Royals unleash Homeland Security on Kansas City store selling bootleg panties

a reply to: Bishop2199

My problem isn't the copyright infringement or the cease and desist order.

My problem is that it was Homeland Security... not the FBI, not the cops.. for a local and civil matter. Homeland security is only supposed to be the coordinator of things which cross local and fbi lines that is of national concern for there to be good communication between all these types of departments. A local judge issuing a local cease order (local ball team verses a local manufacturer) for a copyright infringement case... is not a homeland security issue. It would be FBI at best, or even just the local cops since it was a local manufacturer AND team.

This is a civil case rather than criminal... and in my understanding not even really one that crosses state lines? But either way, FBI at most...but certainly not homeland security. This is setting a precedent in my understanding.

a reply to: OpinionatedB

That I can agree with. Homeland security should be dealing with things like, hmm, the logistics of possible Ebola outbreaks and leaving small time copyright infringement to local authorities or the KBI or MBI?

originally posted by: OpinionatedB
a reply to: Bishop2199

My problem isn't the copyright infringement or the cease and desist order.

That would be trademark, and honestly the Royals are, for all intents and purposes, obligated legally to take action against the printer under the Dilution laws.. the undies print looks EXTREMELY similar to the KC Royals trademarked logo.. so clear violation.. especially since they were profiting on it

But I agree.. this is definitely civil, not criminal so I don't see how DHS can be involved.. then again I have heard of FBI raids over copyright in the past.. (pirating movies and music) .. never over trademark though..

originally posted by: ketsuko
That's why teams fight so hard to protect their name and image, it's money, and for a small market team that doesn't even break even ... any little bit helps.

The redskins is a unique case ... and entirely unfair if you ask me..

But like I said in my other posts.. the KC Royals are obligated to defend their trademark .. I see people keep mentioning copyright but in this case it's trademark.. and under the Dilution laws, KC Royals either defends it or risks losing it.. well not really losing it.. they could still use it.. but it would eventually make the logo basically public domain if they don't defend it..

Here's the laws regarding dilution: www.law.cornell.edu...

a reply to: alienjuggalo

First of all, let me say that I can now sleep better at night knowing DHS is keeping me safe from bootleg panties. God forbid I pick up a girl at a bar and bring her home and she is wearing illegal underbritches. That would not be the best time for a no-knock raid.

Second, exactly HOW does DHS know there are bootleg panties out there? Did they do an undercover investigation?

And lastly, where do I apply for THAT job?

a reply to: miniatus

trademark is going to be the same basic grounds as copyright. But your correct I did misspeak; got my words mixed up... thanks for the correction there.

But yeah... FBI possibly, but all this can still be handled locally... since the team is local, the manufacturer is local, and even if this crossed into Federal juristiction, Kansas City also has its own federal courthouse and federal judges separate from local courthouses.

There is absolutely no need for DHS, the Department of Homeland Security... none... there was no need of coordinating at such a national level, it would have been nothing that the FBI could not or would not have handled alone - without DHS involvement.

In a civil, and local matter such as this, where all the players are local, no need for this civil issue to be handled as if it were a national security concern. Anything crossing state lines, is still in federal or FBI jurisdiction.

This sets a very dangerous precedent. IMHO. I don't like it, not at all. The only reason for it, is to say "Everything is our jurisdiction, everything..." and get everyone used to the idea.

originally posted by: OpinionatedB
a reply to: miniatus

trademark is going to be the same basic grounds as copyright. But your correct I did misspeak; got my words mixed up... thanks for the correction there.

But yeah... FBI possibly, but all this can still be handled locally... since the team is local, the manufacturer is local, and even if this crossed into Federal juristiction, Kansas City also has its own federal courthouse and federal judges separate from local courthouses.

There is absolutely no need for DHS, the Department of Homeland Security... none... there was no need of coordinating at such a national level, it would have been nothing that the FBI could not or would not have handled alone - without DHS involvement.

In a civil, and local matter such as this, where all the players are local, no need for this civil issue to be handled as if it were national security concern.

Not sure if you saw my post on page one .. I had a trademark fight with AOL over their ICQ trademark so I got to deal with it first hand.. and absolutely right.. this isn't a federal/criminal case so FBI/DHS should have absolutely no involvement.. police could unless it crossed jurisdiction I suppose..but since this is a civil matter, I don't believe they could even be involved.. however when I had my situation and finally had no legal leg to stand on, they were going to take me to arbitration because that's the only thing they could do.. I eventually just agreed to hand over my domain name and rename my software.

The normal process is to send out a cease and desist letter which you could choose to ignore.. ( I did ) ... but then you'll probably be contacted directly by a lawyer which I was.. law firm called Ardent Fox.. I still have the back and forth letters online somewhere.

I suppose the FBI could be necessary if this person was selling his goods over the Internet, then it might cross into a more regional issue, but the Royals are still small market enough that I have a hard time seeing this as a big time national in scope case.

I realize that Homeland Security being involved is just ridiculous, but let me tell you, it gets worse.

One of our salesman got busted for selling "bootleg" sports shirts. He quit, paid his fine, and thought that was it.
Boy, was he in for a shock, when him and our other salesman were driving to Canada. They had been stopped for a "Routine" check.
Guess who was on a watch list?

For bootleg shirts.

We still harass him to this day over it.

a reply to: ketsuko

Even national, it wouldn't effect "national security" which is the domain of DHS, the department of homeland security. They are ONLY supposed to be a coordinating player in issues of national security which cross over into more than one departmental juristiction so there is proper communication between all involved departments.

Trademark doesn't even begin to qualify for that... not even a little bit. The reason DHS was created was in case of another 9/11 type attack etc... not for local policing of small civil matters.

This is an attempt to bring everything, no matter how small or local, into the realm of big government. Going around local agencies whenever they feel like it. It's not good.

I was searching around for other sites talking about this... the shop wasn't raided apparently, but DHS did come and remove the merchandise .. no further action was taken, and the owner didn't seem too bothered by it..

The store’s co-owner says she thought their design was different enough from the trademarked KC.

“I didn’t see any Royals underwear,” she said. “Silly and scary at the same time.”

She says it was just a misunderstanding.

fox4kc.com...

I still don't see why this would be a DHS matter..

“They came in and there were two guys” Honig said. “I asked one of them what size he needed and he showed me a badge and took me outside. They told me they were from Homeland Security and we were violating copyright laws.”

Read more here: www.kansas.com...=cpy

So definitely not a raid.. just two agents who had a conversation with her and confiscated the product... the original article really blew it out of proportion.. still.. why dhs??

originally posted by: ketsuko
I suppose the FBI could be necessary if this person was selling his goods over the Internet, then it might cross into a more regional issue, but the Royals are still small market enough that I have a hard time seeing this as a big time national in scope case.

I guess DHS can be involved in trademark enforcement.. I found an article where DHS seized 70+ websites over trademark violations back in 2010 .. so their power is farther reaching than I figured... FBI shouldn't be allowed though, it's not a federal thing.. it's civil.. I just didn't think DHS was allowed to intervene in civil matters.

a reply to: miniatus

I had not seen your post on page 1, I started replying without reading every post. (Sorry for missing that!) but you are correct... this is a matter where they can only seek monetary injury, and a court order to cease and desist making the product. Making it civil... not criminal.

As you and I asked, and are asking... Why DHS? There is no jurisdiction for them, and no need, whether this crossed state lines or not, there is still no need for their involvement... especially just to serve the cease and desist court order, which is why DHS showed up at the manufacturers shop.

They were there to serve a local court order. WHY?

The Department of Homeland Security executed a cease-and-desist order and confiscated “Take the Crown” underwear Tuesday afternoon.

www.kshb.com...

Served papers, and confiscated evidence. Not the job of DHS in a civil matter where all players are local.

It is NOT right. Sounds like someone local pissed off DHS... and they are asserting themselves.

a reply to: OpinionatedB

Well there is precedent .. this is the case I mentioned above

mashable.com...

I think the trick is that now they treat it as counterfeiting .. which would explain DHS's involvement since that is a federal offense.

I could see how putting someone else's logo on a pair of undies could be considered counterfeiting

There are other places that sell KC Royal's underwear that seem official... ..so DHS actually makes sense now.

a reply to: miniatus

still FBI... not a place where DHS is needed to coordinate between local and federal over many states. And all they were ever supposed to do was to corrordinate the communications between all agencies... not serve court orders...

makes no sense.

If we accept this, we accept 1 national police force for each and every matter, local or national. That is no good.

I know personally, as I only recently moved away from Kansas City, that DHS has been putting their nose into everything, and they haven't been very well received by local law enforcement as a result.

This will turn into a big problem for all of us... if we don't do anything or say anything about it. I personally think we should be outraged. Local needs to coordinate nationally sometimes yes... but we need local. And local has a jurisdiction that should not be able to be crossed...

This is NOT national security! National security has no business in matters that are not a threat to said security! We have the FBI for their cause, We have local for theirs. DHS is not for any cause they wish on any given day!

This tends to support the notion that the US government is controlled by big business and wealth.

Doubt DHS would be out doing it to save mom and pop.

Maybe karma kicked in, they lost game 1.

a reply to: OpinionatedB

I know the FBI is also authorized to deal with counterfeiting .. but both the FBI and DHS have that power, so maybe it was a coin toss.. but the DHS was given that power back in 2009-2010 .. I really don't know why they chose DHS unless the local FBI field office was swamped and the DHS field office was available? it really could be something as mundane as that I guess..

a reply to: miniatus

lol... the local FBI feild offices are NEVER too swamped! It is one of the main FBI hubs in the country... more than enough officers for whatever they need officers for.

No... this was much more than that. And ALL the players in this were ALL local... and the matter civil... not criminal.. no... this was much more than omg the FBI was simply too busy today... so we will send some white house boys on it!

No... something is up. It's not good...if this was an FBI jurisdiction and they were too busy, something like this would have gone down a ladder not up it.

I told my husband, he says its not within DHS jurisdiction either, and he will add his two cents since I may have gotten a thing or two wrong...

The mystery of why DHS is involved has to do with where the items were made. Outside the counry. That makes it a Customs issue. As you all know DHS is simply an umbrella for many organisations that have a role in Home Land Security but also many other roles as well. Customs deals with with counterfit items that come into the country. The underwear were made overseas thus Customs, thus technically DHS.

a reply to: MrSpad

maybe or maybe not on who manufactured them.

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