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Hip-Hop is mis-understood & stero-typed...

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posted on Dec, 9 2004 @ 07:19 AM
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I have posted this thread because time & time again I have seen Hip-Hop being wrongfully mis-represented & hated against because of pre-conceived stereo-types and opinions.

The moment people hear Hip-Hop, they think rap and then swearing, violence etc. Rap is like this, but there is so much more to Hip-Hop its un-fathomable, and i would like to clear it up.

I dont listen to Celine Dion but I dont critisise it and shoot down either (much
all I wish to gain from this post is just to see where people stand on this subject...With me or against me, but my whole point is that if you dont get it, leave it.

Why must people dismiss what they dont understand?





posted on Dec, 9 2004 @ 07:44 AM
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I believe the reason for all this negative hype about hip-hop, rap and many other of our more modern spins on musical styles has its roots in the fact that a solid explination is missing for the ways the youth act today as opposed to "the good old days"

What was "the good old days?" I assure you that life came with just as many challenges and even more short-comings than it offers today....They hear teenagers walking around singing lyrics from the newest Snoop Dogg album and they think they're going to shoot up the school or smoke weed.....It's a return to the blame factor their generation's parents used when they were listening to Elvis....

I have a very ecclectic appreciation for music....from folk, to opera, to heavy metal and rap.....and I listen to each genre about the same amount of time and with the same attentive ear.....Do I think that Gustav Mahler's 3rd symphony is comparable to Usher's song Confessions? No...Mahler was far more talented at the level of WRITING music and Usher probably doesn't even know where a C is on the scale, but he certainly knows who his fan-base is today and can reach them better than a 200 year old score....

It's all about your personal tastes, and for younger kids, parental responsiblity - to assure that their kids listen to what they want, but to also make sure they understand what's being conveyed in the song....

But this problem has so many levels - For some people, it's seeing that kid rolling in his Escalade on 22s, thudding around the neighborhood with his 6 12s in the back.....That's a problem with the kid's parents - They don't know how tro teach respect to their kids....But they like their music - and that's only partially to blame for why he does it....

But some people only want to see what they want to see....And I think that's what really breaks your question down into a one-phrase response....



posted on Dec, 9 2004 @ 08:25 AM
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Great reply, that is true about the comparison to "the good old days" and establishing the change between the times and I like you listen to a wide range of genre. Ive had many arguments with my father over the difference between the music today and of the past and it only proves my case stronger that people will always remain in their ways.
I respect atrists that put time, effort and research into their product and that is what I meant by Hip-Hop being mis-understood and judged as if, if you listen to "that music" then your mind is corrupt.

My point is that on the radio you hear sooo much repitition and re-makes of the same old stuff...love etc. And "hit songs" actually, if you listen closely hardly make sense and they add words for how they sound and not meaning. Some songs actually physically irritate me because of how lame or "cheap" they are, and sometimes I wonder how they are even re-leased to the un-suspecting public.
But, I dont listen to that so I dont listen to that and I dont go around judging those who do.

Hip-Hop is so different. And rap is so different from Hip-Hop. And R&B from that...

All I aim to achieve is to establish the difference between Hip-Hop & Rap and to see if anyone else shares the same views or hold an opposite opinion confirming that Hip-Hop is non-sense, youth destoying noise.

Rap is for show and is all about what you have and who you can mess-up but there are varying degrees. Hip-Hop is poetic and usually carries a message and you can learn soo much from it.
I love showing people who hadnt heard much hip-hop previously some of my favourite songs and seeing there face change because they were hearing it for the first time.

And I guess this thread is going no-where so I just wish to say to those who hate & despise Hip-Hop...dont diss it what you dont get it.

Later*






[edit on 9-12-2004 by Zenem]



posted on Dec, 9 2004 @ 04:02 PM
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It pisses me off when folk just hate hiphop without really listening to it. Like Bill O'reily ever listened to Mos Def or Common. He prolly never listened to Eminem or Luda his favorite targets. I think its about stiring up fear and making money off that fear and he's made a butt load. Hiphop will survive though so its not really a big deal if it gets stereotyped. Like Diddy said during the election, we 43 million strong in the US and there aint no telling how many hiphop fans there are around the world. It won't be stopped. Its the voice of three generations.

That reminds me of end of Tupac Resurrection where they show all his fans from around the world. That's dope, folk from Iran and Turkey and Germany bumpin Pac, a lil ghetto kid, hiphop makes the world seem small.



posted on Dec, 10 2004 @ 07:07 AM
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Originally posted by Saphronia
It pisses me off when folk just hate hiphop without really listening to it. Like Bill O'reily ever listened to Mos Def or Common.


Exactly! People dont even know what theyre dissing. The lyrics from Artists like Big-L, Talib Kweli, Gangstarr, Mos def...(I could go on for hours) have such profound messages that make much sense on many different levels and they love flexing their intellectual might by throwing around metaphors and so-on.

And Hip-Hop will always have such a huge fan base fo-sheezy and in my opinion they rise well above the rest in the music industry.



posted on Dec, 12 2004 @ 02:15 AM
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Actually, the first thing I think of when I hear rap is a big huge load of BS...



posted on Dec, 12 2004 @ 11:40 AM
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Originally posted by Zenem
I have posted this thread because time & time again I have seen Hip-Hop being wrongfully mis-represented & hated against because of pre-conceived stereo-types and opinions.


Sadly, there are more than enough mainstream artist who are more than willing to perpetuate these stereotypes. To joe schmoe who doesn't listen to Hip-Hop, they provide an ample amount of bad image overshadowing the less known talent that doesn't glorify the bad stereotypes and actually has something intelligent to say.



posted on Dec, 13 2004 @ 12:01 PM
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Originally posted by Zenem
I have posted this thread because time & time again I have seen Hip-Hop being wrongfully mis-represented & hated against because of pre-conceived stereo-types and opinions.


Welcome to the club.
There's (really) no escapin' this (like the Beatnutz would say). See, even here, where ignorance is supposed to be denied, we already had one answer full of prejudice.

But I,ve stopped fighting for this. I'm ok with people thinking that hip hop is all the same crap and always the same thing, as long as people are ok with me thinking that all country music is the same thing, and just all as boring. They just don't know what they're missing, but fortunaly, you'll see that most people who totalli dismiss hip hop right away, without giving it an ear, are (mostly) all dying old folks lol.



posted on Dec, 13 2004 @ 12:12 PM
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There are many different types of music out there. All of which have ups and downs. Rap to Hip Hop though, isn't stereo typed any more than heavy metal to rock. There is a distinction though. I do not care what anyone has to say in defense of what I am about to say, because it is a real problem.

Hip Hop is much more mainstream than people think. Rock, alternative, metal, easy listening, freeking opera...all that stuff is less popular...well....maybe not less popular. Let me clear that up. Rap and hip hop are most popular among IMPRESIONABLE TEENS. You hear a lot of nonsense, about how rap and hip hop relate to the streets...and thats why its so popular amongst those people. That is not the case. The people emulate the music. The idolize the message. So do young teens...(especially young teenage girls wanting that thug). The thug role needs to be filled by young teenage boys. These people, along with those hardcore ghetto dwellers...emulate the music. They feed off of it. Hence, the problems in society feed off of it.

Now, if heavy metal and rock were as popular amongst teens as hip hop and rap, then heavy metal and rock would be just as big of a problem. the problem is, that its not.

Sorry for offending everyone.



posted on Dec, 13 2004 @ 12:15 PM
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I used to be a rap/hip-hop fan back in the 80's and early 90's. I think the current version of hip-hop is unoriginal and tired. Similar beats. Similar dancing. It seems like there's a new hip-hop star everyday. And I just can't say that about hip-hop. All popular music seems to be going down the same dead end road. When Britney Spears is at the top of the heap, you know you have a problem. Seems like now whenever a new band comes around and really rocks (i.e. Creed), the Music industry gets a hold of them and turns them stale. The messages that their music conveyed before they became big were edgy and deep, afterwards they turned into freakin' Hanson!!!!!! Sup wit dat??

Peace



posted on Dec, 13 2004 @ 12:16 PM
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Rap is different then Hip Hop!?! News to me. What is the difference?



posted on Dec, 13 2004 @ 02:10 PM
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Originally posted by Zenem
I have posted this thread because time & time again I have seen Hip-Hop being wrongfully mis-represented & hated against because of pre-conceived stereo-types and opinions.
...With me or against me, but my whole point is that if you dont get it, leave it.

Why must people dismiss what they dont understand?



i believe it is you, who may have underestimated some of us, in this regard.
David Lee Roth once commented on bands who are too heavily influenced by the work of previous artist.
"its an incestuous affair and we all know the only thing incest leads to, is retarded children"
when Chuck D and Public Enemy and Ice T(amongst a few others) pioneered hip-hop, it was a true "Art".
after listening to Fresh Prince, Tone-Loc and Run DMC going "blah blah blah" about "booty","gettin high" and "how great everything is", Chuck D came out and said "f**k that! my neighborhood s*cks,my friends are gettin shot and killed, the rest of them are gettin locked up and it aint gettin any better!"
THAT WAS ART !
what it has evolved into, (in my opinion) is a bunch of copy-cats, who couldnt come up with an original thought between them, if you held a gun to their head.
how many times are they going to rehash the same, tired, old 5h!t before the buying public says "enough is enough".-j; )



[edit on 13-12-2004 by Nine Inch Nails]



posted on Dec, 13 2004 @ 02:45 PM
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Jonna: Rap isn't different than hiphop. Hiphop is our culture and rap is a part of that. The four rocks (which is the foundation of hiphop culture) Rock the city, Rock ya body, Rock the mic, and Rock the turntables = hiphop. When folk say hiphop isn't rap most mean hiphop isn't just rap. Hiphop is a way of life from the way you talk to the way you dress--rap is just our music.



posted on Dec, 14 2004 @ 04:49 AM
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Originally posted by Seapeople
There are many different types of music out there. All of which have ups and downs. Rap to Hip Hop though, isn't stereo typed any more than heavy metal to rock. There is a distinction though. I do not care what anyone has to say in defense of what I am about to say, because it is a real problem.

Hip Hop is much more mainstream than people think. Rock, alternative, metal, easy listening, freeking opera...all that stuff is less popular...well....maybe not less popular. Let me clear that up. Rap and hip hop are most popular among IMPRESIONABLE TEENS. You hear a lot of nonsense, about how rap and hip hop relate to the streets...and thats why its so popular amongst those people. That is not the case. The people emulate the music.
Now, if heavy metal and rock were as popular amongst teens as hip hop and rap, then heavy metal and rock would be just as big of a problem. the problem is, that its not.


In every culture you get sheep...You get hip-hoppers, metal-heads, ravers, hippies etc. As long there is choice, there will be difference. I dont listen to metal but i dont diss the crap out of it. And when i hear it on the radio it seems a bit similar but I know to devout listeners there are major differences.
The same is for Hip-hop. Once you truly hear hip-hop and listen to the words and receive the message then its like you become en-lightened. You get introduced and shown a whole genre that you didnt see before.
When new people come around to my house and they dont listen to hip-hip I dont know where to begin to show hot examples of a true lyrical artform. (They leave with much learned.)

And, personally i like the way hip-hop has evolved. The beats artists and producers are coming up with are amazing and keep on updating. Beats do get used, ripped and re-used but so does everything. (I hate that J-lo remake "Jenny on the block" bought off the beatnuts originally)

Dont diss what your ears miss*



posted on Dec, 14 2004 @ 07:27 AM
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I don't think it's so much the music that is criticized but the image it portrays. The impressionable teens watch the videos and are so pre-occupied by the $120k Hummer, girls asses hanging out of their shorts, and enough silver around the "artists" neck to choke a horse, that the majority of the teens if questioned "what was that song about?" would come back with a blank stare.
I think a picture perfect example of this would be Nelly's new video na-nana-na. Cross reference the lyrics with the video. I know I would want my little 6 to 8 year old posing in a video (let alone my teenage daughter).

Snippit of lyrics.


Uhhhhhhhh, picture perfect, I paint a perfect picture
Third album, same focus, my intent is to get richer
I'm with my dirty Jazze Phizzle, he yieldin that instrumental
Youse a cold-a$$ nigga on the track (SHO' NUFF!)
Man - I'm tired of poppin these bottles, tired of fn'ing these models
I'm tired of these menage-a nights - yeah right (PSYCH!)
I was built for it, I got hip for it
I even got a little swagger in my limp for it
I done had, sex in the city plus sex in the country
You know - sex in the zoo di-rectly behind the monkeys
Hold up! Don't get me wrong, I'm lookin for Ms. Right
But tonight ain't the time, I'm lookin for right now
It's two-thousand-fo', I'm in a new home
Threw out the Bentley bought a Double R {?}
It's like I'm holdin on to permanent mistletoe, I think you been sittin low
I got a driver dirty, he come when the whistle blow


I know there are other "artists" out there who are not like Nelly or his kind but the glamor sells.

edit: went back to lyrics to make the censors not block out the profanity.


[edit on 14-12-2004 by rancid1]



posted on Dec, 14 2004 @ 10:27 AM
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Originally posted by rancid1
I don't think it's so much the music that is criticized but the image it portrays. The impressionable teens watch the videos and are so pre-occupied by the $120k Hummer, girls asses hanging out of their shorts, and enough silver around the "artists" neck to choke a horse, .

[edit on 14-12-2004 by rancid1]


True, but might I add...Nelly isnt Hip-Hop. I might also add that he copied the first line of the song inserted (na na na na) from 2pac. A true RAP legend.

I would just love to clarify...Rap is all bling bling, money aint a thing...like Snoop, Nelly, JD, 50-cent etc.
Hip-Hop is the guys you like never see on MTV. And I hate it when at the music awards they put Will Smith in the same category as rap, or worse hip-hop. (Dont know what to call his brand)

For example, do a search for lyrics for a true legend like Big-L or NAS or Gangstarr. In fact check out the lyrics for the track ebonics-Big L. It describes every ebonics word used in slang, in song. Its amazing, and thats an example of the thought and process that goes into making a song and its not all "
ive got my finger on the trigger" nonsense.
In fact, alot of lyrics for Hip-Hop actually look like poems and in-fact are to an extent. If i recall correctly, a rapper was awarded a pulitzer prize for his lyrical content. (I will attach the name once i confirm that it was the rapper I had in mind.)

And, also there is a stereo-type that Hip-hip is just for black people but that is another stereo-type that must be quelled and is being.



posted on Dec, 14 2004 @ 04:01 PM
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Nelly is hiphop. Hiphop isn't just one type of rap music--its all rap music. It's not just the conscious stuff or the positive stuff. Its like life. There is enough room for all of it. Sometimes hiphop is simply rockin' the party and sometimes its rockin' the system. I know a lot of folk now-a-days want to draw a line and say this is--this isn't but if you say things like Nelly isn't hiphop 'tis like sayin RunDMC isn't hiphop. They rap about the same subject matter as Nelly. All Rap is hiphop.

Of course some of the stuff is not suitable for children but that can be said about alot of things in this world. It doesn't mean that the music is totally corrupted or that an artist is totally corrupt because children shouldn't listen to it.

Besides, I member the first time I listened to "freaky tales" by Too $hort, oh my god, if you wanna post some nasty lyrics--check him out on Ohhhla! I wasn't supposed to be listening to that I was like 10 years old and I didn't even understand half the things he was saying. It didn't kill me or corrupt my lil mind. Its just music. Somethings stick others don't.





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