VIRAL cross contamination... What you may have forgotten and what might be important...

Hi Folks.

Winter is shortly upon us again and with this wonderful season the whole batch of nasty little viruses that make our lives such misery :

A long list of common viruses can be found here :

viralzone.expasy.org...

Sorry, this list is just WAYYYYY too long so please do take a look.

Over the past couple of weeks and months the Ebola issue has become more and more alarming to many members here…

I have deliberately kept out of most threads which have been posted here mainly because as soon as I start discussing this topic, one or two certain members will automatically come up (in my opinion) with negative answers or claim that I am boasting about my past experiences as a veterinary welfare officer in Gvt and private research intitutes..

So… without any further ado and taking into consideration my past experience in laboratory cross contamination issues, here I go again for the respected members here and to set things straight concerning CROSS CONTAMINATION.

I have also deliberately kept my english language to a non scientific and easy to read level for our INTERNATIONAL members as there are more countries than the good old U.S of A... so please have respect for our international members who do not have english as a native tongue.

First of all, PICTURE THIS :

Imagine yourself as a NON country of origin visitor coming into the country as a tourist or business traveller for the first time...

Or even a national citizen travelling around the country in question and having to go through an international airport as part of your travels...

For NON country citizens we are herded through a seperate corridor which can last up to a couple of hours in a queue and subjected to a whole batch of security checks...

In my case this is more difficult as I have a neurostimulator implanted so am subjected to a full frisk as well as dragging along my cabin baggage, taking off my shoes and belt and being swabbed down for explosives... (after having filled out the security form... depending on which country I am visiting.)

For citizens of the same country we are still subjected to fairly long security check ups... The stress caused is absolutely awful...

THAT QUEUE... yep the same one that cripes knows how many travellers have been standing in for cripes knows how many hours...

Scratching their noses... coughing and spluttering... sweating their backsides off due to the stress of the whole procedure...

The same queue that has a metal handrail on one side... that same handrail for which each and every person at at least one time whilst waiting in the queue will actually use when they have tired feet/ankles/legs after so much travelling to actually hold onto or lean against to gain a little relief...

That same Hotspot handrail that is covered in god knows how many bacterial components...

HOW MANY PEOPLE after leaning or placing their hands on that handrail will actually then pick their noses again, BITE the skin or nails on their fingers etc etc?

People from MANY international destinations???

Check this timelapse video out and imagine the number of people who may be coughing, picking their noses, gone to the toilet without washing their hands AND THEN hold onto the same handrail that YOU are going to hold onto??? :



Take the subway for example too... ANY subway... ANYWHERE in the world...

Ever seen how people act in a subway??

Here is an example :

ALSO LISTEN TO THOSE PEOPLE COUGHING RIGHT AT THE VERY BEGINNING...



Picture yourself in a subway... a crowded one at rush hour... you lean against the SAME wall that someone similar has just wiped their snot and gunk or coughed and spluttered all over...

Picture yourself in that same subway cabin...???

No matter where you are in your everyday life...you are going to be touching your face or any other part of your body as well as having your fingers in your mouth/nose/eyes/ears at least 5 times a day...

Scary huh?

I think this is a fairly global picture of how easy it is to catch one of those nasties hanging around there...

The same thing can happen in your local tiny village shop/bus stop etc...

Over the years I have worked in BSL 2,3 and 4 conditions and have become quite sensitive as to how easy it is to cross contaminate. I shall shortly be writing a thread about the precautions that are "normally" used in most GLP research laboratories (Good laboratory practice) THAT SHOULD be respected for public health...

REMEMBER... Each person that you may shake hands with, kiss on the cheek (including family members) has touched AT LEAST 10 EVERDAY OBJECTS throughout the day that may have been touched by one of those many people that I have been depicted above... Including your everyday groceries... AND THE CHAIN GOES ON AND AN AND ON....

Great thread came up this morning here : www.abovetopsecret.com...

This is common sense and logic... Not fear mongering as "some" people like to put it...

Opinions and comments respected members?

Kindest respects

Rodinus

Nicely said.

S&F

The real problem as I see it, is to teach the public how to be careful.

But if things get real bad, the Authorities will just react as they normally do and make picking your nose or coughing into your hand an illegal act and fill up the prisons that way.

Even if you can get people to wear face masks when out in public, you will still get people stuffing up when the take them off without cleaning their hands first and you will always get those that want to reuse them.

Good business to buy into, face masks.

P

Its a very real and valid point. I have always been concerned about contamination from the pat down gloves that TSA use. They clearly dont change gloves between encounters many times and could be transferring almost anything. Okay....the risk of ebola might be small but what about the numerous other viruses and bacteria that one can get sick from.

But yes...excellent point in regards to ebola...its a real risk if an infected person is wandering around.

originally posted by: aussiefly
Its a very real and valid point. I have always been concerned about contamination from the pat down gloves that TSA use. They clearly dont change gloves between encounters many times and could be transferring almost anything. Okay....the risk of ebola might be small but what about the numerous other viruses and bacteria that one can get sick from.

But yes...excellent point in regards to ebola...its a real risk if an infected person is wandering around.

And don't forget all those plastic containers that they use that we put all our personal effects into... do you reckon they are sterilised in-between each usage?.... Urrghhhhh

Kindest respects

Rodinus

originally posted by: pheonix358
Nicely said.

S&F

The real problem as I see it, is to teach the public how to be careful.

But if things get real bad, the Authorities will just react as they normally do and make picking your nose or coughing into your hand an illegal act and fill up the prisons that way.

Even if you can get people to wear face masks when out in public, you will still get people stuffing up when the take them off without cleaning their hands first and you will always get those that want to reuse them.

Good business to buy into, face masks.

P

Getting back to what you pertinently said earlier on Pheonix, this makes me think of something when I was just wee high to a grasshopper...

When I was a kid I always remember my elders saying to me that if I had a cold or cough to sneeze or cough into my hand...

The worst thing to do as afterwards what would we do/place our hands...

Our elders even said that we should wash our hands after going to the toilet... the thing is... OK, you wash your hands...

To do this you have to handle the tap and wash your hands... What about the person afterwards that turns the tap on again to fill up a simple glass of water?... contaminated...

Educating the general public into being COMPLETELY cross contamination free is liking trying to spit into the wind if I may say so?

I cannot see ANY international Government coming up with an EASY TO UNDERSTAND public health cross contamination campaign uless they spend humongous amounts of money in advertising...

Vicious circle methinks...

Kindest respects

Rodinus

I was just thinking about it and suspect that the only way you could do it would be to go outside wearing PPE/Gloves as an external layer and then making sure that the gloves are removed properly and they never come into contact with you in any way. I doubt that this is really doable for the majority of humanity to live like that. So whats the alternative...complete lockdown/isolation of the healthy?

I suspect some education is the key here...I remember in school taking a swab from a toilet door handle and innoculation an agar petrie dish. What grew on that would disgust you...and that was a clean facility.

Ultimately, you are right...education to even just minimise this on the eve of major outbreaks is the key...but rather difficult.

Food for thought

Too true, all the potential for cross-contamination. Caution is necessary, and as a mild germophobe I am always hyperaware of touching people and things and this is why I rarely fly or use public restrooms, wash and wipe my hands a lot, and try to touch as little as possible.

However, there is also the side that says that if you are exposed to a lot of things you tend to build up a natural immunity, too, and that if you use too much anti-bacterial "stuff" (as in wipes and soaps and hand sanitizer) you actually lower the ability of your immune system to fight the creepy crawlies out there.

I used to catch all sorts of stuff my son brought home from school when I worked at home, mostly things that barely affected him at all because he was more exposed to a lot of things and I was exposed to barely anything.

So there's some sort of natural balance you have to strike and allow your body to adapt and cope, though maybe certainly not in times of caution and danger as we are in now with ebola and the latest enterovirus. Common sense tops all, I suppose, and awareness is key.

I suspect some education is the key here...I remember in school taking a swab from a toilet door handle and innoculation an agar petrie dish. What grew on that would disgust you...and that was a clean facility.

ultimately, you are right...education to even just minimise this on the eve of major outbreaks is the key...but rather difficult.

Food for thought

Maybe I have got it right this time? :

You mean a bit like this :

While you're feasting, where are the germs festering? To get the dirt on dining out, ABC News Consumer Correspondent Elisabeth Leamy went undercover at 10 restaurants in three states. She took swab samples from 10 surfaces you come typically in contact with at a restaurant. Then Dr. Philip Tierno and his team at the New York University Microbiology Department lab tested the samples. What's dirtiest? The condiments? Do bacteria pull up a chair and join you at the table?

More here : abcnews.go.com...

AND EVEN THIS.... WHICH IS MORE THAN SHOCKING FOR MOST UNSUSPECTING MEMBERS :

You might want to use an elbow to push the elevator button the next time you are in a hospital. A new study suggests that elevator buttons in hospitals have more bacteria on them than surfaces in public bathrooms in hospitals. Analysis of the swabs taken in the study found most of the bugs were benign. But that might not always be the case, said senior author Dr. Donald Redelmeier. Read more: www.ctvnews.ca...

Full story here : www.ctvnews.ca...

Kindest respects

Rodinus

Its icky to think about... public transportation or facilities are a death trap during any deadly type of outbreak... period.

During outbreaks of these types:
Maybe they could start making people utilizing public transportation use one of those sterilizing hand wipes or cleansers before they get in line and then immediately afterward have them put on a pair of sanitation gloves for the long stands in line while in close contact w/ each other...

Its not fail safe but little things like this might help.



leolady

Sometimes sterility may not be the answer , but in fact the opposite is considered healthy conditions .



There's more than a billion bacteria found in a just a teaspoon of humic topsoil.

In plant pathology it has been shown that the presence of such a plethora creates strong resistance to diseases . It works by the fact that a stable culture like is found in soils crowds out the nasties , which are far more able to multiply and spread amongst sterile plant tissue than tissue which has already been colonised .

Its not exactly on topic but in certain situations this organic displacement practise (through an atomizer or sprayer normally) might far outstrip the biological sanitisation techniques . What little we know about microbiology does include that certain micro-organisms become food for others , usually the longer lasting ones , leaving the cultures which we know to be 'safe' , ie eating sandwiches with soily hands won't kill you . More likely to boost your own immune system .

I'm taking a microbiology class on a community college campus right now. It obviously hasn't made me a microbe expert, but what it HAS done is make me more aware of myself and what's around me. We did an experiment where we quickly and lightly touched a swab to the door handle and then inoculated an agar petri dish. After two days, the dish was absolutely covered in bacterial growth. Since that day, I have been much more aware of where I put my hands. For example, walking up the stairs: no more touching the handrails! Handwashing? Turn off the tap with a paper towel! Open bathroom door with a paper towel! These are all simple things that everyone should be doing. Sitting in lecture it's like seeing and listening to a symphony of coughs, sneezes, throat clearing, face touching, etc. And it's unbelievable how much people don't appreciate one another's personal space, always standing closer than necessary. I can't even begin thinking about the germs my kid encounters at her school. Ick.

originally posted by: pheonix358
Nicely said.

S&F

The real problem as I see it, is to teach the public how to be careful.

But if things get real bad, the Authorities will just react as they normally do and make picking your nose or coughing into your hand an illegal act and fill up the prisons that way.

Even if you can get people to wear face masks when out in public, you will still get people stuffing up when the take them off without cleaning their hands first and you will always get those that want to reuse them.

Good business to buy into, face masks.

P

One can teach others repeatedly how NOT to cough, sneeze, etc and it will go in one ear and out the other. Here are a couple of examples:

Last week I was on the bus when an elderly woman (who happens to be a sweetheart, btw, but careless), was coughing, wiping her runny nose, while on board. I made a point of using the other handrail because I didn't want to take any chances. I then used my hand sanitizer AND the special wipes they have at the entrance of the store we went to.

A couple of months ago I was stuck in the waiting room in my doctor's office and a woman several rows away was coughing heavily into the middle of a magazine she grabbed from the table. It was a bronchitis-type of cough, you had to hear it. Both myself and another patient just stared at each other, thinking "what the ##$$@ is she doing?"

Going back to that store....about a month ago I saw this man use the self-serve donut case. He didn't have any gloves on, nor did he use those papers they provide. He was having trouble deciding which ones to get and he picked a donut, observed it carefully, put it back in the case and chose another one. He did this several times.

Because of that I refuse to use the self-serve donut case in that or any other store.

Re. masks, I have a small supply. Gloves too. Nothing fancy. I could pick up an n-95 mask and they're not very expensive but strange looking. I could imagine the looks I would get from people if I go about with that on.

I also have a supply of hand sanitizer, antibacterial wipes and Clorox wipes.

Even if it weren't for Ebola I still have to be careful because of my medical history which includes asthma. I can't afford to even catch a cold because that normally turns into bronchitis for me. Once I came very close to pneumonia. Never again.

So, whenever I'm in public and I see someone act with such a lack of regard for others when they cough and sneeze on them, etc. they shouldn't be surprised if I give them dirty looks.

They can take their germs somewhere else as far as I'm concerned. Pooey.