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Jesus vs. Yahweh - The Future of Mankind Hangs in the Balance

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posted on Oct, 23 2014 @ 09:11 PM
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Jesus said:

John 5:37 And the Father who sent me has himself testified on my behalf. You have never heard his voice or seen his form, 38 and you do not have his word abiding in you, because you do not believe him whom he has sent.

Moses Said:

Exodus 33: 11 Yahweh would speak to Moses personally, as a man speaks to his friend. Then Moses would come back to the camp, but his assistant, Joshua, son of Nun, stayed inside the tent.

---We can safely assume that Yahweh is NOT the Father spoken of by Jesus.

Yahweh Said:

Leviticus 21: " 17 "Say to Aaron, 'None of your seed throughout their generations who has a blemish, may approach to offer the bread of his God. 18 For whatever man he is that has a blemish, he shall not draw near: a blind man, or a lame, or he who has a flat nose, or any deformity, 19 or a man who has an injured foot, or an injured hand, 20 or hunchbacked, or a dwarf, or one who has a defect in his eye, or an itching disease, or scabs, or who has damaged testicles; 21 no man of the seed of Aaron the priest who has a blemish, shall come near to offer the offerings of Yahweh made by fire. Since he has a blemish, he shall not come near to offer the bread of his God. 22 He shall eat the bread of his God, both of the most holy, and of the holy. 23 He shall not come near to the veil, nor come near to the altar, because he has a blemish; that he may not profane my sanctuaries, for I am Yahweh who sanctifies them.'" 24 So Moses spoke to Aaron, and to his sons, and to all the children of Israel. "

---Yahweh refuses the lame, sick, blind, flat nosed, or deformed to enter his presence in the sanctuary.

Jesus Said:

12 Then Jesus entered the temple[c] and drove out all who were selling and buying in the temple, and he overturned the tables of the money changers and the seats of those who sold doves. 13 He said to them, “It is written,

‘My house shall be called a house of prayer’;
but you are making it a den of robbers.”

14 The blind and the lame came to him in the temple, and he cured them. 15 But when the chief priests and the scribes saw the amazing things that he did, and heard the children crying out in the temple, “Hosanna to the Son of David,” they became angry 16 and said to him, “Do you hear what these are saying?” Jesus said to them, “Yes; have you never read,

‘Out of the mouths of infants and nursing babies
you have prepared praise for yourself’?”

---After evicting the moneychangers and merchants, Jesus heals the bind and lame in the sanctuary. What are we to make of this compared to Yahweh?

So far, Yahweh is not the Father and he is not the same in character as the Son of God pictured here. What can we now assume Jesus meant by this verse:

John 8:44

You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

Jesus words are in Greek and Aramaic. The native language of YHVH is Hebrew. This is interesting to note.

As I have shown from my past threads, Yahweh is either the Devil himself or the Son of God as a Prodigal. If we take the latter, then Jesus is the Humbled Son of God as I try and speculate here: Grigori - Watchers and the Shedding of Blood

If we take the view that Jesus is referring to the Devil as the Father of the Jews, then can we say that Yahweh is Satan? As I point out in the last thread, two ideas should stick in your mind. 1) The nations are deceived. 2) Yahweh created the Snake in Genesis 3.

Genesis 3

3 The snake was more clever than all the wild animals Yahweh Elohim had made. He asked the woman, “Did Elohim really say, ‘You must never eat the fruit of any tree in the garden’?”

Man was innocent before the fall. We were the creation of the Elohim (Father) and Ruach Elohim (Mother) of Genesis 1. Again, I ask the question: Who is Yahweh?

Answering this question once and for all just may be the way to heal the divisions among humanity. Are we truly guilty of the error in creation, or are we the witnesses to the crime?

As 1 John points out, God is Love. As 1 Corinthians 13 points out, Love keeps NO records of wrongs. Yahweh is the adversary to man and the accuser of man. What does the accuser come to do? Steal, kill and destroy. I can find no character in the Bible better at this than Yahweh.

At the least, it makes you think...

While you think on this, there is yet a third view: Yahweh as a Purpose of God
edit on 23-10-2014 by AlephBet because: (no reason given)




posted on Oct, 23 2014 @ 09:42 PM
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a reply to: AlephBet

John 14:6-7
6Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me. 7"If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; from now on you know Him, and have seen Him."


This shoots your whole out of context quote which you have taken literally in the foot. They do not know the Father or seen the Father or heard the Father's voice because they don't believe Jesus is who he is, just as Jesus says in your quote "because you do not believe him whom he has sent".

Your message here is no different that Blavatsky's or any of the other Spiritualists who make God be the bad guy, soon you will be making Satan the good guy, that is the way this stuff works always.

Nothing new under the sun here.


edit on 23-10-2014 by TinfoilTP because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 23 2014 @ 09:50 PM
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Great post, much more to the point than usual. Now consider this, what If Yahweh somehow merged with Jesus, taking over his identity? How could it do this? Through Paul's epistles, Paul was a former Pharisee who persecuted early Christians. His epistles effectively bridged the gap between the OT and the gospels, making Jesus out to be the god of the OT (Yahweh).

As you pointed out, Jesus opposed some of Yahweh's commands blatantly and was nothing like him in character.



posted on Oct, 23 2014 @ 10:01 PM
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originally posted by: TinfoilTP
a reply to: AlephBet

John 14:6-7
6Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me. 7"If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; from now on you know Him, and have seen Him."


This shoots your whole out of context quote which you have taken literally in the foot. They do not know the Father or seen the Father or heard the Father's voice because they don't believe Jesus is who he is, just as Jesus says in your quote "because you do not believe him whom he has sent".

Your message here is no different that Blavatsky's or any of the other Spiritualists who make God be the bad guy, soon you will be making Satan the good guy, that is the way this stuff works always.

Nothing new under the sun here.



You should know, after reading my threads, that I consider Elohim of Genesis 1 as the Father, just as Jesus points back to a Father. Do you have a way to demonstrate that Yahweh is the Father?

If not, then you have only spoken Ad Hominem about me. How can you connect Yahweh to Elohim? I provided a third option that might help you. Did you notice that I have provided all three views, including your own?



posted on Oct, 23 2014 @ 10:06 PM
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originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
Great post, much more to the point than usual. Now consider this, what If Yahweh somehow merged with Jesus, taking over his identity? How could it do this? Through Paul's epistles, Paul was a former Pharisee who persecuted early Christians. His epistles effectively bridged the gap between the OT and the gospels, making Jesus out to be the god of the OT (Yahweh).

As you pointed out, Jesus opposed some of Yahweh's commands blatantly and was nothing like him in character.


In my last thread, I pointed out that we are speculating on this and that this message from the Bible is not to us, but to the Angels. Grigori is the key to this and the chant in the Liturgy is key to knowing why they are chanting a lament to God. In the end, it doesn't matter. The nations ARE deceived and will not be deceived after this generation ends in 2020. The days will be shortened. My guess is that the Jubilee coming up in 2017 is the time we look for. Satan, whoever he is, will be cast into the abyss.

In the end, it is the Angels that are deceived by their own mystery. Enoch had it right. Humans can look into these things. Angels wish to know. We are to open blind eyes and deaf ears. We are not the ones that need to know.


edit on 23-10-2014 by AlephBet because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 23 2014 @ 10:29 PM
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a reply to: AlephBet



In the end, it is the Angels that are deceived by their own mystery. Enoch had it right. Humans can look into these things. Angels wish to know. We are to open blind eyes and deaf ears. We are not the ones that need to know.


So why was was Enoch's book left out of the bible? Because man has had control of it from the beginning, not God.

The Angel that's deceived is you and the answer you say you are not meant to know is the mystery. Mystery solved, you're an angel who has been deceived into thinking the bible is the word of God, and as you admit you are deceived.

The bible is a man made copy of the real word of God which is within every one of us. You want to see Jesus? Look at the image (of God) in front of you, that's the Son of God.



posted on Oct, 23 2014 @ 10:33 PM
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a reply to: TinfoilTP

He is not giving the same message of Blavatsky. He's not saying that Jesus Christ is evil or that The Antichrist is good. Blavtasky revealed some truth: Yahweh is associated with war and murder, in order to deceive with a lie: Jesus Christ is also evil and the antichrist is good.

It's true that Yahweh is associated with war and murder in the old testament. It talks about the many wars in Yahweh's name and stoning people to death, but if Jesus Christ taught against that, then how can Jesus also be evil? That is the deception. He taught not to draw the sword for they that draw the sword will perish by the sword and to instead turn the other cheek and love enemies.

Some people find out the truth that Yahweh is associated with war and murder but then they turn to Lucifer/Satan which is the deception.

Jesus Christ is The Way.

"Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?" - Matthew 5:44-46
edit on 23-10-2014 by arpgme because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 23 2014 @ 11:28 PM
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LAW PROPHET & TESTIMONY that is the only way you can prove what you're saying is right.


How can you connect Yahweh to Elohim?


Elohim told Moses his name at mt Sinai:

L)

2And Elohim said to Moses, “I am Yahweh—‘the LORD.’a 3I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob as El-Shaddai—‘God Almighty’b—but I did not reveal my name, Yahweh, to them. 4And I reaffirmed my covenant with them. Under its terms, I promised to give them the land of Canaan, where they were living as foreigners. 5You can be sure that I have heard the groans of the people of Israel, who are now slaves to the Egyptians. And I am well aware of my covenant with them.


Exodus 6:1-4

P)

The Spirit of the Lord Yahweh is upon me; because Yahweh hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the broken-hearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound


Isaiah 61:1

T)

When he came to the village of Nazareth, his boyhood home, he went as usual to the synagogue on the Sabbath and stood up to read the Scriptures. 17The scroll of Isaiah the prophet was handed to him. He unrolled the scroll and found the place where this was written:

18“The Spirit of Yahweh is upon me,
for he has anointed me to bring Good News to the poor.
He has sent me to proclaim that captives will be released,
that the blind will see,
that the oppressed will be set free,
19and that the time of Yahweh's favor has come.”
20He rolled up the scroll, handed it back to the attendant, and sat down. All eyes in the synagogue looked at him intently. 21Then he began to speak to them. “The Scripture you’ve just heard has been fulfilled this very day!”


Luke 4:16-21

Jesus is Yahweh's express image and here he is confirming who his father is: the Elohim of jacob and abraham.
edit on 24-10-2014 by gorsestar because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 23 2014 @ 11:46 PM
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originally posted by: AlephBet

At the least, it makes you think...

While you think on this, there is yet a third view: Yahweh as a Purpose of God


I have read a lot of your posts and they seem disjointed and confused.
I rarely understand the point you are making or the message you are trying to expound.

Your words are like a fork, lots of points but blunt, no one point or sharp edge.

After reading this post I get it
You are a Gnostic, you cant perceive the reason for the law, you cant understand grace.
You are caught up in who God is and not the gospel message of forgiveness, love and service, what Christ has done.

Thats sad
You cant see Christ's work on the cross because you are more interested in understanding the unfathomable.

Names
ADONAI: The word adon, in Hebrew, is translated "lord." God's name as Adonai is a form of the word "adon" with an "ai" ending. Adonai is used about 439 times in the Bible and can be translated either as "Lord" or as "my Lord". Biblical scholars and linguists, however, cannot agree as to the meaning of the "ai" suffix that has been added to the Hebrew word for "lord" (adon). Some scholars have suggested it indicates a plural of majesty. In most English translations this word is rendered as "Lord" with the first letter capitalized and the other letters lower case. Those translations that have the word "Lord" in all capital letters, "LORD", are instead indicating God's covenant name YHWH (usually rendered "Yahweh"). The use of all capital letters denotes the difference between the use of Adonai and Yahweh. (Only the NRSV translation confuses the issue by rendering Adonai as both "Lord" and "LORD").

EL and ELOHIM: The word El is used for God about 238 times while Elohim is used about 2,600 times. In the Bible Elohim has two distinct meanings. First it is a plural form (-im and -ot are the standard Hebrew plural endings) of the word "god" in the Hebrew and the Canaanite languages which is rendered "el" in the singular (when the word "el" is used for the One True God it is always capitalized = "El"). An example of the first meaning used in the plural form can be found in Deuteronomy 5:7: You shall have not other false gods [elohim] before me. But the most common use of Elohim is its second distinct meaning when it is used as a personal name for God or when referring to God as the true God among false gods. Thus it is used in Genesis 1:1: In the beginning Elohim created the heavens and the earth ..., and also in Joshua 24:19: You cannot worship Yahweh for He is a holy god [elohim].... There is no explanation why the plural form is used for the One True God (as it is in Genesis 1:1). However, scholars from the times of the Fathers of the Church have suggested that the plural form suggests the mystery of the Trinity which was hidden in the Old Testament to be revealed in the New.

YHWH: The four Hebrew consonants that comprise YHWH are given in Scripture as God's holy Covenant name, and it is this form of His name that is the most frequently used in the Bible (about 6,800 times). These four Hebrew characters, YHWH = yad, hay, vav (v in Hebrew can also be rendered w in English), and hay have been called the "Tetragrammaton" or "tetragram", meaning "the four letter word." Biblical scholars do not know how YHWH was originally pronounced because its original pronunciation, which was part of the sacred Oral Tradition of the Jews, was lost when the Temple in Jerusalem was destroyed in 70AD. Throughout history, God's Old Covenant people treated God's name with great reverence, declaring it too holy to be spoken aloud. Speaking God's divine covenant name was restricted to the priests worshipping in God's Temple in Jerusalem, and so with the destruction of the Temple His holy covenant name was no longer spoken and the correct pronunciation of the name was lost. The rendering of YHWH as "Yahweh" is a modern conjecture (first suggested in the 16th century by biblical scholar Gilbert Genebrard, professor of Hebrew at the College Royal in Paris) but which has been accepted by biblical scholars today as the most likely rendering. You will find this rendering in the Catholic New Jerusalem Bible translation. In other translations, following what became the Jewish custom, YHWH is rendered as LORD (for example in the Catholic Revised Standard and New American Bible translations as well as in most Protestant Bible translations). This became a custom from the time of the 3rd century BC when the ancient Jewish scholars translated the Hebrew Bible (Old Testament) into the Greek translation known as the Septuagint. They replaced the Sacred Name YHWH with "ho Kyrios" or "the Lord." In the modern Jewish Tanach YHWH is rendered as Hashem (or ha-Shem, meaning in Hebrew, "the name") or as Adoshem, which is a contraction of Adonai and ha-Shem.

But what does the Tetragrammaton YHWH mean? Biblical scholars have been arguing about the meaning of YHWH for centuries. Since biblical names generally have a discernible meaning, scholars have believed that YHWH can be reasonably translated. Based on etymology and context most scholars have agreed that YHWH is an archaic form of the verb "to be" (in Hebrew hawah) and should be translated "I am who I am or I will be who I will be." This meaning contextually fits the passages in Exodus 3:13-15a: Moses then said to God [Elohim], 'Look, if I go to the Israelites and say to me, "What is his name?" what am I to tell them?' God [Elohim] said to Moses, 'I am [YHWH] he who is.' And he said, 'This is what you are to say to the Israelites I am [YHWH] has sent me to you...', which agrees with Exodus 3:6: I am the God of your ancestors ..., and Jesus' "I AM" statements in the fourth Gospel i.e.: In all truth I tell you, before Abraham ever was, I AM (John 8:58).

JEHOVAH: The Biblical reference to God as Yehova (Jehova), spelled out with Hebrew characters, first appeared in c. 800AD. At that time Jewish scholars (called the Masorites) translated the Greek translation of the (Old Testament) Bible back into Hebrew and added vowel points to the Hebrew language, which had originally only been written with consonants. Since that time, Hebrew Bible manuscripts have inserted the vowels from the Hebrew word "Adonai" (Lord) within the Tetragrammaton ("the four letters), YHWH, as a reminder that readers should say "Adonai" instead of the sacred name which Jews believe must not be spoken. The pronunciation of "Jehovah" was unknown until 1520 AD when a biblical scholar named Galatians introduced it. This pronunciation was contested by other scholars as being against grammatical and historical propriety. However, when Protestant scholars began their vernacular translations (into their common languages) of the Old Testament using the Jewish Masoretic translations, they also mixed the four consonants of YHWH (JHWH in German) with the vowels of Adonai in the mistaken belief that this was the correct pronunciation of the Sacred Name, and from then on, YHWH appeared in Protestant Biblical texts as "Jehovah". This rendering is most frequently used in the King James Version translations as in, Let them be put to shame, and perish: That men may know that thou, whose name alone is Jehovah, art the most high over all the earth (Psalms 83:18).



posted on Oct, 23 2014 @ 11:47 PM
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Modern scholars do not recognize this form as a legitimate name for the Hebrew God and dismiss it as a misreading or mispronunciation.

Names for God found in Sacred Scripture
and some of the passages in which these names are found:

All Scripture quotations are from the New Jerusalem Bible (NJB) unless otherwise noted as from the New American Bible (NAB).

Elohim = "God" (plural) as in the Creator: In the beginning God (Elohim) created the heaven and the earth (Genesis 1:1).

El Elyon = "God (singular) Most High": And Melchizedek king of Salem brought out bread and wine; now he was a priest of [El Elyon] God the Most High. And He blessed him and said, ''blessed be Abram of God Most High, possessor of heaven and earth; and blessed be God Most High, who has delivered your enemies into your hand (Genesis 14:18-20).

El Roi = "God Who Sees": Then she called the name of the LORD who spoke to her, 'You are a [El Roi] God who sees'; for she said, 'Have I even remained alive here after seeing Him?' Therefore the well was called Beer-lahai-roi [well of the living one who sees me] (Genesis 16:13-14).

El Shaddai = "God Almighty" or "God the All-Sufficient One"; the etymology is so ancient that Biblical scholars do not agree on the meaning of this name: I AM El Shaddai. Live in my presence, be perfect, and I shall grant a covenant between myself and you, and make you very numerous. And Abram bowed to the ground (Genesis 17:2-3).

Yahweh = found in Scripture as the consonants YHWH, known as the "Tetragramaton" is God's holy Covenant name. The letters form a word or words from the verb "to be" and most scholars translate it as "I AM who I AM" or "I will be who I will be", or "the Self-Existent One: Moses said to God, 'Look, if I go to the Israelites and say to them, The God of your ancestors has sent me to you, and they say to me, 'What is His name?' what am I to tell them?' God said to Moses, 'I AM He who is. Tell them that I AM who I am sent you (Exodus 3:13-14).

Adonai = "Lord" (Note: LORD, all in capital letters is a substitution out of reverence for God's covenant name "Yahweh"): Then Moses said to the LORD, 'Please Lord, I have never been eloquent, neither recently nor in time past, nor since you have spoken to your servant; for I am slow of speech and slow of tongue. And the LORD said to him, 'Who has made men's mouth? Or who make him dumb or deaf, or seeing or blind? Is it not I, the LORD?' (Exodus 4:10-12, NAB).

Yahweh-jireh = "Yahweh will provide" or "I AM will provide": But the angel of the LORD called to him from heaven and said, 'Abraham, Abraham!' And he said, 'Here I am.' And he said, 'Do not stretch out your hand against the lad, and do nothing to him; for now I know that you fear God, since you have not withheld your son, your only son, form Me.' Then Abraham raised his eyes and looked, and behind him he saw a ram caught up in the thicket by his horns; and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the place of his son. And Abraham called the name of that place [Yahweh jireh] The LORD will provide, as it is said to this day: On the Mountain Yahweh provides (Genesis 22:11-14).

Yahweh-rapha = "Yahweh who heals": If you will give earnest heed to the voice of Yahweh your God and do what He regards as right, if you pay attention to His commandments and keep all His laws, I shall never inflict on you any of the diseases that I inflicted on the Egyptians, for I am Yahweh your Healer [Yahweh rapha] (Exodus 15:26).

Yahweh–nissi = "Yahweh My Banner": (after willing a battle with God's assistance ) Moses built an altar, and named it Yahweh is My Banner [Yahweh-nissi] ...(Exodus 17:16).

Yahweh-mekoddishkem = "Yahweh Who Sanctifies You": And Yahweh spoke to Moses, saying, 'But as for you, speak to the sons of Israel, saying, "You shall surely observe My Sabbaths; for this is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am Yahweh who sanctifies you [Yahweh-mekoddishkem]...(Exodus 31:12).

Yahweh-shalom = "Yahweh is Peace": He said, 'Alas, my Lord, Yahweh! Now I have seen the Angel of Yahweh face to face ' Yahweh answered, 'Peace be with you; have no fear; you will not die.' Gideon built an altar there to Yahweh and called it Yahweh is peace [Yahweh-shalom] (Judges 6:22-24).

Yahweh-sabaoth = "Yahweh of Hosts" (the "hosts" are the army of angels who serve God): Who is He, this king of glory? Yahweh of Hosts [Yahweh-saboath], He is the king of glory (Psalm 46:7, NJB); The LORD of Hosts [Yahweh-sabaoth] is with us; the God of Jacob is our stronghold (Psalms 22:10, NAB).

Yahweh-raah = "Yahweh My Shepherd": The LORD [Yahweh raah] is my shepherd; I shall not want ...(Psalms 23:1, NAB).

Yahweh-tsidkenu = "Yahweh Our Saving Justice": Look, the days are coming, Yahweh declares, when I shall rise an upright Branch for David; He will reign as king and be wise, doing what is just and upright in the country. In his days Judah will triumph and Israel live in safety, and this is the name He will be called Yahweh-our-saving-justice [Yahweh-tsidkenu] (Jeremiah 23:5-6).

The Names of Jesus in the Book of Revelation:

1:5 The First-born from the dead
1:5 The highest of earthly kings
1:8 The Alpha and Omega (also 22:13)
1:8 Lord God
1:8 The Almighty
1:13 Son of Man
1:17 The First and the Last (also 1:11;21:6;22:13)
1:18 The Living One
2:18 Son of God
3:14 Witness (also "faithful witness" in 1:5)
4:11 Creator
5:5 Lion of the Tribe of Judah
5:5 Root of David
5:6 The Lamb
7:17 The Shepherd
12:10 Christ (Anointed)
19:11 Faithful and True
19:13 Word of God
19:16 King of Kings
19:16 Lord of Lords
What ever word you use when you call upon the name of God, remember to call in reverence and in love for the word that expresses the essence of God in His most intimate relationship with you is LOVE, for God is love (1 John 4:16c).

We are waiting for Yahweh;
He is our help and our shield,
For in Him our heart rejoices,
In His holy name we trust.
Yahweh, let your faithful love rest on us.
As our hope has rested in you.
Psalms 33:20-22
edit on b2014Thu, 23 Oct 2014 23:48:17 -0500103120144pm312014-10-23T23:48:17-05:00 by borntowatch because: www.agapebiblestudy.com...



posted on Oct, 24 2014 @ 12:14 AM
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a reply to: AlephBet
I would suggest that when Jesus was talking about his Father, he was speaking to his disciples. I don't recall Yahweh speaking to any of them. But Moses on the other hand, yes. It is written pretty much as you have stated.



posted on Oct, 24 2014 @ 12:19 AM
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a reply to: darkwingduck

Yahweh speaking to whom? Explain what you want to say



posted on Oct, 24 2014 @ 12:52 AM
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a reply to: gorsestar

I don't recall reading anywhere in the New Testament of God the Father talking to anyone. And I believe Jesus was addressing his disciples when he said that none of them has heard his voice or seen his form. That is what I meant to say.



posted on Oct, 24 2014 @ 01:17 AM
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a reply to: darkwingduck


originally posted by: darkwingduck
I don't recall reading anywhere in the New Testament of God the Father talking to anyone.


The Heavenly Father spoke to Peter, James, and John while they were on the mountain with Jesus during the transfiguration:

"And there was a cloud that overshadowed them: and a voice came out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him." - Mark 9:7


originally posted by: darkwingduck
And I believe Jesus was addressing his disciples when he said that none of them has heard his voice or seen his form.


"All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him." - Matthew 11:27
edit on 24-10-2014 by arpgme because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 24 2014 @ 01:27 AM
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a reply to: arpgme

Of course, you are right. I was thinking like he spoke to Moses, personally, back and forth, conversation like.



posted on Oct, 24 2014 @ 01:28 AM
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originally posted by: arpgme
a reply to: darkwingduck


originally posted by: darkwingduck
I don't recall reading anywhere in the New Testament of God the Father talking to anyone.


The Heavenly Father spoke to Peter, James, and John while they were on the mountain with Jesus during the transfiguration:

"And there was a cloud that overshadowed them: and a voice came out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him." - Mark 9:7


originally posted by: darkwingduck
And I believe Jesus was addressing his disciples when he said that none of them has heard his voice or seen his form.


"All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him." - Matthew 11:27
Do you suppose that he was talking of the living?



posted on Oct, 24 2014 @ 01:33 AM
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Sigh...

The worst part of all this is how people defend this tyrant so vehemently

Time to break the bindings of what you've been taught people.... READ THE BOOK!!

The OT god is a vile character of the very worst kind... in fact there are few worse in all of written history or fiction

and you associate him with the one who you claim has saved you

How utterly disgusting...



posted on Oct, 24 2014 @ 02:21 AM
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a reply to: darkwingduck



Do you suppose that he was talking of the living?


"Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls." - Matthew 11:29

Yes, he was speaking of the living. He was talking to the living and telling them to learn of him and then they shall find rest unto their souls. So yes, he was speaking of the living.

Matthew 11:27 says that they did not know The Father before Jesus Christ revealed him to them, and what did Jesus Christ reveal about God?

God is merciful and even loves evil people and we should therefore likewise be merciful and love our enemies:

"But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil. Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful." - Luke 6:35-36

"But I say unto you Love your enemies bless them that curse you do good to them that hate you and pray for them which despitefully use you and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. For if ye love them which love you what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?" - Matthew 5:44-46



posted on Oct, 24 2014 @ 02:29 AM
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originally posted by: Akragon
Sigh...

The worst part of all this is how people defend this tyrant so vehemently

Time to break the bindings of what you've been taught people.... READ THE BOOK!!

The OT god is a vile character of the very worst kind... in fact there are few worse in all of written history or fiction

and you associate him with the one who you claim has saved you

How utterly disgusting...


No the worst part of this is people ignoring the clear biblical facts

God, Jehovah, YHWH is no tyrant.
He is the King and a Judge and He judged sinners and they were condemned for their sin, simple.

Jesus came to provide grace from the clear and simple laws that were handed down to mankind and are still in effect today.
Sin and destruction outside of Christ is guaranteed.

Humanity is the vile character, saved by Christ's redemption at the cross, from the burden of righteous judgement, only and fairly ordained by the Father God and His laws.

Read the BOOK

Gnostics, I just dont understand the delusion.



posted on Oct, 24 2014 @ 02:32 AM
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a reply to: Akragon

There's no New Testament without the Old Testament. Don't be ridiculous. We all know you hate God, and so you've created a version of God of your own.

Now that's disgusting.


46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me.

47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

edit on 24-10-2014 by graphuto because: (no reason given)



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