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NATO Struggles to Find Troops for Missions

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posted on Dec, 9 2004 @ 09:11 AM
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"BRUSSELS, Belgium NATO foreign ministers pledged Thursday to speed the expansion of alliance peacekeeping in Afghanistan and boost military training for Iraq, but failed to come up immediately with the troops for both operations.

Alliance officials expressed disappointment that ministers had not committed all the troops, planes and helicopters needed to extend the 8,000-strong Afghan peacekeeping force from its bases in Kabul and the north into the west of the country."

www.foxnews.com...

What is important here is what isn't said. France and Germany are leading the way in "stiffing" NATO on this matter. NATO is over as far as I can see. Just "dump" it. It has no purpose anymore. Let Europe defend itself. No dollars for donuts anymore.............




posted on Dec, 9 2004 @ 09:40 AM
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I do not get your point, NATO or UN troops are there fighting Americas war. So do not tell me there is no support. There would be no need for troops if it had not been invaded.



posted on Dec, 9 2004 @ 09:52 AM
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Excuse me Kriz, although there is a LITTLE truth to your comment, you need to undertsand the UN is there to protect thier Oil For Food money. Anan wont risk losing that paycheck to the US....



posted on Dec, 9 2004 @ 09:57 AM
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Originally posted by Kriz_4
I do not get your point, NATO or UN troops are there fighting Americas war. So do not tell me there is no support. There would be no need for troops if it had not been invaded.


So will you be donating money to Saddams defense fund? The UN donated $21 BILLION.



posted on Dec, 9 2004 @ 09:58 AM
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Ok, if you say so. France Germany both have troops there, so how are they not helping?



posted on Dec, 9 2004 @ 09:59 AM
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Originally posted by Kriz_4
Ok, if you say so. France Germany both have troops there, so how are they not helping?


Please post a link that France and Germany have troops in Iraq!



posted on Dec, 9 2004 @ 10:01 AM
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Afghanistan Horacid, as you mentioned in your first post?

They do not have troops in Iraq, I agree. They are helping in Afghanistan so you cannot say they do not help. I do not blame them for not sending troops to Iraq.



posted on Dec, 9 2004 @ 10:05 AM
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Originally posted by DrHoracid
What is important here is what isn't said. France and Germany are leading the way in "stiffing" NATO on this matter. NATO is over as far as I can see. Just "dump" it. It has no purpose anymore. Let Europe defend itself. No dollars for donuts anymore.............


How much do you know about France and Germany's involvement in Afghanistan or their involvement in NATO?


www.ambafrance-us.org...

Afghanistan, 1,800 French troops make France the second largest partner of the United States in Afghanistan after Germany. French contributions include troops deployed through the International Security and Assistance Force (950, 10.5% of ISAF), training of the Afghan national army, Operation Enduring Freedom on the ground (special forces), at sea (2 frigates, 1 tanker, and 1 Maritime Patrol Aircraft), and in the air (2 transport aircraft, 3 reconnaissance jet fighters and 1 tanker);



France and Germany in NATO:


- With about 4,300 troops, France is the third largest Member State contributor to NATO operations after Germany (6,800), and Italy (5,200), and contributes more troops than the United States (3,000) and the United Kingdom (1,800).


Can you please explain the 'dollars for donuts' line?
How much of America's money is going to support NATO troops of other nations?
It seems to me that some of the other nations around the world are paying the US:

ALLIED CONTRIBUTIONS TO THE COMMON DEFENSE (defenselink.mil)
Cost Sharing Contributions
As shown in Chart II-4, in 2001 (the most recent year for which data are available) the United States received direct and indirect cost sharing assistance from our NATO, Pacific, and GCC allies estimated at about $7.5 billion...

...NATO countries have long provided indirect support for U.S. forces stationed on their territory. Our allies provide bases and facilities rent- free, various tax exemptions, and reduced-cost services. NATO allies with the largest cost sharing contributions to the United States in 2001 were Germany ($862 million) and Italy ($324 million).

In addition to bilateral cost sharing, our NATO allies also provide multilateral cost sharing, through common- and jointly-funded budgets. These include the NATO Security Investment Program (NSIP); the NATO Military Budget for the operations and maintenance (O&M) of NATO Military Headquarters, agencies, and common-use facilities; and the NATO Civil Budget for the O&M of NATO Headquarters and several non-military programs including civil preparedness.



posted on Dec, 9 2004 @ 10:37 AM
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The article talks about NATO not being able to fulfill its missions. Several Euro countries have refused to send its NATO forces to Iraq. The issue here is Iraq...........You now where Saddam "Bought" the France and Germany with the Oil for Food scam.

"Dollars for donuts" is a old term for the military spending money "off-base" in a foriegn country like GERMANY or FRANCE. Too much US money is being pumped into those "prepurchased Veto" economies.



posted on Dec, 9 2004 @ 10:44 AM
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Originally posted by DrHoracid
"Dollars for donuts" is a old term for the military spending money "off-base" in a foriegn country like GERMANY or FRANCE. Too much US money is being pumped into those "prepurchased Veto" economies.


That's fine.
I think the US should end all overseas bases anyway.



posted on Dec, 9 2004 @ 11:04 AM
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Originally posted by DrHoracid
NATO is over as far as I can see. Just "dump" it. It has no purpose anymore. Let Europe defend itself. No dollars for donuts anymore.............


What a great idea. I think the US ought to evacuate every single military base they have in Europe and around it. Let Europe defend itself! And it will be better off anyway. Close the Ramstein base. Less pollution there.

NATO has lost its purpose except being an inwilling participant in the US show of global force. Stupid things like bombing the hell out of Serbia was a first clear sign that NATO is dead at heart.



[edit on 9-12-2004 by Aelita]



posted on Dec, 9 2004 @ 11:12 AM
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Please post a link that France and Germany have troops in Iraq!

We will not send soldiers. Correct. But we help differently. Sending Soldiers there would be a)political suicide and b)Cause a very serious lawsuit against the government for violating the constitution.

www.bundesregierung.de... run this through babelfish.altavista.com...

And we did send troops to Kuwait against ABC Weapons. But they did not set foot on Iraqi soil.

Unfortunatly we do not have the logistics to support more troops in Afghanistan. The ones we have there already have some problems with that.



posted on Dec, 9 2004 @ 11:16 AM
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Originally posted by tsuribito


Please post a link that France and Germany have troops in Iraq!

We will not send soldiers. Correct. But we help differently. Sending Soldiers there would be a)political suicide and b)Cause a very serious lawsuit against the government for violating the constitution.

www.bundesregierung.de... run this through babelfish.altavista.com...

And we did send troops to Kuwait against ABC Weapons. But they did not set foot on Iraqi soil.

Unfortunatly we do not have the logistics to support more troops in Afghanistan. The ones we have there already have some problems with that.


My german needed practice, my great aunt would be proud. Please explain the lawsuit issue?

[edit on 9-12-2004 by DrHoracid]



posted on Dec, 9 2004 @ 12:01 PM
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Article 26 of the Grundgesetz says that it is unlawful for any german to assist in, wage or support a war of agression. You get at least 10 years in prison for it.
The only exception are wars that have UN backing or if there is an immediate danger to german security.(i.e. Russian tanks driving west through the GDR at full speed ^^ )

The problem is now that since the 3rd Gulfwar was fought without UN support and the USA are still occupying iraq legally,sending troops there could be considered as support for it and therefore would be unlawful.

www.friedensini.de...
those guys actually sued the Chanchelor,the minister of defense and the foreign minister on the war in kosovo. But the Lawsuit became obsolete when the UN SC decided on the war later.



posted on Dec, 9 2004 @ 12:19 PM
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Originally posted by DrHoracid
So will you be donating money to Saddams defense fund? The UN donated $21 BILLION.

The US has done far worse yet you critisise a few members?
Thats called being a hypocrit.



posted on Dec, 9 2004 @ 12:21 PM
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Originally posted by devilwasp

Originally posted by DrHoracid
So will you be donating money to Saddams defense fund? The UN donated $21 BILLION.

The US has done far worse yet you critisise a few members?
Thats called being a hypocrit.


Last time I looked the UN oil-for-food scam was the largest in hman history. Yes, I will flame a few pre-purchased members.



posted on Dec, 9 2004 @ 12:23 PM
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Originally posted by tsuribito
those guys actually sued the Chanchelor,the minister of defense and the foreign minister on the war in kosovo. But the Lawsuit became obsolete when the UN SC decided on the war later.


Good to hear there is rule of law still, in some countries.

Germany is right about having such laws in place.



posted on Dec, 9 2004 @ 12:27 PM
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Originally posted by DrHoracid
Last time I looked the UN oil-for-food scam was the largest in hman history. Yes, I will flame a few pre-purchased members.


Are you really saying that the USA isn't as guilty, or more guilty, than countries that didn't support the occupation??



posted on Dec, 9 2004 @ 12:27 PM
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Originally posted by Aelita

Originally posted by tsuribito
those guys actually sued the Chanchelor,the minister of defense and the foreign minister on the war in kosovo. But the Lawsuit became obsolete when the UN SC decided on the war later.


Good to hear there is rule of law still, in some countries.

Germany is right about having such laws in place.


Sounds more like Chaos to me. Elect a leader then sue him for leading?



posted on Dec, 9 2004 @ 12:29 PM
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Originally posted by curme

Originally posted by DrHoracid
Last time I looked the UN oil-for-food scam was the largest in hman history. Yes, I will flame a few pre-purchased members.


Are you really saying that the USA isn't as guilty, or more guilty, than countries that didn't support the occupation??


The US is guilty of what? Stopping a madman? Stopping terrorist?



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