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Who is the Son of God - True Theology - Precise Presuppositions Require Rogor

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posted on Oct, 21 2014 @ 07:38 PM
I wanted to make this thread to clear up the confusion people have from false presuppositions concerning accepted theology. Often, people read my own theology here and hit a bit of cognitive dissonance with what I present. Lately, this dissonance has come from one of the newest bits of insight I have had. The Son of God is Yahweh. At first, you might think this cannot be demonstrated. Upon closer inspection, it is a simple truth. Examine the evidence:

1) Yahweh formed Adam, planted the Garden, and created the Snake. In Genesis 2, this is the first we see of Yahweh.

Genesis 2 starts with Elohim resting and then proceeds to outline Yahweh in this manner: 4 This is the account of heaven and earth when they were created, at the time when Yahweh Elohim made earth and heaven.

In Genesis 1, we have Elohim (Father) and Ruach Elohim (Spirit of God / Feminine). If you are reading a traditional Bible, the true names of the characters have been changed. Returning to the Names of God Bible, you can delineate the differing aspects of Elohim / Ruach Elohim. From here, you simply note that the image of God is BOTH male and female. It is easy to then see that Genesis 1 is the first account of God creating, while Genesis 2 is the secondary account of the Son of God creating. I liken this to the archetypes created by God and the seeds of the archetypes used by the Son. We can further see this from Colossians 1.

Be careful to note that there are TWO kingdoms listed here. One is that of the Father. The other is that of the Son:

Colossians 1

13 God has rescued us from the power of darkness and has brought us into the kingdom of his Son, whom he loves. 14 His Son paid the price to free us, which means that our sins are forgiven.

15 He is the image of the invisible God,
the firstborn of all creation.
16 He created all things in heaven and on earth,
visible and invisible.
Whether they are kings or lords,
rulers or powers—
everything has been created through him and for him.
17 He existed before everything
and holds everything together.
18 He is also the head of the church, which is his body.
He is the beginning,
the first to come back to life
so that he would have first place in everything.

2) From the verse above, be careful to note that he is the firstborn. Adam was formed, so we rule him out as the Son of God.

3) Luke 3 then tells you who the Son of God is:

Luke 3

37 son of Methuselah, son of Enoch, son of Jared, son of Mahalaleel, son of Cainan,
38 son of Enos, son of Seth,
son of Adam,
son of God.

Trace back the genealogy and what do you get? The Son of God before Adam. Now, who formed Adam? Yahweh.

From this, you can then know how we fell from creation. Unless Yahweh is Satan, then we must conclude that Jesus is the incarnation of the Son of God into human form as Jesus. He then pays the penalty for our own fall, which was directly caused by the deception of the snake. Who formed the Snake?

Genesis 3

3 The snake was more clever than all the wild animals Yahweh Elohim had made. He asked the woman, “Did Elohim really say, ‘You must never eat the fruit of any tree in the garden’?”

From here, Yahweh proclaims himself to be the only God. Later, when he is a human, his journey as a kinsman then humbles him. From here, two figures bless him at baptism.

Matthew 3

13 Then Yeshua appeared. He came from Galilee to the Jordan River to be baptized by John. 14 But John tried to stop him and said, “I need to be baptized by you. Why are you coming to me?”

15 Yeshua answered him, “This is the way it has to be now. This is the proper way to do everything that God requires of us.”

Then John gave in to him. 16 After Yeshua was baptized, he immediately came up from the water. Suddenly, the heavens were opened, and he saw the Spirit of God coming down as a dove to him. 17 Then a voice from heaven said, “This is my Son, whom I love—my Son with whom I am pleased.”

The Spirit of God is Ruach Elohim. She is the Mother, or Holy Spirit. The dove is a representation of peace made with the Son. Then, the Father (Elohim) speaks and says that he loves and is pleased with the Son.

What made God pleased? Yahweh was humbled and grown as a Son, ready for the inheritance. The story of the Prodigal Son is an outline of this story.

For those who wonder why I believe this, simply read the text. It's all there, but you must apply rigor to the analysis. In the end, the Father has a name.

Father - Aleph Bet (Letters)
Son - Bet Nun (WORD)
Mother - Aleph Mem (Strong Water / Cup)

What happens when the DNA of the Father enters the mother's water? A Son, or House (Bet) of Seed (Nun). What makes a Word? Letters. By this fact, we are all Sons and Daughters of God through the Son.

The story takes three characters to make sense. Would God require the cross for something humanity did? No. It was directly caused by the one casting the image into a fallen realm, the one creating the snake and the one paying the price. He is the Redeemer.

Job 19 then outlines this with a bit of a warning.

25 I know that my redeemer lives,
and that in the end he will stand on the earth.
26 And after my skin has been destroyed,
yet in my flesh I will see God;
27 I myself will see him
with my own eyes—I, and not another.
How my heart yearns within me!

28 “If you say, ‘How we will hound him,
since the root of the trouble lies in him,’
29 you should fear the sword yourselves;
for wrath will bring punishment by the sword,
and then you will know that there is judgment.”

Your presuppositions will determine your attitude toward God. Knowing that Yahweh is the prodigal Son allow you to see the truth and beauty of the story. Elohim is the Father. Don't confuse Him with the Son and don't confuse the risen Son with Yahweh. Once a person turns from their sin, it is remembered no more and they are a new creation. Forgive and forget. Unless you do, judgment awaits. Jesus said it right. Forgive your perceived enemies. There is a good reason you should. Know the truth and it sets you free. God will raise all of us with the Son if we acknowledge the truth of the story. Faith wins the victory.

edit on 21-10-2014 by AlephBet because: (no reason given)

posted on Oct, 21 2014 @ 08:00 PM
I forgive you for making such confusing threads.

Honestly I wish I could figure out your posts. I mean the bible is confusing as it is but your interpretations on top of it makes it even harder.

Oh well I have accepted that such messages are not meant for me and they are only for the few that can make heads or tails from them. I thank you for giving it a shot but our brains must be wired completely different.

posted on Oct, 21 2014 @ 08:13 PM

originally posted by: Grimpachi
I forgive you for making such confusing threads.

Honestly I wish I could figure out your posts. I mean the bible is confusing as it is but your interpretations on top of it makes it even harder.

Oh well I have accepted that such messages are not meant for me and they are only for the few that can make heads or tails from them. I thank you for giving it a shot but our brains must be wired completely different.

Your reply is not uncommon. I see it very clearly and the words confirm it with clarity. Here is the simple version, then go back and connect this to the OP.

Father and Mother make a Son. They are ONE Creator God, so the Son is not human like we conceive, but more like a secondary Cosmos. The Mother must be considered the Material used. The Father is the seed. In Genesis 1, Ruach Elohim is feminine. She is not a separate mother, but the other side of God (both male and female). In Physics, this is the Strong Nuclear force. To a Human, the only way for us to conceive of this was to mirror the process from physics to a form we could understand. Creation is then the image of the process. The original creation was perfection, as outlined in Genesis 1, complete with mankind and no restrictions to the garden.

The Son then forms (not creates) Adam. He takes part of the DNA from Adam and splits male and female (image of God). He later proclaims himself to be God with none beside. As the story progresses, he commits genocide on his own world, along with many other detestable acts of pride.

Follow this forward to the New Testament. The Son of God pays the penalty for the fall of creation. By this, the humans formed in the creation are free from the error. Today, however, we are awaiting the conclusion to this story. Many of my threads expand on this, then demonstrate how this mirrors everything we know from our own scientific theory of reality.

It's too fantastic to not be true. It's too interconnected to be false. It's accuracy is astonishing. By this, we know that God is what He claims; God is love and God keeps no records of wrongs. The Son did this willingly for us. He pointed us back to the true Elohim.

edit on 21-10-2014 by AlephBet because: (no reason given)

posted on Oct, 21 2014 @ 08:24 PM
a reply to: AlephBet

Sorry but your second post that is supposed to be an explanation of the first???? Does not help one bit. I don't think we are even working from the same language or definitions.

I except that I will not understand what you are trying to say. I would need someone that can think like I and you to be able to translate your messages. I am not sure such an individual exists.
edit on 21-10-2014 by Grimpachi because: (no reason given)

posted on Oct, 21 2014 @ 08:26 PM
In the beginning was the word. And the word was with God, and the word was God. And the word was made flesh and tented among us (in flesh). The word is Yeshua. He is the only God. All others are false. He and the father are one. He and the Holy spirit are one. He can come to you as either masculine or feminine. He speaks to all who belong to him, as stated in scripture. I have known him for just over a half century, and he has come to me as both. He has come as comforter, instructor, and corrector. He has given me both dreams and awaken visions. He has called me by name and referred to me as child, and this very morning he called me "Son". Im still elated by the last one. He calls to those he has in his hand, always ready to forgive and embrace. He gives joy of the spirit to those who obey.

Surrender is the key. He wants us to trust him, and obey when he speaks. Do it and get the joy. He offers a special euphoria intermingled with a type of sensitive pain.
edit on 21-10-2014 by visitedbythem because: (no reason given)

posted on Oct, 21 2014 @ 08:47 PM
a reply to: visitedbythem

By saying that Jesus is God, you ignore the scriptures.

1 Corinthians 15

20 But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. 22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. 24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27 For he “has put everything under his feet.” Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. 28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.

Clearly, there is a relationship. Is God put under the Son? Answer this, then make sure you refine your previous statement. Why is God requiring this of the Son? The error lies in him. Just as Job stated. His job is not complete until all is made well and the error is fully heeled. Not healed, but heeled. To do this, the Son must love his enemies, do good to all men and follow his own words. He cannot contradict his own word, but must fulfill to the letter.

3 Days to raise the temple. 2 have passed. 1000 years is the remaining job to reveal all things.

You cannot write word without letters. Aleph Bet is Father in Hebrew. The Son will be subject to God once the Son's creation is mended. Until he gains accepted authority over mankind, then the division is still creating a fallen image. This is the Son's task. All occurrences in our own timeline are reflective of the Son's image. This must be true as we look one level higher. God is pleased so far. This was His judgment. Simple and to the point. We can only expect to find out what happens next by the determination of Malachi 4.

Malachi 4

5 “See, I will send the prophet Elijah to you before that great and dreadful day of the Lord comes. 6 He will turn the hearts of the parents to their children, and the hearts of the children to their parents; or else I will come and strike the land with total destruction.”


edit on 21-10-2014 by AlephBet because: (no reason given)

posted on Oct, 21 2014 @ 09:11 PM
a reply to: AlephBet

What IF we all fell ..



You and i somehow someway understand one another. Maybe we read and think similar..have no idea.

Its uncomfortable to think about, i know. I do question whether or not he is the redeemer and forgiver of "our" sins because he is the first and last. The entire loaf... the one who deems "its finished" may very well be the one whom we followed, hence we are one.. we are the fallen.. and we will all rise to Christ with our incarnations as he did.

Its his story... our... history, Jesus included.

posted on Oct, 21 2014 @ 09:29 PM

this is what your threads make me feel like

guess all the interesting people go to hell...see ya there

edit: sorry alephet no offense but your religious threads are very difficult to follow and they have an arrogance to them as if you are the only one who understands the bible..i think it was einstein who said something like you don't really know what you are talking about if you can't explain it to a child....considering few if any understand what you are saying id wager you don't know what your talking about...or just haven't given the time to explain it to the not a religious person but always enjoy the religious threads...make em more understandable and I think people would enjoy discussing them with you
edit on 21-10-2014 by rockpaperhammock because: (no reason given)

posted on Oct, 21 2014 @ 09:40 PM
For clarity, the name of Jesus (just as the spelling is pronounced) was given from heaven by Himself and represents the God of the whole earth

Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. Acts4

Wherefore I give you to understand that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost. 1Corinthians12

And then EHYEH is a revelation of the Covenant God. So that these point to the fullness of the revelation of the GREAT name of Yehshas or Jesus as Creator God, the Blessing God, the Covenant God, and lastly the Saving God. Hence we have here that as the tabernacle and all the symbols and rituals of the Old Testament were TYPES and SHADOWS to be fulfilled and brought to their climax and completion with Christ and the New Testament Church WITH THE REAL, so all the temporary and substitute names and titles of God were only types and shadows of the REAL name of God revealed in Jesus Christ. So that the name of Jesus or Yehshas is not derived from any name of God, but visa versa, they were all derived from and point to Jesus Christ from which they all have their type.

Why is God’s Name so important and how is it used in salvation?
To understand the importance of God’s name, one would have to have some knowledge of how God used his name in the Old Testament. God’s highest power, majesty, and glory is in his name. In addition, the right hand of the power of God and the whole essence of God is in the power of his name.

It is a falsehood for anyone to claim the letter “J” and its sound did not exist until the 16th century. Many of our letter sounds come down to us from the Egyptian and Phoenician languages. These are the two root sources of ancient Paleo Hebrew, Greek, and other languages.

The letter "J" arguments against the name Jesus have no weight or validity as the Egyptian language had a "J" sound and image and Paleo Hebrew descends via this language and its Phoenician root.

It is only reasonable then to see that the Paleo-Hebrew "G" and the "I" also carried the same characteristics. Moses used the Egyptian "Je" as in "Jelly" giving the letter "I" the "Jod" or "G - J" when he renamed Paleo-Hebrew Oshea to Jehoshea.

John 3 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

God did not reveal his highest name to the prophets in the Old Testament. God’s highest name would be used in the plan of salvation and his name would be identified in the New Testament as Jesus Christ - Acts

God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:
Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.Hebrews1
edit on 21-10-2014 by Rustami because: (no reason given)

posted on Oct, 21 2014 @ 10:23 PM
Its real easy: Surrender to the Living God. Accept his plan. Forget about your plans, they don't work.

"There is a way that seems right to mankind, but in the end it leads to death"

Forget the law. It was put in place to show that you cant keep it. Forget animal sacrifice. It was there to show what was coming that was the only thing that would work. Yeshuas blood
God (Yeshua) made a promise to Abraham. They entered into a covenant together. They walked between the carcasses that were torn apart. I did the same thing but used another sacrifice (Yeshua). God promised to be torn apart if he broke the Covenant. He then promised to be torn apart if we broke the Covenant. Then he followed through with his word and was torn apart. That's Love. God never lies. Surrender, and only then will you have understanding. He will give it to you directly, and not through a bunch of people. He will speak directly to you, and you will know he is God. Then, and only then, no one can ever snatch you from his hand. Ever

posted on Oct, 21 2014 @ 10:33 PM
Jesus was named after Joshua. The correct pronunciation is Yeshua, as you would hear it spoken right now. You may call him Jesus, as I sometimes do. Sometimes Father. He has many names. Emanual, King of Kings, it goes on and on. Jesus is a translation of a translation. Look it up. To argue over that is meaningless. If you want to know surrender, and ask him yourself. Forget about religion. Jesus>religion. Its about a personal relationship with the Living God.
He loves and wants you that much, but its also about freewill, as love always is. Its up to you. surrender or separate forever, your choice

PS check out the 4 minute U tube vid called Jesus>religion. This is exactly what I believe and have for eons

posted on Oct, 21 2014 @ 11:20 PM
a reply to: rockpaperhammock

I believe this is the quote you are thinking about.

edit on 21-10-2014 by Grimpachi because: (no reason given)

posted on Oct, 22 2014 @ 12:57 AM
a reply to: AlephBet

My dear brother AlephBet,

Although I do not fully agree with some of your beliefs or some of your conclusions, I do understand the concepts that you are articulating. This thread, in particular, is one of the most easy-to-follow and understandable of your recent threads. Nice job on putting it together in a fluid and logical way. S&F!

posted on Oct, 22 2014 @ 01:23 AM
a reply to: AlephBet

Unless Yahweh is Satan...


Fortunately I don't believe "satan" exists... Its nothing more then the materialistic human...

Or "the beast" as you've said in your older threads...

Though IF there is an "evil incarnate"... Yahweh wins the title, to be certain

posted on Oct, 22 2014 @ 06:58 AM

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: AlephBet

Unless Yahweh is Satan...


Fortunately I don't believe "satan" exists... Its nothing more then the materialistic human...

Or "the beast" as you've said in your older threads...

Though IF there is an "evil incarnate"... Yahweh wins the title, to be certain

This is a point that you might consider. God saved Paul, a persecute of Christians. He selected Paul as this messenger of Grace to the Gentiles specifically because of his past. If Yahweh is the Son of God, then we can say the same about His past in relation to His salvation. Viewing this, then we each have quite the opportunity for salvation by comparison.

posted on Oct, 22 2014 @ 07:05 AM
a reply to: MamaJ

This is something I have considered as well. If you take it one step further, what if each of us is Him only. He experiences the full gamete so to speak. Like a body having 50 trillion cells, the cells do not live past seven years. Maybe we are the cells of his body. 1 Corinthians 10 seems to suggest this.

I don't think this is the case. If you simply trace it back, then all the sons of God are cells of his body. Once you get back to God, what's the point? God makes it clear that the point is fellowship and for Him to be all in all. The all never ends.

posted on Oct, 22 2014 @ 07:11 AM
a reply to: Rustami

when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:
Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.Hebrews1

Consider what you are showing here. Yahweh is the central figure of all the Old Testament, then is not mentioned in the New by name. He is referenced, but not named. He is quoted, but not named. Why do you suppose this is?

posted on Oct, 22 2014 @ 07:14 AM
a reply to: visitedbythem

I agree, but like Job, we must know who the Redeemer is. Job required no sacrifice at the end of the book of Job, but the other did. Sacrifice of a beast is what we do when we give up the animal nature and in turn, surrender to God.

I reference the verse a few posts ago from Hebrews.

...when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:
Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.Hebrews1

What will we be at the Resurrection? No marriage required. We will be the full image of God (Both Male and Female).

Matthew 22:30 - At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.

posted on Oct, 22 2014 @ 07:16 AM
I have to agree with Sahabi, this is one of the easiest threads you have done. But still has some flaws, basically you are blaming the Son (YHVH) for the fall of Man. And that He came to Earth in human form as Jesus to redeem himself. Your error is in trying to established that GOD made a mistake (I think you are the one mistaken) in the creation. Your second error is trying to convinced people that what you are saying is the truth and nothing else.

First of all, God does not make mistakes, unless we are talking about an imperfect god. And this god that you are talking about is way imperfect. Note: "A god cannot be imperfect, because it will lose any divinity, a god is perfect even if his decisions look bad. Remember that anything that god do has a purpose. So he cannot be wrong, even if it looks like it. Even him understand this. So accepting he was wrong is accepting he is not god".
Genesis 6
6 And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

So, who is the real GOD?
That answer we can find in the gnostic texts. The myth of Sabaoth and Yaldabaoth. There is a very interesting story about the creation of not only this world, but the entire universe and the spiritual realm.

About the second part:
The one you talk like you think you have the truth. Please!!!! Humble yourself a bit and try not to look like you know everything or think you know everything. I recognize you are a very intelligent and smart person, but what you are doing right know is not teaching, is "indoctrination".

posted on Oct, 22 2014 @ 08:11 AM
a reply to: Grimpachi

thanks mate..! it is such a good quote

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