America's 'Di�n Bi�n Phu' in Iraq

If you have not read this paper by Joe Vialls, you should

As Republican Guard strategists suck U.S. combat troops further north into unwanted urban areas like Fallujah, Samarra, Kirkuk and Mosul, America's supply lines from Kuwait in the far south become longer and thinner. Eventually those supply lines will be attacked by the Shi'ite Mehdi Army and cut completely, thereby starving the U.S. combat troops into surrender. To understand how and why this will happen, we need to travel back in time to March 1954. Source

This is just the beginning of a great history lesson that brings us to the current day...specifically I want to post this because of this statement.

Vietnamese Senior General Vo Nguyen Giap, flanked on the left by Di�n Bi�n Phu and on the right by Khe Sanh. One of the main reasons that America will come to such a cataclysmic end in Iraq, is the stubborn racist mindset at West Point, which still holds that a mere "Gook" or "Chink" like Giap could not possibly have overwhelmed the massive firepower of both France and America in Vietnam. Thirty years after the last GI scrambled off the roof of the U.S. Embassy in Saigon to escape to an aircraft carrier at sea, the American military remains in complete psychological denial. It couldn't happen so it didn't happen, even though it did happen, if you see what I mean...

Will America fail in Iraq because of our Racist White Politics and our disregard for any other people based on ther Race or Ethnicity. Hasn't history shown this to be true? We dropped an atom bomb on the Japs, why not the Germans? Where white europeans too important to drop bombs on them? Please answer the question...Is America So Racist that It Will Lose this War out of Ignorance?


WAR

I think you answered it in your last question.

.Is America So Racist that It Will Lose this War out of Ignorance?

Yes.

Thanks for answering the question. I think this topic won't get many hits because many people don't like to talk about racism. And the fact of the matter is that many ethnic minorities in America do not really get into 'the internet' because of financial reasons and culture that has developed within their communities. I've studied a lot about racism and have learned that many white people would rather forget about it than to talk about it.

Although your logic is sound, the times aren�t the same. There are some key differences that will not allow something like this to happen in Iraq.

#1, I don�t think the insurgents are organized enough anymore to effectively hold and keep a supply line closed. I.e. they could certainly mount an attack, maybe even disrupt it, but they could not hold it for any length of time.

#2, There are a lot of wide open spaces easily accessed by the air. And the US maintains control over the air. In a worst case scenario, I.e. the ground supply line is cut off, an air supply line could be implemented till the ground could be re-secured. The air aspect also adds another advantage: Cover for ground troops. In Vietnam, the jungle complicated this tremendously. In Iraq air support is much more viable and useful.

So, even though you appear to think all Americans are racist and will fail because of it, in this case I don�t think cutting off our supply lines would be successful, certainly not for any length of time.

Originally posted by 00PS
I've studied a lot about racism and have learned that many white people would rather forget about it than to talk about it.

Your absolutly right. We have become so desensitized to racism that we dont see it, even when its right in front of our faces.

Originally posted by skippytjc
So, even though you appear to think all Americans are racist and will fail because of it, in this case I don�t think cutting off our supply lines would be successful, certainly not for any length of time.

I don't want to appear all Americans are racist, but it's a problem, just like people in Taiwan think it should be free but some don't. I don't want to get into the Taiwan debate here, but it's just that I'm not trying to generalize or stereotype Americans at all. There are many Americans that don't even know they are racist and there are Americans who know they are and there are Americans that know they are and are trying not to be while there are Americans that are not.

On the issue of the supply lines, I don't think we've come to a conclusion on that even within our own military, the threat is there.

Originally posted by 00PS
I've studied a lot about racism and have learned that many white people would rather forget about it than to talk about it.

That's right. Only white people can be racist. When any other group dislikes a different type of race it's an ethnic diversity.

Any time a black man sees a white man and thinks "O boy here comes a white racist" that is racism as well. Please stop stereotyping. Racism is not confined to one group of people.

[edit on 9-12-2004 by dbates]

Three problems here:

1) The battle of Dien Bien Phu involved not the US, but the French.
2) Your using cliche's, such as "chink' and 'gook' to equate and justify your reasoning for "racism". Well, I guess this could be said for all opposing forces in a combat situation, eh? Germans= 'krauts', etc. Japanese = 'slant eyes', 'nips', etc. Do I need to continue?
3) Your using blanket terms such as "many" and "Americans". Pretty strange coming from one who claims to have studied "racism"?

The bomb wasn't dropped on Germany, because the war in Europe was virtually over and resistance was nothing like what was to be had 'if' the US had invaded Japan, to get Japan to surrender. History lesson, indeed. What selective historical sources you reading?



seekerof

Originally posted by dbates

Originally posted by 00PS
I've studied a lot about racism and have learned that many white people would rather forget about it than to talk about it.

That's right. Only white people can be racist. When any other group dislikes a different type of race it's an ethnic diversity.

Any time a black man sees a white man and thinks "O boy here comes a white racist" that is racism as well. Please stop stereotyping. Racism is not confined to one group of people.

[edit on 9-12-2004 by dbates]

I have only said that White people, many of them, would wish to forget racism rather than to talk about it. Where did I ever say anything 'sterotyping' that's on your conception. Of course you are white so you throw out there the 'reverse racism' arguement. If you would really like to 'dbate' about racism I have a feeling you have a lot to learn. Racism is not about color, its about levels of power in a society. Only those with power can be Racist against others...Check yourself before you wreck yourself...

With your continued use of "blanket terms," the same 'advice' that your are so dogmatically stipulating might well need to be heeded by you, as well?



seekerof

Originally posted by Seekerof
Three problems here:

1) The battle of Dien Bien Phu involved not the US, but the French.
2) Your using cliche's, such as "chink' and 'gook' to equate and justify your reasoning for "racism". Well, I guess this could be said for all opposing forces in a combat situation, eh? Germans= 'krauts', etc. Japanese = 'slant eyes', 'nips', etc. Do I need to continue?
3) Your using blanket terms such as "many" and "Americans". Pretty strange coming from one who claims to have studied "racism"?

The bomb wasn't dropped on Germany, because the war in Europe was virtually over and resistance was nothing like what was to be had 'if' the US had invaded Japan, to get Japan to surrender. History lesson, indeed. What selective historical sources you reading?

seekerof

One's that I guess you didn't have when you were in School because we had the bomb before Germany was destroyed...how's that one for ya slick?

Point is Racist White Policies will make the US lose in it's war in Iraq. I don't think you read the whole article I read did you, but that's ok You can post what you like.

I see everyone here would like to avoid the actual question and use those great debunking techniques that were posted the other day..From now on I guess I should just ignore that posts that contain no worty response to the actual topic...Please read the whole words people...I think it states to Answer the Question...which none of you have, instead you just want to attack me becaues I bring up racism...ooh touchy subject?? So defensive now arn't you!

[edit on 9-12-2004 by 00PS]

The fact is, in America, the power table is occupied by whites. They share 'theatrical' power with other races so it isnt so obvious. Some might call it a white agenda. White people dont like to talk about it because it makes them look bad and feel quite uncomfortable with themselves. Before I get any crap for this, I am white.

Racism- Ra-cism n. The notion that one's own ethnic stock is superior.

Straight out of the dictionary.

Now, there was a claim that racism has nothing to do with race but with power structure.

It is true that those with power do supress those without power, it's been going on long before the U.S. came along. Look at the tribes in Africa, the Mongals the Romans ad neausem. However, "racism" is about race, hence where the word derives. Perhaps a different term could be used in this question.

Back to the question of will the U.S. lose because it is racist? No. Why? Because this war isn't being faught because of race. It is a factor, yes, because the two sides are of different races.

Actually I'm wasting my time here. After re-reading the original poster's subsequent comments they already have come to their own conclusion and no amount of debate will change it.

Peace to you.

i don't think it would be racism for US commanders to think their supply lines will be ok. i think it is as simple as over-confidence, egotism.

but i don't think their supply lines will be in all that much danger because i think they set-up the routes on the way toward the north with enough stations and posts to keep them protected. but, then again, there is a huge population of people in the middle east that don't want us there. they could easily rebuild the insurgency, especially if the manpower keeps flooding in from Iran and Syria.

Originally posted by 00PS
Of course you are white so you throw out there the 'reverse racism' arguement.

Once again you're making assumptions that are baseless and completely untrue. My skin color is pretty dark. I get confused with the Mexican Americans here in Texas, and I have to explain that I don't know two words of Spanish at least twice a month. I'm actually more Native American than anything. I don't quaify as a white European in any terms.

I don't know how you can pigeon hole the Germans as getting off easy. There was much more destruction in Germany from the war than in Japan. Sure the atomic bombs were dropped in Japan, but you're forgetting about the swarms of bombers that dropped bombs night after night on Germany. If Germany hadn't surrendered, I'm sure Berlin would have been nuked as well.

Also your argument is leaving out one crucial factor. Vietnam doesn't have vast supplies of oil. Iraq does. The U.S. has incentive to be there, and won't leave if a few insurgents blow up car bombs or take shots at troops that are deployed there. Why do you think that the U.S. isn't attacking N Korea right now, or intervening in Sudan. There's nothing in it for them. Iraq is a big bone and the U.S. is the biggest dog on the block. Don't expect them to let go of it so easily.


[edit on 9-12-2004 by dbates]

oops, just wants to argue... same way in other threads he's started.


Starts off talking about the US supply lines will be attacked and the US will lose in Iraq and then suddenly turns it to racism.

pointless....


so oops, which are we going to discuss here, the US supply lines in Iraq or Racism..

Just a correction if you will of some of your information

Originally posted by 00PS
We dropped an atom bomb on the Japs, why not the Germans? Where white europeans too important to drop bombs on them?

Originally posted by 00PS
One's that I guess you didn't have when you were in School because we had the bomb before Germany was destroyed...how's that one for ya slick?

Actually on this matter I would say Seekerof is correct, because the first Atomic bomb testing and the dawn of the Atomic age was at the Trinity test site in New mexico on 16th July of 1945, this was the soonest time that the bomb could be completed and operational.
However Germany surrendered on 7th May 1945, so the bomb could not be dropped on any targets in europe. However I will state that in my opinion the thousand bomber day/night raids that were conducted in places like Dresden and Cologne were far more gruesome and devestating.

Also about Japan, more people actually died from the intense incideary raids in Tokyo than from the bomb on Hiroshima. But the 'sudden' impact and structural devestation of atomic weaponary had a much greater affect on the Japanese moral.

Isnt history fun

Before you tell outhers about me why don't you look at my original post man, I think I state the question quite clearly, and instead of answering it you just go and tell people some hogwash. I never started talking about the US Supply lines, I started by asking the question will the US lose the wwar in Iraq BECAUSE OF RACIST WHITE POLICIES. So I guess I can say the Elevatedone just wants to AVOID the question...Way to go sport.

Originally posted by elevatedone
oops, just wants to argue... same way in other threads he's started.


Starts off talking about the US supply lines will be attacked and the US will lose in Iraq and then suddenly turns it to racism.

pointless....


so oops, which are we going to discuss here, the US supply lines in Iraq or Racism..

Why don't we discuss your inability to read page one of a thread before you comment on page 2.