 22 February, the Rada simply passed a bill removing President Yanukovych from office.

Furthermore, the bill wasn’t even supported by three-quarters of Rada members as required by Article 111 – it was supported by 328 members, when it required 338 (since the Rada has 450 members).

According to Article 94 of the constitution, laws passed by the Rada require the signature of the President to come into force, so no law passed by the Rada since 22 February has been properly enacted.


The Ukrainian regime is illegitimate – but the EU backs it to the hilt



posted on Oct, 29 2014 @ 08:29 AM
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a reply to: maghun

The bill was passed by the required numbers.

Secondly when you demand something be shorter, especially a complicated topic involving the Ukraine constitution, you miss important details.

The Ukraine government was lawful and valid when Yanukovych was impeached /Fled.

nothing can change that fact.



posted on Oct, 29 2014 @ 08:50 AM
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a reply to: Xcathdra

New western-type "democracy":


On 22 February, there was no prime minister – Mykola Azarov had resigned as prime minister on 28 January 2014 (when efforts were being made by Yanukovych to bring the opposition into government) and he hadn’t been replaced. Instead, the speaker of the Rada, Olexander Turchynov (a close ally of opposition leader and former prime minister Yulia Tymoshenko) was appointed as Acting President on 23 February. He had become speaker the day before, upon the resignation of Volodymyr Rybak, an ally of Yanukovych, who resigned that morning because of ill health. The BBC reported that, according to Yanukovych, Rybak “was forced to resign because he had been physically beaten


Even BBC admits the number which was not enough in this "democratic" coup:


The vote to "remove Viktor Yanukovych from the post of president of Ukraine" was passed by 328 MPs.


Ukrainian MPs vote to oust President Yanukovych

This was the reason to send "green men" to Crimea to defend them against nazis.


Is concerned about the rising nationalistic sentiment in Ukraine, expressed in support for the Svoboda Party, which, as a result, is one of the two new parties to enter the Verkhovna Rada; recalls that racist, anti-Semitic and xenophobic views go against the EU’s fundamental values and principles and therefore appeals to pro-democratic parties in the Verkhovna Rada not to associate with, endorse or form coalitions with this party;


European Parliament resolution of 13 December 2012 on the situation in Ukraine

Xcthadra, wake up, the propaganda war is lost, and the real war lost too, Novorossia is standing against nato-nazis for months. Many western "advisers" (mercenaries) are lost too...



posted on Oct, 29 2014 @ 09:01 AM
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a reply to: maghun

Actually no that's not why Putin invaded Ukraine.

Putin Says Russia Helped Yanukovych to Escape Ukraine


Ousted Ukrainian leader Viktor Yanukovych received Russian aid to escape the country in February, President Vladimir Putin said.

Russia helped to evacuate Yanukovych to Crimea, when the Black Sea peninsula was still part of Ukraine, and then agreed to assist him across the border into Russia, Putin told the annual Valdai Club meeting in Sochi today.

“I won’t conceal it that we helped him move to Crimea,” he said. “At that moment, Crimea was part of Ukraine. As the events in Kiev were developing very quickly and violently, it made no sense for him to return to Kiev.”


Putin admits Crimea was a part of Ukraine.

Then says -

Putin’s comments mark the first time Russia has said it helped Yanukovych to flee into exile after months of anti-government protests in Kiev. Putin admitted in April that the soldiers who took control of Crimea before his annexation of the Black Sea territory were Russian. He’d previously denied that Russia’s military was involved.

The takeover of Crimea, which prompted the U.S. and its allies to impose sanctions, complied with United Nations norms, Putin said. The transfer of Crimea from Russia to Ukraine under the Soviet Union had been illegal, he said.


He did not invade because of Ethnic Russians.
He did not invade to protect against "Nazis"

He invaded because he unilaterally decided to collapse of the USSR was illegal. He invaded because he said the transfer of Crimea to Ukraine was illegal.

The transfer was not only lawful to Ukraine, Russia accepted that as fact when they signed the Final Act of the Conference on Security and Cooperation in Europe (CSCE).

PDF - Final Act of the Conference on Security and Cooperation in Europe


The Final Act obligates its signatories to "refrain…from the threat or use of force" against each other. According to the act, participating states "regard as inviolable one another's frontiers" and "will refrain now and in the future from assaulting those frontiers." They "will respect the territorial integrity of each of the participating states" and "will likewise refrain from making each other's territory the object of military occupation."

In addition, the participating states agree to "refrain from any intervention, direct or indirect, in the internal or external affairs" of another participating state.


They also signed the Budapest Memorandum. That required -

Ukraine agreed to transfer all of its nuclear arms to Russia.

In exchange, Russia, the US and the UK reaffirmed "their obligation to refrain from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Ukraine." They also agreed "to seek immediate United Nations Security Council action to provide assistance to Ukraine….if Ukraine should become a victim of an act of aggression or an object of a threat of aggression in which nuclear weapons are used."


Russia violated 2 treaties in addition to international law and the UN charter.



posted on Oct, 29 2014 @ 09:09 AM
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a reply to: maghun




Ukrainian MPs vote to oust President Yanukovych

This was the reason to send "green men" to Crimea to defend them against nazis.


Here how about you understand some of the real reasons Yanukovych was removed from office...

www.newrepublic.com...



posted on Oct, 29 2014 @ 09:11 AM
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a reply to: Xcathdra


At that moment, Crimea was part of Ukraine."

In February. Now it is Russia.


Ironically, on 6 March 2014, President Obama signed an Executive Order that “authorizes sanctions on individuals and entities responsible for activities undermining democratic processes or institutions in Ukraine”. By rights, the list of individuals should have included himself, his Secretary of State, John Kerry, and, of course, his Assistant Secretary of State for European and Eurasian Affairs, Victoria (F**k the EU) Nuland.



Result of democratic cookies at the lawful "demonstrations":




posted on Oct, 29 2014 @ 09:14 AM
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originally posted by: maghun
In February. Now it is Russia.



At least you admitted it was part of Ukraine.

Yes its currently occupied by Russia but the question remains for how long.
edit on 29-10-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 29 2014 @ 09:24 AM
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a reply to: tsurfer2000h


Hypocrisy. What about Yats, Porky Poro, Avakov, Akhmetov or Kolomoisky?



posted on Oct, 29 2014 @ 09:26 AM
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a reply to: Xcathdra



Yes its currently occupied by Russia but the question remains for how long.


I wish such an occupation for Iraq, Syria, Libya, Afghanistan.

How long? Forever.



posted on Oct, 29 2014 @ 11:06 AM
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a reply to: maghun




Hypocrisy. What about Yats, Porky Poro, Avakov, Akhmetov or Kolomoisky?



You obviously don't understand the context that was used in but that's okay...so what is your point?



posted on Oct, 29 2014 @ 11:08 AM
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a reply to: maghun




I wish such an occupation for Iraq, Syria, Libya, Afghanistan.

How long? Forever.


Of course the fall back...ME.

Why is it you and a couple other's have to interject the ME into a UKraine thread as if it has any relevance whatsoever?



posted on Oct, 29 2014 @ 12:44 PM
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a reply to: tsurfer2000h


how about you understand some of the real reasons


Thanks for telling me how I understand anything...

You have proved many times your high qualification in geopolitics.


Why is it you and a couple other's have to interject the ME into a UKraine thread as if it has any relevance whatsoever?


Think about it.



posted on Oct, 29 2014 @ 03:24 PM
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a reply to: maghun




Thanks for telling me how I understand anything...


Well you keep blaming the US for the downfall of Yanukovych, yet don't seem to understand that he was being impeached for corruption which is why I posted the link.



You have proved many times your high qualification in geopolitics.


You don't have to have a certain qualification to understand what one reads, and what one learns.



Think about it.


I did...

Is it because you have nothing else that relates to Ukraine, so if you throw out some ME you hope others don't notice?




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