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Putin Says Russia Helped Yanukovych to Escape Ukraine (Ukraine borders illegal - Crimea)

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posted on Oct, 25 2014 @ 06:25 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 




posted on Oct, 25 2014 @ 06:42 PM
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a reply to: BornAgainAlien




Soros Admits Responsibility for Coup and Mass Murder in Ukraine


And infowars.com is what your using for a source...Really.



Source


Russia Today...enough said.





John Kerry voices strong US support for Ukraine during Kiev visit – video


So he says the US is giving them support to help Ukraine, so what's your point?



Source


Zero hedge...another great bastion of truth when it comes to Ukraine.

Now do you have something a bit more credible?



posted on Oct, 25 2014 @ 06:47 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Oct, 25 2014 @ 06:48 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Oct, 25 2014 @ 06:53 PM
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originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: Dabrazzo

Except the Ukraine government was not overthrown.

The removal of Yanukovych was done per the Ukraine Constitution.
The Parliament that impeached him was elected in 2012 and that election was accepted by Russia as legitimate.

Yanukovych said he did not flee where as Putin has claimed, twice now, that Yanukovych fled.

Why is that distinction important?
Because if he fled, he automatically abandoned his office under Ukraine's constitution.


Also remember that nearly all of the MP's of Yanukovych's party---mostly in fact representing Eastern Ukraine and more Russian oriented---also voted for impeachment and ouster. He was just plain a corrupt loser and lost confidence.

It's also clear that he's effectively a puppet of a foreign country.

There are legitimate decisions and a West/East split in Ukraine that need to be resolved with the rights and interests of Easterners upheld. But Putin can go Cheney himself.

There's some evidence, and I strongly suspect it's true, that Russian snipers were shooting at & murdering both sides during the Kiev demonstrations.
edit on 25-10-2014 by mbkennel because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 25 2014 @ 07:00 PM
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a reply to: BornAgainAlien

Lol thank you for confirming my points.

1st your

Soros link.
It is a link to Alex Jones website and if you actually took the time to read the article, including the source links, you would see the accusation against Soros is nowhere in the CNN interview. There is absolutely nothing from Soros stating he is responsible for the Coup. What it is is a person giving Alex Jones his opinion as he sees it. Wouldn't you know he offers NO FACTS to support his claim.

Here is the CNN transcript for you to read -

CNN Interview Transcript


* - Neuland Phone Call - The issue was addressed as was placed in context on who they wanted to win. Just as Russia wanted someone else to win. Discussing who they would like to see take over is not the same as a coup and you are not that stupid to confuse the 2. Secondly The World Socialist Website has been shown before to leave out info or spin it in a matter they want.

You should listen and understand it.
Phone Call


* - MH17 call. Debunking that issue using RT is not acceptable.
* - Biden's son - Hard to drill in E. Ukraine when Russian forces are present. Of course this is the same area that Putin wants and for the same reason - Oil. Just like he did when he took Crimea, noting the off shore resources that now fell within Russian territorial waters. Secondly how many oil companies has Putin removed the CEO's off, thrown them in jail and then seized the company.

* - CIA Director visit to Ukraine -
You once again edited the paragraph to try and portray it as something its not. this is the p[art you left out in the paragraph you quoted -

But in today’s digital and virtual battlefield, the game can be over before the first shot gets fired. And if Moscow’s mastery over the digital domain can be countered, Putin might think twice about risking the expensive hardware that he has invested billions in upgrading since the Georgian war.


Not to mention the article consistently states they are not sure why he was here and offers up several ideas, none of which can be stated as fact. Once again you misrepresent an article in an effort to support your position.

* - John Kerry Comments -

US secretary of state John Kerry speaks during a news conference at the US embassy in Kiev on Tuesday. Kerry speaks vividly about his visit to Independence Square and says that no act of force can undermine Ukraine's desire for freedom. Both President Obama and Kerry have called on Russia to wait for Ukrainian elections in 90 days and to let Ukrainians ratify their new government


not sure what your issue is here.

* - Cookies - See Agent_USA_Supporter failed thread on this non issue here -
www.abovetopsecret.com...

* - Ukrainian President 2006 wikileaks -
Is based on this video -scgnews.com...
an has been posted and debunked several times on this site. Should we see how far Yanukovych was in the pockets of Vlad?


* - Wikileaks source from 2008 -
had you read the entire report you would note that Russia's position is based on the non existent agreement about NATO and westward expansion. Ukraine is a sovereign nation and can decide who it does business with and who it aligns with. That decision is not up to russia nor NATO, and from he NATO perspective was reaffirmed in 2008 when Ukraine, and the very hard insistence / threats from Russia, declined to join.

What happened when things in Ukraine did not go in the direction Putin demanded? Putin invaded Ukraine.


Next time you should do more in depth research to support your claim. Nothing you have posted supports your agenda not to mention the items you posted have been discussed and debunked before.

The search function on this site is your friend. As are the source links that you failed to look at in your own sources.

edit on 25-10-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

edit on 25-10-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 25 2014 @ 08:35 PM
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a reply to: Xcathdra

You do know people can just look into the CNN transcript, watch the wikileaks cables via -scgnews.com, listen to the phone call, etc. ?

So what`s your point ?

I just don`t give a damn about my credibility anymore...?



posted on Oct, 25 2014 @ 10:14 PM
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a reply to: BornAgainAlien

Being my response actually sourced to the CNN transcript where Soros never stated what he is being accused of saying I am not really sure why you even mentioned it.

My response sourced the phone call where a discussion occurred about Ukraine which shows no evidence of any coup.

Nothing you stated / sourced supports what you are claiming. How you cannot see that is confusing. Take the Soros issue. You posted it as if it were fact that Soros stated / was involved in the manner described by the interview. In reality he never stated what he is being accused of. What occurred were people listening to what he stated and added their own BS to it and tried to pass it off as fact.

You are an intelligent person yet you are so gung ho on your agenda that you ignore the truth.

Here is the problem with how you operate -
You read / watched the Alex Jones interview. That source has a link back to the CNN transcript.

* - You either read the CNN transcript and ignored the facts it contained because the Alex Jones interview painted Soros / the west in a bad light...

OR

* - You never bothered to read the transcript to see if what was claimed actually occurred, again going back to you only seeking a singular viewpoint.

In either case you willingly chose to ignore a source / facts solely because they would conflict with what you want to portray as the truth.

You want to sway my opinion to your side - Start using valid sources and post them with your responses or comments. Stop editing article quotes by leaving lines / paragraphs out that change the meaning of whats being said. Stop making claims only to refuse to discuss them.. Stop trying to drag other issues into the debate that have nothing to do with it. You seem to ignore the fact that there are a lot of people in the west, me included, who does not agree with what the US does / west operates.

above all -
STOP with the personal attacks on anyone who does not share your point of view. There is a difference between debating the topic from 2 opposing viewpoints and you launching personal attacks on a person who does not subscribe to your point of view.

You have a very bad habit of doing that and all it accomplishes is derailing the thread. I am not sure if that's what your intent is, to drag the thread off topic, or what but you seem like an intelligent person so im willing to give you the benefit of the doubt that its not your intent.

if you can try to keep the above in mind I am sure we can have some stellar debates where we both can learn something. If its not then I am not sure what the purpose is in trying to engage you in debate.

Somedays you get the bear and somedays the bear gets you - Its how it goes.

edit on 25-10-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 25 2014 @ 10:40 PM
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a reply to: Xcathdra

Basically spot on.



posted on Oct, 25 2014 @ 10:59 PM
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a reply to: Xcathdra

You clearly haven`t been reading the whole CNN transcript :



ZAKARIA: George Soros has made one of world's great fortunes betting on global trends, and he is deeply troubled by events and political trends in Ukraine, specifically, but Europe more broadly. He's just back from the region and he joins me to talk about what he saw, what he thinks and where he's putting his money.

George Soros, pleasure to have you on.

GEORGE SOROS, AUTHOR, "THE TRAGEDY OF THE EUROPEAN UNION": Same here.

ZAKARIA: First on Ukraine, one of the things that many people recognized about you was that you during the revolutions of 1989 funded a lot of dissident activities, civil society groups in eastern Europe and Poland, the Czech Republic. Are you doing similar things in Ukraine?

SOROS: Well, I set up a foundation in Ukraine before Ukraine became independent of Russia. And the foundation has been functioning ever since and played an important part in events now.


And look at the SCGnews article there`s a link to the wikileaks cable regarding Poroshenko.

What are you trying to do ?

Counting on people not opening links and then thinking you can let people think the information isn`t there ?

I`m totally lost about what you are doing, and again...you do realize when people are actual looking into it you lose all creditability with them when they see it`s actual there when you claim to have read it and say it`s not.
edit on 25-10-2014 by BornAgainAlien because: (no reason given)

edit on 25-10-2014 by BornAgainAlien because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 26 2014 @ 12:54 AM
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a reply to: BornAgainAlien

This is becoming a waste of time... You need to READ AND UNDERSTAND the articles you are using. You just, once again, posted something that does NOT support the accusation that Soros is involved in a coup / etc. That implication came from some guy Alex Jones interviewed on his program.

Its not hard to understand if you actually read and comprehend the sources you use. No where in the CNN transcript does it state Soros is behind / supported / funded a coup in Ukraine.



originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
I`m totally lost about what you are doing,.

This sums up your entire position thus far with Ukraine and Russia. You aren't lost, just willingly choosing ignorance over facts. And once again instead of addressing my post you launch personal attacks.
edit on 26-10-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 26 2014 @ 01:13 AM
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a reply to: BornAgainAlien

Seriously reading is pointless if you can not understand.


SOROS: Well, I set up a foundation in Ukraine before Ukraine became independent of Russia. And the foundation has been functioning ever since. And it played a - an important part in events now.


What does his foundation do? It promotes independent media, freedom, and education.


SOROS: No. Putin will try to destabilize Ukraine. But the Ukrainians, the large majority of Ukrainians, are determined to be independent of - of Russia. It won't be easy, because Putin has staked his regime on destabilizing Ukraine, because it's a threat to Ru - to his regime in Russia. If you have freedom, a free media and so on, and a flourishing economy, that would make his regime unsustainable.


So what he is saying is that by educating Ukrainians they chose FREEDOM over Putin's puppets.

It's not even a little bit difficult to see what Soros is saying.



posted on Oct, 26 2014 @ 02:20 AM
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a reply to: OccamsRazor04



What does his foundation do? It promotes independent media, freedom, and education.


HAHAHA !



posted on Oct, 26 2014 @ 02:34 AM
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originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
a reply to: OccamsRazor04



What does his foundation do? It promotes independent media, freedom, and education.


HAHAHA !

Whether you agree or not, that is what Soros is referring to. Your belief Soros is doing something else has no bearing on what Soros himself is saying. You are simply trying your hardest to twist things.



posted on Oct, 26 2014 @ 05:50 AM
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a reply to: BornAgainAlien




And look at the SCGnews article there`s a link to the wikileaks cable regarding Poroshenko.


So now other than the first line in that cable where exactly does it prove Poroshenko was in the pocket of the US?

You do understand what the word insider means, because it seems you don't? Poroshenko wasn't working for the US nor was he placed in the government by the US, but please keep trying to prove a point that isn't there.


So in your mind every person in other governments that discuss problems with the US are working for them, because that is what your trying to say here is it not?



posted on Oct, 26 2014 @ 05:55 AM
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a reply to: BornAgainAlien




HAHAHA !


I take it you can't refute anything discussed which is why you replied the way you did...correct?

Here is what you did...

Took what was said out of context that didn't come close to backing up your claim then when called out all you can do is say HAHAHA...that's just beautiful because now you seem to be scraping the bottom of the barrel here.



posted on Oct, 27 2014 @ 05:40 AM
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Why Putin helped Yanukovych to escape?

Because the US-backed junta nazis wanted to kill him in February. If it had happened then it would be called a successful "democratic impeachment". It failed, and the "regime" is illegal now in Ukraine according to ukrainian constitution...

And do not forget that Yanukovych was only a criminal, typical ukrainian oligarch, same as Poroshenko, not pro-russian but "pro-money".



posted on Oct, 27 2014 @ 05:55 AM
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"As stated time and again, Putin has lost all touch on reality.. "

Nope that would be the OP who seems to be working 24-7 to bring us this news.

When you own the banks you don't need to care who writes the rules and this is why anything Russia does can be deems illegal and nothing the USA does is ever illegal.

Buring people alive in the east of the Ukraine is legal, mass executions of civilians is legal, bombing cities using cluster bombs is all legal if you happen to be a freinds of Isreal or the USA.

Funny how we now find that oil prices can be supressed just like gold prices to hurt Russia but don't think much of the price drop will be past on to you and remember that as oil prices are sent to the moon when OPEC breaks ranks



posted on Oct, 27 2014 @ 06:06 AM
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a reply to: Xcathdra

"STOP with the personal attacks on anyone who does not share your point of view."

"You need to READ AND UNDERSTAND the articles you are using"

Why is he thick or something ?

Seems to me that you should take your own advise and at least start to watch a bit of Russia today so you know what you are talking about instead of just repeating state propaganda parrot fashion.



posted on Oct, 27 2014 @ 06:58 AM
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It is you who has lost all touch with reality, not Putin. Putin is not a thug or a communist or somebody who wants to restore the Soviet Union. You believe this because you have been brainwashed by propaganda. Russia is doing what any country would do in their position. If someone has plans to destroy you, you resist. Since the collapse of the Soviet Union all evidence points to the fact that the United States wants to control the entire world. The US government does not care about freedom or democracy or human rights. It cares about expanding corporate control over resources and people. The USA is worse than NAZI Germany. Hitler never made the gains and achieved the military and economic power the US now has over most of the world. He also didn't kill as many people. If you look at the facts you would understand what is going on and what lies in the future. Instead you want to believe that Russia is bad and the USA are the good guys because it makes you feel better. The US overthrew a democratically elected government in Ukraine. Understand that. The US is now openly overthrowing democracies; they don't care any more about how they look. They will do whatever must be done for world domination. Yanukovich was from Donetsk. The reason this pro Russian President was legitimately elected in a democratic election is because there are a lot of Russian speakers in east Ukraine, and they support Russia. In a democracy the person with the most votes wins. Crimea is 80% Russian. They were semiautonomous under Ukraine. Once the illegal US backed coup happened in Ukraine, Crimea voted to join Russia, in full accordance with international law. The whole world knows that this was legal including the UN. If it was illegal the UN would have tried to impose sanctions on Russia. That never happened. The only people imposing sanctions on Russia are the US and their colonies in Europe. A lot of those colonies are doing it under duress. What should have happened after the coup in Kiev was sanctions imposed on the United States, but the rest of the world treats the US the same way Neville Chamberlain treated NAZI Germany. People don't matter to corporate and monied interests. It it is those entities that control US foreign policy. Since the nuclear states of Russia and China have the resources that the USA wants, there will eventually be a nuclear war with hundreds of millions, if not billions, of dead people. It is not a hard equation to solve. It is too late to avoid this. It is a certainty. History will show who the aggressor really was.



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