3 Scientology goons ambush former 2nd in command, they be nuts y´all.

A shame that a country like the US is so "politically correct" and so obsessed with religious freedom that even a semi-criminal organization like Scientology can EVEN EXIST.

Other countries banned this cult already. The US should too.

a reply to: windword

Funny I was AUDITED from them ON MAUI because I didn't know what they were.I walked out when they asked out our family income.I received letters for about 8 years after that as well. So while they may not have an ESTABLISHED presence, they were there in 78.

a reply to: Aleister

Yeah! "Self Analyses" was a good book. There were a few.

Which books did they rework, or reedit?

Sounds like all of them. It would be interesting to compare a new book to a vintage book! I bet they're worth a fortune in some circles!

It was likewise in the name of a new Golden Age of Knowledge that Mr. Miscavige oversaw and directed the restoration of all basic L. Ron Hubbard books and lectures—universally known throughout Scientology as "The Basics" for the fact they represent the very foundation of the religion itself.

www.freedommag.org...

They still continue to hound me. I keep blocking their number(s). I keep throwing their mail in the trash.

ETA: The $2500, membership fee they wanted was for the new Golden Era International Church. All members, new and old had to fork it out to continue with Scientology services.

a reply to: cavtrooper7

The Nagasakis, of the old Nagasaki Market in Wailuku, were OT (Operating Thetan), old school Scientologists. They were very influential, but conservative Japanese. They hosted a few Sea Org PR "Communication" and "TR" courses, as well some "FLAG" members. When I met Gail Nagasaki, while doing a Film Festival Fundraiser, she indicated that she already knew all about me and my Scientology history!!!!!!!

But, they never harassed me or bothered me at all, that I know of!

a reply to: windword

Ah, just noticed, the manuscripts were changed either in the '70s or after. Interesting. The only book I know for sure was reissued in a correct version is "History of Man". That'd be my doin', and wondering if I've spawned a whole industry without knowing it (they really should have given you a copy of the new edition if they were going to take your old ones away, that's just the fair thing to do).

Here's how that happened. I had access to all the old books during the '70s, which were then the official texts. What nobody had ever noticed, Ron Hubbard or anyone, was that the book that became 'History of Man' which was first called 'What To Audit' (my teacher had a copy or two of that one too, from his early days) had lots of mistakes in it. For some reason, and I can't recall why, I began to compare his copy of'What To Audit' with the current 'History of Man', and darn if there weren't so many differences which had been made when somebody, who knows who, retyped the manuscript. Missed entire lines (not many, but enough to really change the meaning). Lots of people had goofed up for a long time, no one had ever noticed it, and I typed up a two page letter telling Scientology what I'd found and pointing out the differences. If I recall a couple of the footnotes had been mistyped as well.

I'm assuming that someone from the upper tippity top of the Scientology pyramid (and I mean you, Tom Cruise) will eventually read this thread, so just a suggestion or three. If I recall correctly, and my knowledge is limited by being well outside the organization (and from the looks of those videos, the first I've seen of Scientology in a long time, man, you guys need to cool it), Hubbard said that the time a new religion needs to survive to establish itself permanently was 50 years. That new religions always have major organized and meme-creating societal attacks on it, with all that goes with that nonsense. It's been pretty gruesome, on both sides. You guys have lost the public perception battle (just look at the posts on this thread, these guys really despise you, and by you I mean, of course, Tom Cruise). But the organization has lasted long enough now in what you call the MEST universe, and in Hubbard's religion-established formula, to stick around. Correct, or am I pulling that out of a hat (although I distinctly recall reading that somewhere in the Hubbard material)?

If I do recall it correctly, 50 years would have been up around 2005, give or take a few years and a Super Bowl or two. Well, the calendar has moved well past that now. That was the period that the organization had to defend itself with things including intimidation tactics, the "strong offense is the best defense" sport philosophy, maybe with a dash of 'The Art of War' thrown in with the bathwater. But Hubbard, I don't think, would have wanted it to last forever. And if he saw those videos, in what, 2014?, do you think, Tom, that he'd approve? Hell no! You guys haven't got to love and nonviolence yet? Where you love your enemies, and do good to those who....etc., the Sermon on the Mount?, you haven't got to that data yet?

I think I've earned a rant about you guys (maybe we'll make a movie sometime Tom), if what I think may have happened happened (What, did someone take my suggestion and look at the old manuscripts and find out that whoever - lol, just thought of this - whoever Hubbard had typesetting them as books missed words and entire lines and other things in all or many of them? No wonder you had to go around collecting everyone's book, because they weren't the 'canon', 'History of Man' sure wasn't, and Hubbard's exact words are important to you, yes? Like the 50 year thing I mentioned, I think that is close to his exact words), and then after seeing those videos. Enough already. Embrace total nonviolence, answer each and every question, start putting 'Self Analysis' in the hands of anyone who would like to play with it at the lowest possible price, make amends left and right, apologize, and maybe explain that Hubbard pretty much ordered that fifty-year defensive shield, that it was important to maintain it, but now maybe it's time to stand-down. Take a few lumps, turn the other cheek, change some policies, take some more lumps (man, look at the comments in this thread, this is what people think of you, and by you I mean...), Yes, the forces aligned against Scientology did, and will continue to do, some very horrible things. But Scientology is now an established religion, per Hubbard's formula, no matter what they throw at you. So a common sense suggestion: stand down. Declare peace.

Nonviolent Scientology. Try it, you'll like it.




EDIT: I had written this and hadn't seen your newest posts before putting it up. So it was possibly all of them, all the books. All probably due to a poor typist. They didn't have computers in those days, and had to use typesetters or something harder to operate, so somewhere along the line (either someone typing the material or typesetting it) somebody had a habit of every so often skipping over entire lines while retyping the original material and manuscripts (it didn't happen a lot in 'History of Man', but a couple of times if I recall, but enough to throw off the meanings of a sentence or two) while typing.

a reply to: Aleister

The only book I know for sure was reissued in a correct version is "History of Man". That'd be my doin', and wondering if I've spawned a whole industry without knowing it (they really should have given you a copy of the new edition if they were going to take your old ones away, that's just the fair thing to do).

Well, it would have only been a matter of time. Scientology is a little "word crazy". Before reading any material in Scientology, one must first get checked out on every single word in the book, know its definition, use it a sentence and demonstrate its meaning in clay. Then, one gets checked out for every chapter's information in a similar manner. So if a sentence in the material was out of place, or consistently caused confusion in coursework, I can see how changes were inevitable.

I didnt want to post too much in this thread though some responses were really tempting for their well thought out ideas and opinions. I like the fact that both sides seem to come out and say their peace, peacefully.

I myself find certain Ideas of Scientology to be sound. I have to say its not all lies, even if the source can be said to be questionable. I think of it like Jehovah´s witnesses. On a whole I may disagree with the direction, but on certain issues and ideas I am in agreement with them 1000%. The same happens with Scientology. What I think is cool about Scientology philosophically is that it takes people of all faiths. I am not sure how well that holds up in practice, but conceptually its where I stand on religion. Its all valid if it brings you closer to the source.

The practices of the church are by and far not in question. Its the tactics. Its obvious that this sort of thing is not only borderline illegal or outright so but very much morally reprehensible. I dont look at the flaws of the founder as a human. We all have those. I look at the tactics and real world effect. I can support Mormons in many cases since the practice and street level effect is good. Is it all based on a lie, or a charlatan founder? I dont know, maybe. I am not even concerned with that since I am not a member. If I was that would come into question for me, I hope.

The end result of Scientology is not positive though. It is a with me or against me philosophy. Personally I would like to see horrible things happen to everyone thinking like that. Its like ISIS or something equally dangerous and horrible.

So I am not against Scientology as a religion. To me its just as valid as any other faith. I just wanted to say that.
If it were not so borderline bat isht crazy in practice I would even volunteer for an auditing just to see whats up. I wont since I know its leadership has gone the way of destructive human nature. I cant in good faith even walk into their centers since I would only be "spying" as they see it. And I would. Its not like I would trust people in honesty one moment and then once I walk out the door I would remember I dont trust them.

Its a shame too because I could see myself at least sharing some spirituality with them and maybe finding a mutually beneficial relationship. I do agree on lots of stuff they believe, just not in the way the see that should be translated to the street level apparently.

I was not too familiar with break away groups or other groups who use their methods or practices in one way or another. Thats a positive effect of this thread so I am happy about that too. If I ever met one of these groups I would happily be audited to see whats up. I already self audit apparently and have been since I was a kid. LOL. Maybe we could share some source...

Have a good one guys.

Hold it down.

a reply to: windword

Maybe, maybe not. As I recall the mistakes I found in 'History of Man' weren't too much out of context - just not the context from the original 'What To Audit'. An entire typed-line in 'What To Audit' would be missed, but the line above it and the line below it would make sense fitted together. The same with the other mistakes I found as I recall. And as I told Windword in a u2u, I probably haven't thought of that self-imposed-project in over 15 years (centuries have rolled over since), so thank you for the topic. And I do recall recommending in my letter to the Publications Department (I think that's where I sent it) that the other books be checked out the same way....so I am wondering if it was likely I was 'cause' of the overall re-publication project (patting self on back with a clay hand...)

...that clay thing interested me when I head of it years ago. The teacher I had didn't use clay (nor an e-meter, although of our associates made one and we played with it one evening), and so I've never done that - but I can see, or imagine, the benefits (wondering if the creator of Mr. Bill was a Scientologist... )

IMO any entity that purposely hides knowledge, uses intimidation tactics , and dictatorship governance is a scam. Scientology like many other religions meet those criteria.

Scientology charges for its so called knowledge and is more worried about the monetary losses than actually spreading their message.

Any organization that goes to the extreme that Scientology has gone to harrass ex-members , shows that they have nothing to offer and its only worth is its member$ themselve$.

Any organization that requires you to spill your most intimite beans in front of a camara and recorder which keeps the files to themselves is not a worthy organization to confine in.

The internet has not been good to Scientology, nothing worse than having educated targets.

Sorry for the youtube quality, but it seems most of these episodes are banned from youtube now. Kind of telling in its self.

Well they seem like a charming buch, don't they?