Attempted "No-Knock" Raid at My House

originally posted by: roadgravel
Maybe we are lucky and the police haven't figured out that with satellite views a person can basically see whats down every highway, gravel road and trail. You can even get address numbers (what google thinks anyway) for houses. Now I wonder if that might be part of the problem/

Possibly.

If you follow the GPS (the cartoonish "tom tom" talking variety, which I had never used until recently because I thought of it as "GPS for the map illiterate") or Google Earth directions, you will drive precisely into the side of a mountain if you turn where it tells you our road is. Sure enough, there is a road there, sort of... it's a very old, very overgrown, and much more elevated up the hillside road. If you turn where the maps say it is, you will drive directly into a mountain side, with the road about 150 feet higher up the mountainside - and too overgrown to see unless you are standing in the middle of it anyhow. There is one house on that road at the end of it, which has collapsed now from disuse.

Even odder, perhaps, is that this access road has only recently (last couple of years) been named by the county - who does not maintain it - and that name is the one which appears on the overgrown road to nowhere that shows on the maps.

I turn my GPS on just to listen to it complain that I went the wrong way when I'm coming home. I get a perverse kick out of a machine trying to get me to drive into a hillside when I'm looking at the proper road right in front of me over the hood ornament, and then getting indignant with me when I refuse to do so!

It is, apparently, a systematic error, and has gotten into all systems. I know my road GPS thinks there is a road there (my handheld orienteering unit doesn't know what a road is - it operates on coordinates), and Google Earth thinks there is a road there, and I believe Open Street map thinks there is a road there, and I downloaded the latest USGS topo maps of the area two weeks ago, and even THEY think there is a road there. That may well have added just a little spice to the confusion of the evening.

Technology is great, but it's not infallible, and probably should not be trusted over your own eyes!

a reply to: nenothtu

Having personally experienced a no knock raid twice, it is #ing terrifying to see people skulking around with weapons

The first time happened when I was about 10 or so. Across the street from where we were living was a known meth lab/crackhouse that always got raided atleast once a month. Well one night at about 2 in the morning, I get sort pulled out of sleep by loud footsteps downstairs. Thinking it was just someone who couldn't see in the dark, I start going back to sleep. Next thing I know there are 3 or 4 SWAT members yelling at me and my 12 year old brother to get up and put our hands on our head. After about 30 minutes of being handcuffed they let us go and the complaint my mom filed went nowhere.

The second time was right around the time that there was a huge epidemic of home invasions in my part of town and the house in back of us had just gotten broken into.
So, being the stupid little # that I was, I decided to arm up. I talked to someone who talked to someone who eventually got me a Remington 870. I was completely ready to use it if need be. SO when I heard loud noises and saw someone in my yard with what looked to be a handgun, I grabbed my shotgun and went downstairs and got the drop on him.
I yell to him "Hands on your hand and d-d-don't #ing move unless you want a hole in your ass!"
He #ing jumps a foot in the air and drops his weapon. Meanwhile I hear a weapon get racked about 3 feet to the left and someone yells out "POLICE DEPARTMENT DROP YOUR WEAPON"
So while being handcuffed and getting a knee stuffed in my back, I ask to see their warrant and why they were there. They tell me that they were hitting a suspected drug house. I tell them to look across the street at the people trying to move thier supplies out the window. They go over and bust them and come back and start giving me # about having a firearm while being underage, pointing it at an officer and blah blah blah. I tell them that the judge will throw the case out because I was too young to be charged and I'll get a nice check, while they get weeks of paperwork. An hour after being led into a squad car in handcuffs for the whole block to see, they let me go.

They aren't getting any warning next time

a reply to: mrpotatoe27

Should also mention that the town I was in was a "small town" and the cops weren't afraid to make you fall down the stairs at their one story jail. And at that time, I was a pretty well known face because I would get picked up for things I was said to have done, and then get released a bit later when my lawyer showed up.

I got no problem with law enforcement, lord knows I couldn't deal with all the people out there, but until I see some ID, they are no different than anyone else. And the law where I was said that I could have legally shot the guy in the yard for being armed and on my property, so don't think I won't do it next time

a reply to: mrpotatoe27

Since when do you have to be a certain age to own a firearm? I got my son his first gun when he was 7 or so years old!

Both my kids went through formal firearm training prior to turning 15!

I have never heard of an age requirement!

originally posted by: antar

You put alot work into this thread and the OP. I was really surprised to read some of the comments on the first page (all I have gotten to so far) and how people just cant relate to reality as it is.

It may be a matter of not wanting to see things that way - deconstruction of a preconceived world view can be traumatic.

Anyway, I did read every word and was spell bound by your and your families experience. Hope everyone is ok even cousin George.

We're all fine. I think OB realized the next day what nearly happened in a gut way, and was beside herself for a bit. Both she and my sister were looking over their shoulders for a couple days for boogey men, worrying that George might take umbrage to the situation and blame us - but I think George could pretty clearly see that we weren't having much more fun from the situation than he did, and realized at some level that we didn't bring it down.

George is cooling his heels in lockdown. the latest I heard, a little while ago, says that he may be facing 4 years now on what was, before the debacle, a suspended sentence. I surmise, from that, that the papers were probably for a parole/probation violation, but have no definitive statement on the matter, so it's still just speculation on my part.

Do you have dogs? What did they do during this, any waning from them at all?

Not at the time. You could say I was "between dogs", but the one here now isn't really mine, and in any event is just a vocal puppy. He wasn't here for the excitement, so my first clue was an errant flashlight beam sweeping through the top of the window - but that was enough, just barely. A dog would have helped, as it would probably have alerted me when the cars were lining up at the road, before the lawmen exited their vehicles and started getting into position.

Edit to say, Ok dog question answered, am going backwards and am at page 5 now... Great to see your wife jump in and help answer questions too, like on the porch with the acre of cops, lol, just cant get her to hesh up.

well, MY theory was that it's not a good idea to yell at armed men when you're trying to keep them calm enough not to shoot you, but apparently she operates off of a different set of rules than I do.

Seriously, it is an important thread with a hot discussion topic as we have that APB for the Prepper dude in the woods still evading the cops, for an instant I wondered if your experience could have been related.

Ok carry on!

I'm not familiar with that. Monday night was the first news cast I had watched in probably a year, and it wasn't mentioned then. Is it a local thing? I believe you are around 80 miles south of me as the crow flies, maybe a bit more (if I sneezed hard, the "equal and opposite reaction" might propel me into West By God Virginia), so I may not have heard about it up here, anyhow.

a reply to: nenothtu

I just keep wondering, what method of flying does GPS expect us to do exactly... to get to the house! lol

originally posted by: badgerprints

You should hear the story about how they delivered my divorce subpoena at 3 am with a backup squad of... I-don't-know-what-they-thought-they-were...they had more guns than an infantry platoon.

Seems my ex had ...elaborated... quite extensively, to the courts when asked for my location.

It happens more than you think. Maybe not as humorous though.

The more I think about it, the more I wonder if the caller to the police didn't perhaps "elaborate" on the story as well, hoping that they would just go ahead and take George out in the confrontation.

originally posted by: nenothtu

originally posted by: badgerprints

You should hear the story about how they delivered my divorce subpoena at 3 am with a backup squad of... I-don't-know-what-they-thought-they-were...they had more guns than an infantry platoon.

Seems my ex had ...elaborated... quite extensively, to the courts when asked for my location.

It happens more than you think. Maybe not as humorous though.

The more I think about it, the more I wonder if the caller to the police didn't perhaps "elaborate" on the story as well, hoping that they would just go ahead and take George out in the confrontation.

Yes,
The gentleman who had to serve the subpoena was quite nervous.
I had backed about 10 feet away from the open front door and invited him in where we had light to see and I could read the document and sign the paper saying I'd received it. He resisted at first but I told him I wasn't going out there with that bunch of trigger happy knuckleheads.

He was looking around like something was going to jump out at him. He was obviously experienced, I'd say ex-cop or maybe marshal acting as a constable in retirement. I was wearing boxers so it wasn't like I was hiding a weapon.
A asked if he was scared of something and he told me that he'd been told to expect violence and firearms.
I just laughed and signed the papers.
Told him to have a nice day.
He was happy but his rent-a-goon-squad looked a bit let down.

All it takes lately is a bit of elaboration to get a 30 man assault team and an optional drone strike on the target.

originally posted by: OpinionatedB
a reply to: mrpotatoe27

Since when do you have to be a certain age to own a firearm? I got my son his first gun when he was 7 or so years old!

Both my kids went through formal firearm training prior to turning 15!

I have never heard of an age requirement!

They've got age requirements now for "unsupervised" possession, and even way back when one had to be 18 to purchase a long arm and 21 to purchase a handgun. I had to put the first gun I bought myself in my dad's name on the federal forms, and I had already been to places marked "here there be dragons" on maps at the time. No requirements then for unsupervised possession, though, as far as I knew. I wandered all over these hills by myself toting that gun, and before that I'd wandered all over them carrying an old undocumented one as a teenager.

The times, they are a-changin'!

a reply to: nenothtu

It's very hard for me to keep my mouth shut if I have something to say... and believe me, if someone is pointing a gun at your head.. I have LOTS to say!

ok... i'll shut up now...

a reply to: nenothtu

name? forms?

my God you had a much different world than me... and my kids... we had no names, or forms. Want a gun, ya go buy one, want to use it, ask your mom or dad to help teach you... want a license to hunt? take a formal course unless you are under the age of 12 (or 14 cannot remember!)

no forms... except for the course... then you had to takes tests and all. Let the government know you can manage your gun without shooting your neighbor. But after you took that a kid could go hunting without parental supervision even.

a reply to: badgerprints

I was actually arrested on a trumped-up false charge of a violent assault a couple of years ago, and didn't have as many guns pointed at me as I did the other night! Two regularly-uniformed officers was all that it took, and I didn't give them a bit of trouble putting the cuffs on!

They were civilized about it, so I was, too.

originally posted by: OpinionatedB
a reply to: nenothtu

and believe me, if someone is pointing a gun at your head.. I have LOTS to say!

originally posted by: nenothtu
a reply to: badgerprints

I was actually arrested on a trumped-up false charge of a violent assault a couple of years ago, and didn't have as many guns pointed at me as I did the other night! Two regularly-uniformed officers was all that it took, and I didn't give them a bit of trouble putting the cuffs on!

They were civilized about it, so I was, too.

Law enforcement is like a box of chocolates.

It is a good thing you did not go to bed early that nite or were preoccupied with something else. You may want to thank george at some point because without his suspicion your alertness may not have been high enough that nite. Perhaps he would enjoy a pack of smokes.

a reply to: Catacomb

Wanna be hard ass is my opinion. His cousin is psychopathic and he lives in a bunker. I see pain for him and his whole entourage. Paranoia is a big destroya. I won't hold judgement as if the story is false because I've seen some weird #.

I hope you don't get mad at the people expressing their opinion and open fire on some innocent people. I've been in the military myself but I don't live in a bunker. Ask yourself why you do.

a reply to: nenothtu

No one is ever guilty.

originally posted by: OpinionatedB
a reply to: nenothtu

name? forms?

my God you had a much different world than me... and my kids... we had no names, or forms. Want a gun, ya go buy one, want to use it, ask your mom or dad to help teach you... want a license to hunt? take a formal course unless you are under the age of 12 (or 14 cannot remember!)

no forms... except for the course... then you had to takes tests and all. Let the government know you can manage your gun without shooting your neighbor. But after you took that a kid could go hunting without parental supervision even.

Well, we had guys you could buy from under the table, too, but if you wanted a brand-new retail sold firearm, there were federal forms to fill out, and have been since at least 1968, and maybe 1934 - I cant recall that far back, since I wasn't born yet. I know that in '68 the forms were in effect, however. See "Gun Control Act".

"D" took the courses when he was 15, as I recall, so that he could get a hunting license, but they were relatively easy for him, since I'd already hammered the basics into his head complete with practical demonstrations of what guns can do if handled improperly. Even then, by that time, he couldn't legally just go out hunting by himself in that state. Had to have a "responsible adult" along, per regulations.

It wasn't quite that strict when I was a kid, in a different state, as far as mere possession or hunting went. All I had to do was pay for a license - no supervision, no classes. The assumption was, back then, that a kid sharp enough to know how to aim a gun also knew that they went "BANG!" and made stuff come apart when they did, so he didn't want it pointing in the wrong direction, making the wrong stuff fly apart.

In other words, the assumption back then was that kids knew "gee" from "haw", which is not assumed any more.

a reply to: LOSTinAMERICA

lol... we don't live in a bunker either. Its a regular house with a basement like anyone elses. It's just built into the side of a mountain because mountain is what we got. I'm sure his grandfather would have built on a flat spot if there had been enough of them around here at the time that didn't flood every time it rained.

originally posted by: deadeyedick
It is a good thing you did not go to bed early that nite or were preoccupied with something else. You may want to thank george at some point because without his suspicion your alertness may not have been high enough that nite. Perhaps he would enjoy a pack of smokes.

I never go to bed early - I don't sleep well, or usually very long.

You do have a point about George setting the trigger for an alert, though... but alas, I don't think they allow smoking in jail any more. New rules.