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California Forces Churches to Directly Fund Abortions, Churches Refuse to Comply?

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posted on Oct, 22 2014 @ 04:58 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
So me refusing to pay for someone else's abortion is me somehow controlling what they do with their body?

Did I have anything to do with them getting their body pregnant in the first place?


You do know how insurance works right??? A large group of people all pay in a small amount of money. In turn when someone within that group needs care it's taken from that pool of money to pay for it. Nobody is directly paying for anything actually. Everyone, however, is indirectly paying for everything.

So indirectly, if you're part of the group, then yes, you pay for someones abortion, or their medicine or whatever, the same way they pay for your knee surgery or eye exam or whatever. That's just how it works.

So the same question goes back to you. Why should anyone have to pay for your surgery or medicine if they don't want to??? Why, because that is how it works.




posted on Oct, 22 2014 @ 05:01 PM
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a reply to: Hoosierdaddy71

That is fantastic, I had a massage therapist massage my jaw from inside my mouth, (very uncomfortable) but it help with the problem.

My regular doctors told me that even if I get a specialist, unless my jaw is completely unstable I should never let anybody do surgery because it can make things worst.

I had a CT scan of the entire jaw and it was not deterioration of the jaw bone.

So is just discomfort, but very painful at times.



posted on Oct, 22 2014 @ 05:02 PM
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a reply to: tothetenthpower

Hey thanks!!!

I agree, here in the US the religious right still have a very good hold when it comes to issues of abortion and anti conceptive.



posted on Oct, 22 2014 @ 05:18 PM
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It actually isn't the California DMHC that is doing this but California's Constitution. The California DMHC was correcting their own mistake that didn't make it clear by that by the California Constitution all health care plans must cover abortions as basic care.

Excerpt from letter sent to Aetna from California DMHC


Exclusions and limitations are also incompatible with both the California Reproductive Privacy Act and multiple California judicial decisions that have unambiguously established under the California Constitution.


They site article, section 1 of California's Constitution:


ARTICLE 1 DECLARATION OF RIGHTS


SECTION 1. All people are by nature free and independent and have
inalienable rights. Among these are enjoying and defending life and
liberty, acquiring, possessing, and protecting property, and pursuing
and obtaining safety, happiness, and privacy.


Note the word privacy.

And here's religious liberty, California style.


CALIFORNIA CONSTITUTION
ARTICLE 1 DECLARATION OF RIGHTS

SEC. 4. Free exercise and enjoyment of religion without
discrimination or preference are guaranteed. This liberty of
conscience does not excuse acts that are licentious or inconsistent
with the peace or safety of the State. The Legislature shall make no
law respecting an establishment of religion. A person is not incompetent to be a witness or juror because of
his or her opinions on religious beliefs.



Link

ETA: Here's the religious exemption. Scalia should take notes...


In upholding the law against a constitutional challenge from Catholic Charities in 2004, the state Supreme Court noted that the law's definition of a "religious employer" entitled to an exemption is specific. The employer must be a nonprofit entity whose purpose is the "inculcation of religious values," and which "primarily employs"and primarily serves persons who share its religious tenets.


LA Times

So no, churches are NOT being forced to pay for abortions as they clearly fall under the exemption. More dishonest claims about religious freedom being under attack.
edit on 10/22/2014 by Kali74 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 22 2014 @ 05:18 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko

Did I have anything to do with them getting their body pregnant in the first place?


Exactly. The "pro-choice" crowd always conveniently overlooks THAT choice. They choose to have unprotected sex, but they don't feel that they should be held accountable for their own actions when they get pregnant. A familiar theme among liberals.



posted on Oct, 22 2014 @ 05:19 PM
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a reply to: mOjOm

There are choices all around. I should not be forced to join a health insurance plan that pays for your abortion if I don't want to. Why can't I have the option to choose a plan that doesn't pay for any abortions. If you don't want to join my plan you don't have to. The same goes for people who want to work for Hobby Lobby but also want the abortion coverage they refuse to offer. They have a choice to work somewhere else. They have a choice to get other private insurance if they want it. Why is it that so many people think that the companies or churches need to change their rules to accommodate people who may want to work there. Nobody has a right to work at any particular company. Likewise, nobody has a right to tell a church that they have to change their deeply held religious beliefs just to make other people happy.



posted on Oct, 22 2014 @ 05:20 PM
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originally posted by: Hoosierdaddy71
So lemme get this straight.
Abortions are a basic health service, but my wife's jaw being out of alignment causing great pain is "cosmetic" and therefore a dental issue. Hence not covered by insurance.
Wtf!


This may be a bit off-topic, but exactly how did your wife's jaw become misaligned?




posted on Oct, 22 2014 @ 05:30 PM
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originally posted by: itguysrule
a reply to: mOjOm

There are choices all around. I should not be forced to join a health insurance plan that pays for your abortion if I don't want to. Why can't I have the option to choose a plan that doesn't pay for any abortions. If you don't want to join my plan you don't have to. The same goes for people who want to work for Hobby Lobby but also want the abortion coverage they refuse to offer. They have a choice to work somewhere else. They have a choice to get other private insurance if they want it. Why is it that so many people think that the companies or churches need to change their rules to accommodate people who may want to work there. Nobody has a right to work at any particular company. Likewise, nobody has a right to tell a church that they have to change their deeply held religious beliefs just to make other people happy.


I totally agree with you on this one.



posted on Oct, 22 2014 @ 05:30 PM
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a reply to: itguysrule

I agree that being forced to pay into insurance is bad. I don't agree with that. You should have the choice to Join The Insurance Plan, or Join Nothing. Being forced to have to pay whether or not you want to is BS. So if you want to fight that, I'll join ya. But if you're a member of the plan, then pay like everyone else and shut up about it. Nobody wants to pay for anyone else and their ailments either. So either Don't Pay and do what you want, or Pay and let the system do what it has to do.

What is not going to happen is everyone paying what they feel that they like or picking and choosing what they agree with.

You may have a deeply held belief that Abortion is wrong and don't want to pay. Well I have a deeply held belief that there is enough kids already and I don't want to pay for your Child Birth or their Vaccines. In fact I don't want to pay for anything health related for you at all. Believe me, It's deeply held too, I really don't. So why do I have to pay???

Because that is how it works. It's a money pool that is distributed, that's it. If you don't like it then come up with a new method and convince the world to use it.



posted on Oct, 22 2014 @ 05:33 PM
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If anyone is interested in reading something a little sensationalized, here's the Huffington Post article on the subject that came out last August.

Abortions Must Be Covered By Health Insurance Companies In California





SACRAMENTO, Calif. (AP) — Health insurance companies in California may not refuse to cover the cost of abortions, state insurance officials have ruled in a reversal of policy stemming from the decision by two Catholic universities to drop elective abortions from their employee health plans.

Although the federal Affordable Care Act does not compel employers to provide workers with health insurance that includes abortion coverage, the director of California's Department of Managed Health Care said in a letter to seven insurance companies on Friday that the state Constitution and a 1975 state law prohibits them from selling group plans that exclude the procedure. The law in question requires such plans to encompass all "medically necessary" care.




"Abortion is a basic health care service," department director Michelle Rouillard wrote in the letter. "All health plans must treat maternity services and legal abortion neutrally."



Jesuit-run Santa Clara University and Loyola Marymount University notified employees last fall that they planned to stop paying for elective abortions, but said faculty and staff members could pay for supplemental coverage that would be provided through a third party. The two schools said their insurers, Anthem Blue Cross and Kaiser Permanente, had cleared the move with the state.


They PLAN to STOP paying for abortions!




edit on 22-10-2014 by windword because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 22 2014 @ 05:34 PM
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a reply to: mOjOm

Then, in a free market, I should be free (that pesky word) to join a policy that does not cover abortion if it does not fall in line with my beliefs, and churches (and businesses owned and operated by those who do not believe in abortion) would do likewise. This is how it has historically been, and it has not been an issue until Obamacare when the same things had to be covered for all, by all.

In other words, we are being forced to go against our beliefs by people who think they know what's best for us.


edit on 22-10-2014 by ketsuko because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 22 2014 @ 05:37 PM
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a reply to: itguysrule

You forgot one: They also have the choice to pay for their abortion out of their pocket.



posted on Oct, 22 2014 @ 05:39 PM
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a reply to: mOjOm

And you keep missing the point that in a world with choice you would buy into your preferred plan with its pool, and we would buy into our preferred plan with its pool.

We would each be able to be happy that way.

However, the elites, in their infinite stupidity, have decided that we all must have the same plan, so here we are.



posted on Oct, 22 2014 @ 05:43 PM
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originally posted by: ScientiaFortisDefendit

originally posted by: Hoosierdaddy71
So lemme get this straight.
Abortions are a basic health service, but my wife's jaw being out of alignment causing great pain is "cosmetic" and therefore a dental issue. Hence not covered by insurance.
Wtf!


This may be a bit off-topic, but exactly how did your wife's jaw become misaligned?



It's called TMJ. It's pretty common.
Eventually if not treated it will grind the bone away at the joint and need surgery.



posted on Oct, 22 2014 @ 05:46 PM
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It is obviously a new thing, that (maybe) leftists weren't aware of.

That many (if not most) conservative christians are against abortion in any way or manner.

It's a new thing. Just recent, maybe 1 or 2 months old now.

So obviously, the leftists who made this law weren't aware of the religious people that might feel upset about all of this. Because if the leftists who made the law were aware that may christians are against abortion, they wouldn't have made it manditory.
They wouldn't disregard people like that.
They wouldn't ignore or insult people like that.



posted on Oct, 22 2014 @ 05:47 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko

Churches aren't, not in California... not anywhere in the US. The article is dishonest.



posted on Oct, 22 2014 @ 05:49 PM
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a reply to: beezzer

It's Leftists now huh? Pathetic. Anywho, churches are not being forced in California or anywhere else in the US to pay for abortions. The article is *gasp* *shock*... dishonest.



posted on Oct, 22 2014 @ 05:53 PM
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originally posted by: xuenchen
I don't quite understand this one or if it's even true.


So you don't know if it's true, but you post it anyway? Not surprised. It's not true. If you don't know if it's true, why don't you spend 10 minutes and do some RESEARCH!?!?!?


originally posted by: Kali74
So no, churches are NOT being forced to pay for abortions as they clearly fall under the exemption. More dishonest claims about religious freedom being under attack.


This is true. The OP is a lie.

Source


With minimal fanfare, California state officials have nixed an underhanded effort by two Catholic-affiliated universities and their insurers to deprive the universities' employees of insurance coverage for abortions.


Not churches.



posted on Oct, 22 2014 @ 05:54 PM
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a reply to: Kali74

But everyone else has to, correct?



posted on Oct, 22 2014 @ 05:58 PM
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originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: Kali74

But everyone else has to, correct?


Sounds like it. It's the state's right.




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