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Attempted "No-Knock" Raid at My House

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posted on Oct, 23 2014 @ 07:49 AM
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originally posted by: Netties Hermit
Glad to hear you're both safe!
Phew! What a night!
I would have been rocking in the corner after that


I sat down on the porch and lit my pipe. Tried to do it in the shadows so's no one would notice my hands shaking, but wouldn't you know it - the missus noticed! She was polite enough not to mention it for several days, though...
!




posted on Oct, 23 2014 @ 08:01 AM
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originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: nenothtu
a reply to: Answer


Why would I do that - admit to something I didn't do - and then BE a liar?

You may think what you like, free country, and all that.

OR - you could come visit, and see how the other half lives.





Suit yourself. Some of us know what's really going on.

Which other half is that, exactly?


You so confidently declare this guy a liar.....
So what's his name?
How do you know him?
Do you live on the same street?
Were you there that night?
Are you a LEO in this area?


Thanks.



posted on Oct, 23 2014 @ 08:07 AM
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a reply to: nenothtu

Your writing pattern implies you are from the south. Is love for you to show me a southern state that allows no knock warrants...

Also, you have no idea if it was a no knock or not...



posted on Oct, 23 2014 @ 08:24 AM
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originally posted by: mortex

And to top that off, this "George" character and the OP are some very very serious, bad ass guys who've been involved in cutting peoples throats and other such activities. The police apparently "know" George. Yet George, who goes around cutting throats and committing other crimes, was free to run around the woods with guns and torches "hunting" the police in camo.



Let's just lay a wee bit of this speculation to rest, shall we?

Here is a scan of the news story of the original "throat cutting" incident, a year and a half ago, suitably redacted to protect the innocent, and shield the guilty from shame:



Yes, it happened, Obi Wan. George was out on an apparently suspended 4 year sentence for "Malicious Wounding", evidently broke the terms of his probation (surprise, surprise!), and is now back in the hoosegow following the incident described in the OP.




First post he claimed he went and got his rifle and loaded it, the police who've stormed the lower floor of his house have seen him armed with a rifle, and are sitting there yelling at him to put it down.



I thought I was very clear that no one "stormed" anything - they couldn't get in.




He then tells them they are in the wrong house and they calmly make their way over to another house. Yeh ok.
Because a platoon of armed police storming your house with an arrest warrant for someone, are just going to take YOUR word for it that you aren't the person they are looking for, they are just going to take your word for it that he isn't there but down the street. They are just going to walk back out and not do a search of the house. Yeeeeeeeep.



That is correct. They were fairly calm men, all things considered, and they were there after George, not just any old random guy they could manage to throw cuffs on. I guess you just ain't from around here, and so must not have a firm grasp on how things work here. How the hell are they going to search a house they can't get into, and search for what? They already knew I had a gun, and I had confirmed that for them, and that I didn't have it in my hand at the moment we were discussing matters. Search for what? What is it you think they thought might be here that they hadn't already seen, and which I hadn't already admitted to? Why would they keep fooling around with me, and let George make a clean getaway because they wasted their time continuing to give me a hard time?

THAT wouldn't have looked very good on the report form, now would it?

I find it amusing that several armed men, pretty serious men, took my word whereas various internet Siskel and Ebert types just can't quite get there. Maybe it's because those armed men were face to face with me, whereas the various critic types aren't?




And in between all that there's a nice little tough guy I'm a bad ass whose cut throats don't mess with me, dialogue that's about as believable as a high school kids movie project filmed over a weekend.



See above newspaper clipping. Glad I didn't go to YOUR high school - it sounds pretty intense. At mine, there would most certainly have been an ass-whoopin' following any such exchange. We always had the motto of "DO it FIRST - THEN brag about it". There weren't a lot of unfounded brags flying around.




The whole thing sounds like a movie or tv series drama plot.



Don't it, though? There is a reason for the saying that "truth is stranger than fiction". Study up on that, mmkay?




Apparently there are lessons later on in the second post for us all to take from this fictional event.



In order to "take a lesson", one must first be open to instruction. You apparently aren't - which is a frequent characteristic of those who already know it all - I've seen the same thing in many a teenager. Therefore, the lessons were obviously not for YOU, young Jedi.




Yeep, I believe this all happened.
Because bad ass gangsters who cut peoples throats and are involved in other criminal acts are regular posters on ATS and other Internet forums, not only that, but they also tell the whole world their criminal business.



You must not know me - what a surprise there! I'm not a "gangster", but I DO have a history of sorts, which several here are already familiar with. The "criminality" of that history is subject to interpretation, I suppose, but it's not generally considered "criminal" by most sane people.




How do I know this is bs? Besides the over dramatized and exaggerated plot and dialogue?
Because, as an Australian(and I'm sure other Australian's posting on ATS can say similar), you know a lot of people who are either involved in something or know someone who is. A friend of a friend etc. You don't know what they are inolved in exactly, as in what criminal acts they've committed or are involved in, but you know they are involved in criminal organizations. Such as biker gangs. Where I live, practically everyone you run into has some sort of connection, either directly to such a person or through other people.

And do you know how much they tell outsiders about what crimes they've committed? Not a god damn thing.
They don't talk about any of that with anyone outside of those circles and involvement.

Criminals do not talk about their criminal activity.

It's common sense and basic survival for them.



Baloney.

Everyone knows everyone's business around here, and all are up on the latest news through the clothesline grape vine. Furthermore, I've been around a lot of criminal types, via work and whatnot, and very damned few of them, if any, don't crow about their exploits.

All in all, you might make a pretty fair film critic - it seems to be where you get most of your information. Don't try that with the real world, though... it might cave in on you.




edit on 2014/10/23 by nenothtu because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 23 2014 @ 08:38 AM
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originally posted by: Baltazar84
a reply to: nenothtu

have there been any updates? any repercussions?


Not to me - that case is closed. It was closed with the apology that night. For George, the last I heard was that he's facing 4 years on what was a suspended sentence before this incident.



posted on Oct, 23 2014 @ 09:29 AM
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originally posted by: raymundoko
a reply to: nenothtu

Your writing pattern implies you are from the south. Is love for you to show me a southern state that allows no knock warrants...


Here you go - this took me all of 15 seconds to find:




Kathryn Johnston (1914–2006) was an elderly Atlanta, Georgia, woman shot by three undercover police officers in her home on November 21, 2006, after she fired one shot at the ceiling, assuming her home was being invaded. While the officers were wounded by friendly fire, none of the officers received life-threatening injuries, but Johnston was killed by their gunfire.[1]






Tracy Ingle was shot in his house five times during a no-knock raid in North Little Rock, Arkansas. After the police entered the house Tracy thought armed robbers had entered the house and intended to scare them away with a non-working gun. The police expected to find drugs, but none were found. He was brought to the intensive care, but police pulled him out of intensive care for questioning, after which they arrested him and charged him with assault on the officers who shot him.[6][7]



Source




Ryan David Frederick is a prisoner in Virginia. On February 4, 2009, he was sentenced to 10 years imprisonment following conviction for voluntary manslaughter for the January 17, 2008 shooting death of police officer Jarrod Shivers. The shooting occurred at Frederick's home in Chesapeake, Virginia during the execution of an no-knock warrant/exigent circumstances police raid serving a warrant to search for a marijuana grow operation.[1]



Source

There's more where those came from - as they say, "Google is your friend".


Also, you have no idea if it was a no knock or not...


True enough, and has already been addressed.



posted on Oct, 23 2014 @ 09:36 AM
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a reply to: nenothtu

I didn't remember mentioning it at all. As a matter of fact, I honestly figured I was the only one who noticed - and there was no point bringing shame to your head, since there was nothing to be ashamed of, hands shaking or not.

I was worse than that for the next 3 or so days... you got over the event fairly quickly, my adrenaline ran amok for days and days after!

And like I told you this morning, figured I would reiterate it here. I have been, since this happened, really given the cops all the credit for not killing you. But in that, I was remiss. Because all that happened that night, was decided in the first few seconds, and what you did in those seconds was speak with authority... like daddy did when I had pushed my luck just a bit too far.. that whole, "you listen here young lady" that a good father sounds like..

But it was the tone of voice that commanded respect, that others just instinctively know its time to "listen up", there was no fear, just a sound of authority. It's one I am personally used to so I never really gave it any thought... but perhaps because its a voice some of us are used to... those with either military experience or good dad's in general, that might have been a large portion of the reason they did stop, and they did listen.

You commanded their attention through that tone that many of us know well. And much credit goes to you for that.. YOUR actions in those first few seconds helped the situation as much as their actions. All in all, everyone there, did just the right thing...

YOU included. And I am proud of you for that... and sorry I didn't give you credit where it was due. I have just been terribly busy being grateful in general that you didn't get killed...


edit on 23-10-2014 by OpinionatedB because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 23 2014 @ 09:37 AM
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a reply to: nenothtu

Yah, I'm calling hoax on this one too. I know you don't care, this post is for others so they know.


I yelled "YOU REALLY DON'T WANT TO SEE THEM BEFORE I SEE A BADGE!" because my hands were full at the moment, you see. So I'm standing back in the shadows and watching, and a hand pops up over our car in the drive, holding a badge.

In the shadows, "at night"? In the dark at least one of them is utilizing night vision. And you weren't. How'd you see the "badge" or recognize it in the dark? You keep mentioning all the "gaggle of guys with guns outside in the yard" (apparently your wife sees them, too).

In the rural setting you describe where the "lights are off" as you describe, it is pitch black outside and your (or your wives) "nocturnal vision" or whatever hasn't had time to develop yet to see them or their guns let alone a "badge" popped over the top of your car in the driveway.

With all that fortress style security (tank proof?) why didn't you just flip on the exterior flood lighting to blind them and their night vision goggles and go about addressing them from the P.A. horn you also have installed from behind your door instead of exposing yourself to whomever is right outside that door?

Most security minded people that live rurally have exterior lighting around the house so they can see whats going on outside without opening their steel frame doors. Especially flood lights covering the driveway.

And you don't. You just open the door to "see in the dark".

Cool story, Bro.



posted on Oct, 23 2014 @ 09:51 AM
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originally posted by: intrptr

In the shadows, "at night"? In the dark at least one of them is utilizing night vision. And you weren't. How'd you see the "badge" or recognize it in the dark? You keep mentioning all the "gaggle of guys with guns outside in the yard" (apparently your wife sees them, too).

In the rural setting you describe where the "lights are off" as you describe, it is pitch black outside and your (or your wives) "nocturnal vision" or whatever hasn't had time to develop yet to see them or their guns let alone a "badge" popped over the top of your car in the driveway.



I was pretty sure I mentioned turning all the lights in the house off as I went through - did I not mention that? That action made it "dark" inside. I did not, however, mention turning the lights OUTSIDE off - because I didn't. They were in the light, I was not. Is that just too hard to follow?

I learned long ago that looking into the "dark" from the "light" hampers one's ability to see what is there in the dark, or just where in the dark it is. I determined, even way back then, that I would rather be the guy in the dark than the one in the light.




With all that fortress style security (tank proof?) why didn't you just flip on the exterior flood lighting to blind them and their night vision goggles and go about addressing them from the P.A. horn you also have installed from behind your door instead of exposing yourself to whomever is right outside that door?



See above - the outside lights were ALREADY on, so I didn't need to turn them on. P.A. horn? Are you implying that the deputies were hard of hearing or something? They were not.




Most security minded people that live rurally have exterior lighting around the house so they can see whats going on outside without opening their steel frame doors. Especially flood lights covering the driveway.



Why yes, yes we DO! Glad you figured that out! Some folks around here even have surveillance systems around their house - the guy two houses down has one, and my brother in law has one, too. I don't. Unnecessary expense in my book, but they obviously differ in that opinion. They're kinda cool, though. For example, my brother in law caught a bear on camera in his driveway last year. It laid to rest all the speculation that there weren't any bears around there.




And you don't. You just open the door to "see in the dark".



You must have misunderstood me - I apologize for not being clearer. I opened the door to shoot an intruder, not to "see in the dark". That would be why the deputies assumed I was a "shooter" - because I had full intention of being one within the next few seconds, and didn't want to shoot through a perfectly good door.

By the way - the upper door isn't a steel one as you assume, and which I didn't specify. Just wanted to clear that up before it got out of hand.





edit on 2014/10/23 by nenothtu because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 23 2014 @ 10:04 AM
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originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: nenothtu
a reply to: Answer

You seem to be of the opinion that I care if you believe it or not.

I don't.




Oh I don't care if you care.

Just pointing out that it's a work of fiction so the more gullible readers don't take it too seriously.


So it is your civic duty to help "the more gullible readers" out there?

What takes even more detestable characteristics in a person to just up and call a poster a liar without any evidence whatsoever, and no chance that you would care to know in the first place just shows it is YOU who have zero credibility or even a smidgeon of decency to understand the difference between a made up story and a false one.

Oh but you did that to save the day for the gullible readers? What a More Ron
edit on 23-10-2014 by NoCorruptionAllowed because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 23 2014 @ 10:29 AM
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a reply to: nenothtu


I was pretty sure I mentioned turning all the lights in the house off as I went through - did I not mention that? That action made it "dark" inside. I did not, however, mention turning the lights OUTSIDE off - because I didn't. They were in the light, I was not. Is that just too hard to follow?

You didn't mention exterior lights at all. Just your "night vision".

If the outside lights you didn't otherwise mention were on you'd have recognized the first cop when you peered out the window at him…


After the lights are out, I peep out the window, and lo and behold, I see a silhouette dodging around the corner of the downstairs (enclosed) porch and taking up a position at the corner, peeping along the front of the house.


"Opening the door" during an assault is the last thing you would have done, It lets the bad guys in. The idea of a bunker complex is to keep them out, not (derp) open the door. That is a necessary element to the story though, because after all, it turned out to be cops . So you had to open the door to make the tale work.

Opening the door before you knew who was out there (with unknown "silhouettes" of guys around the house) is stupid otherwise and defeats the whole purpose of that bunker house you live in to protect yourself from "bad guys".



posted on Oct, 23 2014 @ 10:33 AM
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a reply to: intrptr

why do people keep thinking we live in a bunker? So weird....
edit on 23-10-2014 by OpinionatedB because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 23 2014 @ 10:37 AM
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originally posted by: OpinionatedB
a reply to: intrptr

why do people keep thinking we live in a bunker? So weird….


Descriptions of the "fort" in the twin opening posts.



posted on Oct, 23 2014 @ 10:49 AM
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a reply to: intrptr

Okay... we live in a house. We also live in that house on a mountain, and the house itself is built into that same mountain side.

You must drive up a very steep hill in order to get to our house, as you are driving up a mountainside. This then means, that the first part of the house you see, and the first part of the house you have contact with, is the basement.

In order to get to the main floor of the house, you must park at basement level, and walk up more of that steep hill to get to the front door...

But the way the house is, most people think the basement door is the main door... when its not. Most people stop there, and do not continue to walk up more of the steep hill, in order to get to the actual ground level of the house itself.

We have a porch, that is above the basement level, on the main floor. No part of that porch touches the ground, it is all what appears to be second story even though its really only first story. (I personally never go into the basement, the stairs are too much for me) That porch is where my husband was... the door from the house that goes outside onto the porch is the door he and I both spoke of going out of... it overlooks where the main body of cops were... although until we went out that door, we had not seen all the cops!

The cops that night were all over the yard, but made the same mistake FED X and UPS makes, they thought the main entrance was the basement. And were planning on that door, as their main door...When my husband looked out the bedroom window, and the side window, he saw a man or two, but that was it, and only saw them in silhouette, because of the light and how it was and where they were standing. Until he went out onto the porch, he personally did not know they were cops.

He thought they were the crazy guy and some friends, until which time as he went out onto the porch.

What is your basement made out of? Concrete I hope...

Its a normal house... its just built into the side of a mountain.



posted on Oct, 23 2014 @ 11:00 AM
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originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: nenothtu

You didn't mention exterior lights at all. Just your "night vision".

If the outside lights you didn't otherwise mention were on you'd have recognized the first cop when you peered out the window at him…


After the lights are out, I peep out the window, and lo and behold, I see a silhouette dodging around the corner of the downstairs (enclosed) porch and taking up a position at the corner, peeping along the front of the house.




You seem to not have a firm grasp on how light and shadow works, or what "silhouette" means. I specified that I saw the first one, peering out a window, FROM THE BEDROOM, which is not the living room, where, you know, the DOOR that I opened is. That door doesn't go to anything even remotely resembling ground - it goes to a porch.




"Opening the door" during an assault is the last thing you would have done, It lets the bad guys in.



Not unless they can fly. What part of "second story" is escaping your grasp?

You run your defenses as you see fit, and I'll do the same with mine. For my part, I don't care to shoot through a perfectly good door. I did that once, and it was very bad for the door. Additionally, in my case, shooting through the door would have had no effect, other than ruining the door. Any projectiles would have sailed harmlessly overhead until impacting the hillside on the opposite side of the holler - an entire waste of ammunition.




The idea of a bunker complex is to keep them out, not (derp) open the door. That is a necessary element to the story though, because after all, it turned out to be cops . So you had to open the door to make the tale work.



That might be, for a bunker complex that was built with the intention of being a bunker complex. The idea of this one was to keep it standing on a hillside. Different concept. It wasn't built to keep anyone out, it was built so as not to take up the arable land in the bottom. That necessitates building on a hillside, which in turn necessitated the construction parameters.

Why do you have a phobia of opening doors? I didn't have to open the door to "identify cops", I had to open it to get to a position above the corner of the downstairs where I had already seen someone.

maybe if I draw you a map it would help?




Opening the door before you knew who was out there (with unknown "silhouettes" of guys around the house) is stupid otherwise and defeats the whole purpose of that bunker house you live in to protect yourself from "bad guys".


Like I said, you run your defenses as you see fit, and I'll run mine. You may have noticed that I wasn't shot, so it may not have been as "stupid" as you think.

I have a couple of questions for you:

1) Do you know why it's militarily axiomatic to "hold the high ground"?

2) Do you know why deer hunters build stand in trees?

Think on those questions, consider them, then get back to me on how "stupid" my actions were.



edit on 2014/10/23 by nenothtu because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 23 2014 @ 11:11 AM
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a reply to: intrptr

Perhaps this will help. This is NOT our house, but is built with the same concepts.



With the house in the picture, the green part is going to be the basement, and a large portion of that basement is exposed just like with this house. When you drive up to our house... just like with this house in the picture, you would automatically assume the front door is in the basement... but with our house, although we have a basement door there, the main level is what most people think would be the second level, and with our house the main door is to the side.

Our porch is just like the porch in this picture, it overlooks the basement entrance, which is a basement. Concrete. It is concrete because part of it is all the way inside the hill, on the other side of the house, none of it is exposed like you see in the front.

This is almost identical to the layout of our house.



posted on Oct, 23 2014 @ 11:21 AM
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If they missed counting a house to get to George's , they would be one house past Georges not one house before it. I have to go the fabricated story because of that


.a reply to: nenothtu



posted on Oct, 23 2014 @ 11:25 AM
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originally posted by: Sremmos80
Cops didn't shoot a guy with a gun in his hand, good to hear.


This fact alone makes me believe this is either a complete work of fiction or, a serious embellishment of the truth. Last time I checked guys in situations like this don't fair too well when toting a gun within close proximity of the police. There is NO talking, it's shoot first and mop up the PR mess later. To be honest the way these guys operate now, you're lucky to be alive.



posted on Oct, 23 2014 @ 11:32 AM
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originally posted by: damwel
If they missed counting a house to get to George's , they would be one house past Georges not one house before it. I have to go the fabricated story because of that


.a reply to: nenothtu



The directions they were given was "the second house from the last". The house they missed was on the other side of the house George was in, and was obscured by George's house. That was the house they missed, making my house, from their perspective, "the second house from the last", and the house George was actually in "the last".

To make matters worse, the guy in the (actual) "last" house had inexplicably turned off all his exterior lighting, obscuring the house even further.



posted on Oct, 23 2014 @ 11:37 AM
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a reply to: Nucleardoom

I didn't paint a bull's-eye on my chest, or stand there puffing my chest out and shouting "SHOOT HERE!". There are certain actions which are prudent to take when faced with the potential for being shot at, one of which is to immediately remove one's self from the line of fire - which is what I did by ducking back into the shadows of the living room.

Such actions may be why some soldiers get to come home from wars. They don't just stand there and wait to be shot.

Out of curiosity, how many of these sorts of situations have you been involved in, to be able to authoritatively state:




There is NO talking, it's shoot first and mop up the PR mess later.



?







edit on 2014/10/23 by nenothtu because: (no reason given)







 
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