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Who is the Son of God - True Theology - Precise Presuppositions Require Rogor

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posted on Oct, 22 2014 @ 09:18 AM
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originally posted by: AlephBet
a reply to: MamaJ

This is something I have considered as well. If you take it one step further, what if each of us is Him only. He experiences the full gamete so to speak. Like a body having 50 trillion cells, the cells do not live past seven years. Maybe we are the cells of his body. 1 Corinthians 10 seems to suggest this.

I don't think this is the case. If you simply trace it back, then all the sons of God are cells of his body. Once you get back to God, what's the point? God makes it clear that the point is fellowship and for Him to be all in all. The all never ends.



If each of us is in him and he in us then it does make sense IF we are the fallen. When I say we, I mean Him too.

We possibly could be "the cells". We are connected like an umbilical chord connects to a baby and her mother and the sun to the earth.

Once you get back to God, you have risen to the light, a Christ consciousnesses if you will. We are then redeemed, a soul evolved. His image (Jesus) has taught us this as he rose from a fallen one in the garden to Christ throughout his many incarnations.

In this scenario, Jesus is the son of man... he is not God... only an image of the creator. A type of spirit with an evolving soul.




posted on Oct, 22 2014 @ 02:19 PM
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originally posted by: AlephBet

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: AlephBet


Unless Yahweh is Satan...


Bingo!

Fortunately I don't believe "satan" exists... Its nothing more then the materialistic human...

Or "the beast" as you've said in your older threads...

Though IF there is an "evil incarnate"... Yahweh wins the title, to be certain



This is a point that you might consider. God saved Paul, a persecute of Christians. He selected Paul as this messenger of Grace to the Gentiles specifically because of his past. If Yahweh is the Son of God, then we can say the same about His past in relation to His salvation. Viewing this, then we each have quite the opportunity for salvation by comparison.


Indeed... that is a good point

Though you see, I have another way of looking at the situation with Paul...

For one thing, who is to say that God did in fact save Paul... Just because one claims to be saved does not necessarily mean God agrees... I don't believe "hell" exists in the Christian sense... no lake of fire or anything of the sort that involves pain and anguish... That's nothing more then a fear tactic that's been used for millennia... I fully believe the whole idea is a lie

Thus... IF Paul wasn't saved he was returned to pay his debt... Perhaps that is one of the reasons he speaks of a sin debt so often in his writing... because he had a debt that he could not pay in this life so he used the name of Jesus to promote his idea that we all have this debt and Jesus paid it... Of course this is nothing Jesus actually said... it was a fabrication of Paul and his own issues with his past.

Also I understand what you're getting at with this whole Jesus is Yahweh thing... and I still do not agree with the idea, but to each their own... we will all find out one day... but in the mean time its always up for discussion and debate

I am more of the opinion that this Yahweh character IS the ruler of this world, but is NOT God, and most definitely not the Father Jesus spoke of... After a few thousand years of his nonsense God sent his son to give the real rules, the ones that have always been and have never changed... Yahweh and his minions had Jesus executed in an attempt destroy and or cover up these rules he brought, but Jesus came back to reinforce the fact that the death of the body is not the end of life for us...

Paul still had his purpose though... to lead people astray with his writing which holds a bit of truth covered in a veil of deceit... Most of the Christian world follow Paul's words... Not Jesus, even though that is their claim...

Paul says all you need is Faith and you will be saved, where as Jesus said you must show your faith by work, and deeds which glorify the Father...

This is why Jesus said many are called but few are chosen... the Path is narrow and few find it...

Most will follow Paul because his way is easy... it requires no work... just blind faith...

Jesus required work...

and reinforced that idea by telling his followers... "Why call me lord and not do as I tell you?"




posted on Oct, 22 2014 @ 03:24 PM
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a reply to: Rustami

Jesus is not a name of Egyptian origion but of Aramaic name.

Yeshua means Salvation, and he was named Yeshua since he would be the salvation of his people. In Greek, the name was written as Iesous (since it is masculine for a man's name to end in -s in Greek), then eventually Iesus in Latin and then Jesus when the letter "J" was invented.

Jesus doesn't mean anything in Aramaic. YESHUA (not "Jesus") is The Word that means salvation.
edit on 22-10-2014 by arpgme because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 22 2014 @ 06:42 PM
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a reply to: Abednego



I have to agree with Sahabi, this is one of the easiest threads you have done. But still has some flaws, basically you are blaming the Son (YHVH) for the fall of Man. And that He came to Earth in human form as Jesus to redeem himself. Your error is in trying to established that GOD made a mistake (I think you are the one mistaken) in the creation. Your second error is trying to convinced people that what you are saying is the truth and nothing else.


We can't know if it was a plan or if it was an act of rebellion. I would assume rebellion since this is the pattern for a young child. If Yahweh was indeed the firstborn Son, then the pattern of most firstborn sons fits the bill. Since this is all symbolic of what it really represents, the raising of a family is the key metaphor. When Yahweh proclaims Himself to be the ONLY God, we see Jesus pointing straight back to the Father and Holy Spirit. If we want to get technical, I suppose Yahweh could proclaim this about his work to create the universe, but we're not sure this was the account of the entire universe, or simply this heaven and earth locally. It isn't specific. It says he planted the garden, but nothing of creating the seeds. That was the work of Elohim.

For my own determination, I go back to the Virgin of the World document. The Virgin of the World document seems to be the one that matches the back story to the Bible: Kore Kosmou

Of all the things I have read, the Hermetic documents (like the Corpus Hermeticum) seem to be the best defining documents to use for Biblical symbolism. You must remember that Moses was deep into the Egyptian Hermetics. He would have know these stories.



posted on Oct, 22 2014 @ 06:49 PM
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a reply to: MamaJ

Exactally, and when he says, "I and the Father are one," it could mean any number of things. If he meant the Father of mankind (Adam), then he was referring to us as his body. If he was referring to Elohim, then he could have meant that he was finally one with the Father. It doesn't need to imply that they are the same entity. We simply don't know what a God is really. Where is the definition? What are the details? The Hermetic documents say that the Son is the entire Cosmos. To me, that makes more sense. As humans, we are a copy from the template in every way, just not as large. The Spirit aspect of this is the form things take in matter (Water). That's the Mother, or womb of the Son. The Father represents the letters, or units programming the Word that drives the ALL (Gnostic terminology). That makes us all three aspects in one, just as God is all three in one. It's like a mirror. This goes back to the orghogonal nature of dimensions, both spacial and temporal. Heaven is up the dimensions where consciousness actually resides.



posted on Oct, 22 2014 @ 06:56 PM
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a reply to: Akragon



I am more of the opinion that this Yahweh character IS the ruler of this world, but is NOT God, and most definitely not the Father Jesus spoke of... After a few thousand years of his nonsense God sent his son to give the real rules, the ones that have always been and have never changed... Yahweh and his minions had Jesus executed in an attempt destroy and or cover up these rules he brought, but Jesus came back to reinforce the fact that the death of the body is not the end of life for us...


The way I look at this view you have above is to consider Isaiah 53. Read it from the Names of God Bible, then realize who is saying what about whom. Yahweh likely never knew it would be Him incarnated into his Right Arm (Jesus). I think this came as a surprise to him. Then, for Jesus to be fully man, he would have been under a veil of inconscience. Imagine the realization later, after the resurrection, that you were the Yahweh of the Jews. I think we will all have such a realization when we are consummated with our groom above. Who is to be master? That's Humpty Dumpty's reply to Alice when discussing words as men. Read this thread again: Humpty Dumpty

The clues are strung out all over creation. Every movie, every myth, story, drama, play and so on. It is endlessly repeated until we learn to see the elements in all of it. I assume our education begins after we pass this place by. I always call this life a reflecting point for the next level of existence. Like you say, we'll know later when it is revealed.



posted on Oct, 22 2014 @ 06:59 PM
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originally posted by: arpgme
a reply to: Rustami

Jesus is not a name of Egyptian origion but of Aramaic name.

Yeshua means Salvation, and he was named Yeshua since he would be the salvation of his people. In Greek, the name was written as Iesous (since it is masculine for a man's name to end in -s in Greek), then eventually Iesus in Latin and then Jesus when the letter "J" was invented.

Jesus doesn't mean anything in Aramaic. YESHUA (not "Jesus") is The Word that means salvation.


In the song, "All he wants for Christmas is his two front teeth," the SHIN is the letter added to his name.



When it says, "Sister Sally (NUN) sitting on a thistle," it refers to the thorn tree and the seed.



The song was inspired and you have the right name.



posted on Oct, 22 2014 @ 07:54 PM
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a reply to: arpgme

I should have also added the spelling - Yod-Hey-Shin-Vav-Ayin.

Use the mystical definitions of the Hebrew letters to read why he wants a shin for Christmas.
LETTERS

Consider the thistle bound to the seed and the flame bound to the coal.
edit on 22-10-2014 by AlephBet because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 22 2014 @ 11:02 PM
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a reply to: arpgme

Incorrect, the name Jesus (pronounced as the spelling sounds) is directly from heaven, is eternal and the source is from the risen One Himself and the scriptures accurately testify to that fact. It's false for anyone to claim the letter j sound is a modern invention, the letter form was created for an existing sound associated with the letter I. The shape of the letter J was derived from the Egyptian cobra which stood for the soft g or j sound. The arguments against the name of Jesus have no weight or validity.



John 20 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.


"EHJEH ASHER EHJEH". (Pronouned I-Je Asher I-Je)


Jesus is a compound name derived from "Jeh" a contraction of Ehjeh (Exodus 3:14: I AM) joined with "yesha" the Hebrew word salvation (Jeh-yesha); shortened to Jehsha(s) adding the "s" for syntax. Hence Jehsha(s) is transliterated Jesus.




When the letter "I" was followed by a consonant it retained the "I" sounding. This is the rule the KJV translators used in translating Hebrew words and names. It is absolutely a fraud to give the "I" a "Y" sound when a vowel follows the letter "I". Scholars who have done this should acknowledge their error and correct it.


edit on 22-10-2014 by Rustami because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 23 2014 @ 10:57 AM
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a reply to: visitedbythem


Surrender is the key. He wants us to trust him, and obey when he speaks. Do it and get the joy. He offers a special euphoria intermingled with a type of sensitive pain.


and on what page in the mind control manual can those instructions be found?



posted on Oct, 23 2014 @ 11:01 AM
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originally posted by: Grimpachi
a reply to: rockpaperhammock

I believe this is the quote you are thinking about.





No. It's “If you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't understand it yourself.”

but my personal favorite...



should feel familiar. particularly to the op.
edit on 23-10-2014 by TzarChasm because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 23 2014 @ 11:06 AM
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a reply to: Abednego


Your error is in trying to established that GOD made a mistake (I think you are the one mistaken) in the creation.


I think peoples mistake in general is in insisting that a "perfect" person is the only one worth looking up to. but I guess that's a fringe opinion...


First of all, God does not make mistakes, unless we are talking about an imperfect god.


tell that to six million jews. or did they deserve to die for not believing in jesus as the messiah?


"A god cannot be imperfect, because it will lose any divinity, a god is perfect even if his decisions look bad. Remember that anything that god do has a purpose. So he cannot be wrong, even if it looks like it. Even him understand this. So accepting he was wrong is accepting he is not god".


that sounds like a dangerous philosophy to adopt concerning ANY leader. at that point, you are literally surrendering your right to stand up for yourself. any philosophy that encourages this is...questionable, at the VERY least. it is the equivalent of Obama asking that all americans surrender their firearms on the basis that he can be trusted to do exactly whats right at any given moment. but if Obama stood by and watched 6 million americans die without lifting a finger, would YOU give up your guns?

that any person who values their freedom would be caught dead supporting such an idea as what you just described is a contradiction of the very freedom they value.





edit on 23-10-2014 by TzarChasm because: (no reason given)

edit on 23-10-2014 by TzarChasm because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 23 2014 @ 06:39 PM
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originally posted by: Grimpachi
a reply to: AlephBet



Sorry but your second post that is supposed to be an explanation of the first???? Does not help one bit. I don't think we are even working from the same language or definitions.



I except that I will not understand what you are trying to say. I would need someone that can think like I and you to be able to translate your messages. I am not sure such an individual exists.


There was a dude that got boared after pondering all the complete make up of himself down to the last cell and even every chemical reaction that a human could go through. So he then decided it would be fun to reproduce himself as everything inside a computer and challenge all those around to come and join him. The reward for them would be the chance at owning the rights to the gaming system. The game has 10 levels of being or history. One of his programmers also got bored and decided to take a run at ownership in a manner that was believed to be unthought of and he got others to fall down inside the system with the goal in mind of trying to cut themselves off from the system. Knowing everything before hand the creator decided to put an invisible noose around their necks that was just long enough to get them near to the end of the game. That gave rise to the saying hows it hanging? be sure and check out stephen colberts mananna bananna and prince hawk cat



posted on Oct, 23 2014 @ 07:42 PM
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This and all of your threads only provide more strong evidence you know absolutely nothing of the creator God nor the Son of the creator God.All you write is vain foolishness of your religious beliefs that make void the “living” word of the creator God.

However I do not condemn you because I completely understand you write these threads of “your” theology because it is your duplicitous nature and character(your name) to do so.Your theology is “you” and in your theology your God is YOU, full of foibles an immaturity proclaiming that it is the Only God and then formulating religious theories to justify your religious agenda.It only makes sense that you believe the Son of the creator God is a flawed heinous monster since you are fatally flawed in your thinking.

However you are not doing anything new.Many before and after you will do the same thing and all of you will have one thing in common …..you are incorrect about all of your theology and are wrong and know nothing of Truth.

The clear evidence of your folly has been presented to you over and over by people of reason yet you can not perceive the Truth and continue to believe lies of your own vain imaginations.Your best recourse would be to stop publishing your ignorance however I am positive you won’t.You have been given over to a strong delusion that you would believe lies. As Yahoshua rightly stated to the religious Jews and you:

“You “study” the scriptures thinking that IN them you have life YET you fail to come to me[Yahoshua] whom they[the scriptures] testify of that I would deliver[free] you”.

Unfortunately for you and anyone foolish enough to listen to you and believe you …you are bound in the prison of your theology through your religious carnal mind (satan) perceiving lies as truth.You will continue to form false doctrines of men and believe them and try to proselytize them(which is against ATS policy and common sense) and infect others.The case for your ignorance and religious hubris mounts more and more evidence all presented by you.The writing is on the wall but all you see is the letters you are writing.

There is no reason to address me directly anymore because I will only be replying to your threads to deny your extreme ignorance of Truth.



posted on Oct, 24 2014 @ 03:15 PM
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As far as I can understand this: you do not believe in the Trinity. Yahweh and Elohim from
Genesis are not the same God but in fact Yahweh is actually Jesus before he was begotten
as the Christ. The only way to understand the Bible is to read the Names of God Bible.
Without this, there is no real way to do a careful reading of the scripture to see who is
mentioned where. A general idea of the Yahweh and Elohist sources is really not enough to
be able to capture all the nuance and detail needed to evaluate your theory.

The way the story progresses, however makes Jesus sound like Satan. He mediates between
God and man and eventually tries to usurp God's position as the creator of all the universe.
He then appears in the flesh as an attempt to reconcile with the creator. Did you think
of this on your own by reading the Names of God Bible? Or did this theory come from some other
source?

I like what you said about taking 3 days to rebuild the temple.

--TomS



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