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Putin Says Russia Helped Yanukovych to Escape Ukraine (Ukraine borders illegal - Crimea)

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posted on Oct, 27 2014 @ 09:06 AM
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a reply to: maghun

In any post where you refer ANY group as "Junta Nazis", I find it hard not to immediately ignore the rest of your post. If you want argue for the Russian perspective, that's fine. But do it in an intelligent, thoughtful way. Slinging around buzz words and veiled insults will only gain you derision around here.




posted on Oct, 27 2014 @ 09:14 AM
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a reply to: Adaluncatif

I have one simple question for you. Has the United States threatened the territorial integrity of Russia since the end of the cold war? Has the United States used thinly veiled threats at nuclear annihilation if they don't get their way? Has the U.S. forcefully annexed any territory in recent history (Don't give me the "THEY'RE ANNEXING REGIMES" line, it's old and tired)?

When it comes to pointing out aggressors, Russia seems to fit the bill. Let's put it this way. What Russia is doing would be like the United States invading southwestern Canada, claiming the PM there was appointed illegally and saying they are only looking to protect English speakers in southwest Canada. After all, they want to be part of the United States anyway!

See how silly that logic sounds when applied to another nation? Yet somehow when Russia does it, it's defended and even applauded, citing that they're fighting "Western Oppression". I mean, yeah, sometimes you gotta vote for the underdog, but when the underdog is a snarling, angry dog that will bite anyone who looks at it wrong, you kinda feel less bad for the dog.



posted on Oct, 27 2014 @ 03:33 PM
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a reply to: ScientificRailgun

You decide. Tens of thousands are murdered in Ukraine in 2014 till now.

Hero of ukraine: Roman Shukhevych
The OUN actively cooperated with Nazi Germany.

Today the son of Roman Shukhevich, Yurij is sitting in the ukrainian parliament among other nazi "politicians".

Junta is the result of an armed coup. Remember the Maidan Massacre? Who killed the first hundred?

Special Report: Flaws found in Ukraine's probe of Maidan massacre



posted on Oct, 27 2014 @ 03:38 PM
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a reply to: maghun

The government in Kiev was elected in 2012 and Russia recognized the election as legitimate and lawful.
The parliament impeached Yanukovych lawfully.
The Presidential election was held lawfully.
The latest Parliament vote was held lawfully.

The Russian government has a larger number of Neo Nazi Socialists in its Duma than Ukraine had in its Parliament. Since most parties linked to Yanukovych lost their seats, including the socialist party, your attempt to once again link them with NEO Nazi groups fails - spectacularly.

maybe you should do research before posting a lie in the forums.
edit on 27-10-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 27 2014 @ 03:50 PM
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a reply to: maghun

One batallion does not a government make. The batallion has even denied that it has ties to Neo-Nazi ideals, though that is still under debate. Unless you're suggesting that this one batallion (roughly 300 people, at last count) controls Kiev, this gives no evidence to your statements that the Ukrainian Government is a "Nazi Junta".

That would be like if Mexico invades Texas, and the KKK formed a militia to help defend them. Does that make the U.S. a "Nazi Junta" as well? Hell, there are several neo-nazi groups that exist in the U.S. Would you call the U.S. a Nazi government on this fact alone?

Oh, there are also several active nao-nazi groups in Russia as well. Nazi's everywhere! Everyone's a nazi now. Welcome to the Fourth Reich!



posted on Oct, 27 2014 @ 03:55 PM
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a reply to: ScientificRailgun

The use of the term Nazi Junta has to be used because that is the lie Putin sold to the Russian people. why do you think he sent forces into Ukraine when Kiev was close to taking out the rebels? Do you think Putin could tell the Russian people that the "Nazi's" had won?


This is the disaster I keep trying to get people to understand. Putin has told so many lies to his own people about Ukraine that it is now all or nothing with him. Do we really see Putin telling the Russian people he lied about Ukraine, about the Nazi claims, about his own forces taking part?

I think Putin would rather wage a nuclear World War 3 than admit he was wrong and that he lied to the people.

Prior to this last Parliament election in Ukraine, Russia had more "Socialists - Nazi's" in its government than what Ukraine did. Something pro Russians / Russians don't like to talk about.
edit on 27-10-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 27 2014 @ 04:05 PM
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a reply to: Xcathdra

Nazis calling other people nazis to drum up support for a war. I love it, it's like a Tom Clancy thriller, only it's real.



posted on Oct, 27 2014 @ 04:19 PM
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Apparently the Russian government is ok with Nazis -

Russia to recognize Ukraine election results: Lavrov


MOSCOW (Reuters) - Russia will recognize the results of Ukraine's parliamentary election, Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov was quoted as saying on Monday by RIA news agency.

"Taking everything into account, this election took place, though not on all of Ukraine's territory," Lavrov was quoted as saying.

"I think we will recognize this election because it is very important for us that Ukraine finally will have authorities which do not fight one another, do not drag Ukraine to the West or to the East, but which will deal with the real problems facing the country."

(Reporting by Gabriela Baczynska and Alexander Winning, editing by Elizabeth Piper)



Which effectively removes the Nazi argument people are desperately trying to make... We have pointed out the parallels between Nazi Germany and actions / phrases putin uses. That side of the fence just does not get it.

The other thing I would point out is the phrases LAvrov used when referencing the vote...

though not on all of Ukraine's territory


That sounds like Russia just admitted the East and South and Crimea are still sovereign Ukraine territory.
edit on 27-10-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 27 2014 @ 04:25 PM
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a reply to: VirusGuard




Buring people alive in the east of the Ukraine is legal, mass executions of civilians is legal, bombing cities using cluster bombs is all legal if you happen to be a freinds of Isreal or the USA.


So do you have any evidence that proves Ukraine killed and put people in mass graves, because we have evidence that the separatists do like to use mass graves.



And the US has no say in what Ukraine does as they are a sovereign nation, something Putin doesn't seem to understand.



posted on Oct, 27 2014 @ 04:52 PM
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a reply to: maghun




Hero of ukraine: Roman Shukhevych
The OUN actively cooperated with Nazi Germany.


Really...


The Ukrainian Insurgent Army (Ukrainian: Українська Повстанська Армія, УПА, Ukrayins’ka Povstans’ka Armiya, UPA) was a Ukrainian nationalist paramilitary and later partisan army, the military wing of the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists—Bandera faction (the OUN-B), originally formed in Volyn in the spring and summer of 1943. that engaged in a series of guerrilla conflicts during World War II against Nazi Germany, the Soviet Union, Czechoslovakia, and both Underground and Communist Poland. Its official date of creation is 14 October 1942,[1] day of Intercession of the Theotokos feast. The same name (Ukrainian Insurgent Army) has Ukrainian People's Revolutionary Army at the period from December 1941 till July 1943.[2]


en.wikipedia.org...

Do you ever do research or do you just throw against the wall and post what sticks?



Today the son of Roman Shukhevich, Yurij is sitting in the ukrainian parliament among other nazi "politicians".


I believe you are wrong...because first there have to actually be Nazi's in the parliament.



Junta is the result of an armed coup. Remember the Maidan Massacre? Who killed the first hundred?



Well who was the president at the time...Yanukovych.

And please for god's sake or whoever you pray to...learn the definition of what a junta really is, as you seem to think it's something it isn't.



posted on Oct, 27 2014 @ 05:15 PM
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a reply to: maghun

But, but, but...

Americans don`t like Nazies !

Oh wait...

In Cold War, U.S. Spy Agencies Used 1,000 Nazis



WASHINGTON — In the decades after World War II, the C.I.A. and other United States agencies employed at least a thousand Nazis as Cold War spies and informants and, as recently as the 1990s, concealed the government’s ties to some still living in America, newly disclosed records and interviews show.

Source

How Bush's grandfather helped Hitler's rise to power



George Bush's grandfather, the late US senator Prescott Bush, was a director and shareholder of companies that profited from their involvement with the financial backers of Nazi Germany. The Guardian has obtained confirmation from newly discovered files in the US National Archives that a firm of which Prescott Bush was a director was involved with the financial architects of Nazism.

Source

...never mind !



posted on Oct, 27 2014 @ 06:08 PM
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a reply to: BornAgainAlien

and they were used against the Communists in the countries the USSR occupied. Dealing with Nazis after the war is bad enough.. Using them as spies is a lot different than being allied with Nazi Germany, as the USSR was.

how many people did the USSR help Nazi Germany murder in Poland? East Europe? The Baltics?

What does any of it have to do with the fact you guys keep trying to claim the Ukraine government is a NAZI junta while offering nothing but obfuscation to support the lie?

What about the Nazis in the Russian government?
edit on 27-10-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 27 2014 @ 06:34 PM
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a reply to: BornAgainAlien

Handpicked governemnt in Ukraine huh? Soros will say anything to get more money from backers.

ALso they had elections that were internationally recognized except by russia.

The people who kicked out the former russian stooge/president did it according to their constitution.

According to th e dictionary the government there was not a junta.

I see all the normal dis info agents are here. dont see them posting hardly anywhere but anti us threads so its a dead give away. NOTICE unless i DIRECTLY SAY YOUR USERNAME I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT YOU. You are not the center of the universe.



posted on Oct, 27 2014 @ 07:13 PM
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a reply to: yuppa

When a person has interest in World politics does that make him a dis info agent or just someone with a specific interest ?

And I apologize, I still occasionally are oblivious to an US who has become a great World force all of a sudden...

It will take some time for me to adjust to the new US World politics, "not easy" after what has been going on for so long to look at them now as being the great protector of democracies :

So hard to forget



posted on Oct, 27 2014 @ 08:46 PM
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originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
a reply to: Adaluncatif

I have one simple question for you. Has the United States threatened the territorial integrity of Russia since the end of the cold war? Has the United States used thinly veiled threats at nuclear annihilation if they don't get their way? Has the U.S. forcefully annexed any territory in recent history (Don't give me the "THEY'RE ANNEXING REGIMES" line, it's old and tired)?

When it comes to pointing out aggressors, Russia seems to fit the bill.


There's also the fact that Russia has built multiple new strategic nuclear weapon systems since the end of the Cold War, whereas the USA dismantled its most powerful such system, the MX missile.

It's Russia's backwards propaganda that calls the US missile interceptor system dangerous and defends both the new Topol nuclear missiles and hypersonic nuclear re-entry vehicles.


edit on 27-10-2014 by mbkennel because: (no reason given)

edit on 27-10-2014 by mbkennel because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 28 2014 @ 02:32 AM
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a reply to: BornAgainAlien




And I apologize, I still occasionally are oblivious to an US who has become a great World force all of a sudden...


World force all of the sudden...where have you been under a rock?

You do understand that if it wasn't for the US helping get RUssia's banking system the help they needed they would be in a worst position than they are now.

Oh but let's look past that and call the US the big bad boogey country that only does bad in the world.



posted on Oct, 28 2014 @ 10:23 AM
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a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Believe me, he is in RADA now, only the "western" sources silent about it:



I believe you are wrong...


nazi thug, son of a serial killer

And after accepting the junta in Kiev the Russians will accept the referendum in Donetsk and Luhansk.


Quod licet Iovi, non licet bovi is a Latin phrase, literally "What is permissible for Jove is not permissible for an ox


...but the bear is not asking permission any more...

Learn history: Volyn Massacre



posted on Oct, 28 2014 @ 02:12 PM
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a reply to: yuppa



The people who kicked out the former russian stooge/president did it according to their constitution.



The vote to remove Yanukovych doesn’t seem to have followed constitutional procedures. Under Articles 108-112 of Ukraine’s constitution (was here and removed forever), there are four ways a sitting president may leave office between elections: resignation, incapacitation, death, and impeachment. None of the first three happened—early rumors to the contrary, Yanukovych has vehemently denied that he resigned—so that leaves the fourth, impeachment. According to Article 111, impeachment must follow a specific set of procedures: Parliament must vote to impeach and then convene a committee to investigate. That committee must investigate and report back to parliament, which must then vote to bring charges. A final vote to convict may only come after receipt of a judgment from the Constitutional Court that “the acts, of which the President of Ukraine is accused, contain elements of treason or other crime.


Please show me the decision of the ukrainian Constitutional Court and I will believe you...




posted on Oct, 28 2014 @ 09:30 PM
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a reply to: maghun

If you dug a bit further you would have noticed the agreement reverted the Ukraine Constitution back to 2010 (I believe). That Constitution contained the expedited process for impeachment.


Secondly according to Putin Yanukovych fled, which means he abandoned his position. The Ukraine constitution also has language dealing with that.



posted on Oct, 29 2014 @ 02:45 AM
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a reply to: Xcathdra


back to 2010 (I believe)


You about the agreement which "lived" about an hour?

1. Within 48 hours of the signing of this agreement, a special law will be adopted, signed and promulgated, which will restore the Constitution of 2004 including amendments passed until now. Signatories declare their intention to create a coalition and form a national unity government within 10 days thereafter.

2. Constitutional reform, balancing the powers of the President, the government and parliament, will start immediately and be completed in September 2014.

3. Presidential elections will be held as soon as the new Constitution is adopted but no later than December 2014. New electoral laws will be passed and a new Central Election Commission will be formed on the basis of proportionality and in accordance with the OSCE & Venice commission rules.

4. Investigation into recent acts of violence will be conducted under joint monitoring from the authorities, the opposition and the Council of Europe.

5. The authorities will not impose a state of emergency. The authorities and the opposition will refrain from the use of violence. The Parliament will adopt the 3rd amnesty, covering the same range of illegal actions as the 17th February 2014 law.

Both parties will undertake serious efforts for the normalisation of life in the cities and villages by withdrawing from administrative and public buildings and unblocking streets, city parks and squares.

Illegal weapons should be handed over to the Ministry of Interior bodies within 24 hours of the special law, referred to in point 1 hereof, coming into force. After the aforementioned period, all cases of illegal carrying and storage of weapons will fall under the law of Ukraine. The forces of authorities and of the opposition will step back from confrontational posture. The Government will use law enforcement forces exclusively for the physical protection of public buildings.

6. The Foreign Ministers of France, Germany, Poland and the Special Representative of the President of the Russian Federation call for an immediate end to all violence and confrontation.


Agreement on the Settlement of Crisis in Ukraine - full text

Which point has been accomplished?


Putin called the developments on 22 February an “anti-constitutional coup d’état and armed seizure of power”. The West sees the government in Kyiv as legitimate, although a recent push by the new authorities that the EU-Ukraine Association Agreement (AA) should be signed on the occasion of the 20-21 March EU summit was met with caution.


Let’s return to the 21 February agreement, Russia tells EU



The Ukraine constitution also has language dealing with that.


Please show me! You can't, not only because the junta removed the english version (the ukrainian version replaced to static.rada.gov.ua), but it is not "dealing with it" on any language.


there are four ways a sitting president may leave office between elections: resignation, incapacitation, death, and impeachment


Deal with that.



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