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33 Police Officers Fire 600 Bullets into Car Knowing It Contained a Hostage

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posted on Oct, 21 2014 @ 05:59 PM
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originally posted by: boohoo

originally posted by: markovian
so my take we have a violent gang members robing a bank and shooting people if u try to stop them

the hostages where probly going to die anyway is my take on it


So the public takeaway from all this should be "fight for your own life" because Law Enforcement is CLEARLY saying, "From here on out civilians will need to look out for their own safety interests because sworn Law Enforcement personnel will not and can not do such, when on duty".



its more like in this case the hostages where cought in a gangwar both sides where ruthless murderes and could care less about them



(post by weirdguy removed for a serious terms and conditions violation)

posted on Oct, 21 2014 @ 06:36 PM
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a reply to: weirdguy

It's insane and it's a total execution. Shoot first don't even ask questions. The union reps and everybody else will protect them. Sheer terror.



posted on Oct, 21 2014 @ 06:41 PM
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a reply to: snarky412

i think in some areas police are allowed to choose their own side arms,so that would have been a factor

standard issue beretta is 15+1
glocks can go anywhere from 10-33

now if they were using long arms (rifles/shot guns) standard ar/m4 will have 20-30 rounds per mag and shotguns usually 5-8 depending on model so any one shooting a hand gun or a shotgun would have had to reload and keep firing to reach that round count.

now if they were all using ar's/M4's they still had to reload but not as many as if they were using handguns

i think this is one of the better examples of "contagious shooting" ive seen in years
en.wikipedia.org...

A contagious shooting is a sociological phenomenon observed in military and police personnel in the United States, in which one person firing on a target can induce others to begin shooting. Often the subsequent shooters will not know why they are firing.[1][2][3] This is defined as "officers firing because others are doing so," or according to Professor Eugene J. O'Donnell of John Jay College, "cops shoot because other cops shoot."[4] While commonly accepted in popular culture and police jargon, there has been yet no scientific evidence "to prove the existence of a contagious shooting dynamic," which O'Donnell said was a "debatable notion."[4] Additionally, a former CIA employee and FBI firearms instructor observed it in training. "Consistently, in every class, officers would shoot at their target upon hearing others shoot, even when their particular target board did not contain the called target."[5] He suggests that one reason it occurs is because of muscle memory: "[T]he targets turn or the whistle blows, and all the officers shoot together until a cease fire signal is given." O'Donnell partially reinforces this, saying that in classic cases involving contagious shooting, "a gun was shot before any officers fired," and thus "the officers involved began shooting because of fear or because of the sound of a colleague firing."
sorry for long quote but this seems to sum up what happened.

the truly terrifying part is how many rounds missed such a relatively large target(automobile)and how many additonal lives were put at risk due to stray rounds in addition to the hostage they shot



posted on Oct, 21 2014 @ 06:44 PM
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a reply to: snarky412

Sickening.



posted on Oct, 21 2014 @ 06:45 PM
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a reply to: RalagaNarHallas

Thanks....

It is truly terrifying to think of innocent by-standers that could have been hurt with all that fire power

In the CNN article the other poster linked, it only mentioned the guns the gang used, I don't recall it mentioning what guns the cops used, unless I overlooked it
Nor did they push the issue of 600 rounds being fired by the cops as being overzealous


edit on 21-10-2014 by snarky412 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 21 2014 @ 06:50 PM
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originally posted by: Yeahkeepwatchingme
a reply to: weirdguy

It's insane and it's a total execution. Shoot first don't even ask questions. The union reps and everybody else will protect them. Sheer terror.


Ah there's that echo chamber that we were talking about!


Did either of you even bother a few precious minutes to read the article?

Here's a few highlights;
High Speed chase last 55 miles+.
Three hostages (one jumped and lived, another one who died, (though it is not known whether she was thrown or jumped), and one who died as a result of multiple gunshot wounds.
Perps started firing first and fired over 100 shots themselves (AK type weapons if memory serves right).

Then we also have the cops over reacting, firing over 600 rounds themselves.

But of course, there are those who refuse to "Judge a burglar" because that would be in bad form, but on every thread that a cop is involved clearly judges them.



posted on Oct, 21 2014 @ 06:52 PM
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a reply to: snarky412

The truly sad fact about this situation is that, out of the entire 33 police officers, not one to step up and say STOP firing, there is a hostage in that car. Not one! One shot and they all start firing. Mindless b**tards!



posted on Oct, 21 2014 @ 06:56 PM
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a reply to: CharlesT

There's no accountability and they probably felt they were all firing what's the difference? Hiding behind the badge does not excuse you from the obligations of humanity.



posted on Oct, 21 2014 @ 06:57 PM
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a reply to: snarky412


Holt-Singh was in the vehicle as the three suspects lead police on a high speed chase which lasted for nearly an hour. The suspects reportedly fired over 100 rounds at officers during the 55 mile incident. Read more at thefreethoughtproject.com...
from OP's article so during this chase the people of stockton had to deal with 100+ rounds from the gangmembers/criminals in addition to 600 fired by police that is over 700 rounds in once incident
and the only other case i can recall where that many rounds were fired in one go was the Beckworth incidentwww.afn.org... while slightly off topic i post this for two reasons:

1.he fired a comparable number of rounds defending his gun store but did it in a legal fashion and did not endanger innocnet lives by his actions AND he chose to accept surrender of the suspects all factors that led to him being found NOT guilty after a long and expensive trial

2. mr beckwith was using fully automatic weapons in self defense the rarest kind of self defense for a citizen to cite ,and he seems to have used much more common sense and forward thinking in what was undoubtedly a stressful situation(comparable to the stress the police had to endure during the chase/hostage situation) yet he managed to not overstep his legal self defense rights and keep his cool where as trained police seem to not be capable of that(from this case alone i dont want to generalize all cops i just dont know another way to say it if that makes sense) it is also comparable as the only person mr beckwith killed was the suspect who was driving an automobile who he managed to fatally wound with out causing lots of collateral damage

sorry if its off topic mods can remove that part i just felt it was relevent to show a case where a citizen showed for self restraint and good thinking in a high stress situation then the police (in this case) who are alegedly trained how to handle this kind of thing
edit to add another snippet from the ops original link

Jaime Ramos, 19, the sole surviving suspect, has been charged with her murder. The family of Holt-Singh has not yet announced if they will file a lawsuit against the department. Read more at thefreethoughtproject.com...
so the survivor is the one being charged with the murder under the felony murder rule posted by other memebers allready
edit on 21-10-2014 by RalagaNarHallas because: (no reason given)
one last thing each officer had to fire 18.181 rounds each to get the 600 round count for 33 officers (had not seen this posted yet)
edit on 21-10-2014 by RalagaNarHallas because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 21 2014 @ 07:13 PM
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it was...the transporter. thats right. thats the movie where there is this one scene in which sam jackson tells statham that he is willing to blow up a hundred citizens if it means saving a million. im paraphrasing here.

is that the mentality we are looking at with this incident? risking the life of one civilian to avoid a traffic disaster or some other calamity involving a fugitive on wheels and numerous civilian casualities?
edit on 21-10-2014 by TzarChasm because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 21 2014 @ 07:15 PM
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a reply to: TDawgRex

I think a number of people are probably thinking that this was a standoff with a stopped vehicle and the cops just opened up all at once.



posted on Oct, 21 2014 @ 07:15 PM
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I wish someone had already said they just blankfired at a vehicle. There is no way that any of those police had no knowledge of an innocent hostage. R.I.P. the lady, and condolences to the family losing a loved one to the stupidity of gangsters and police.



posted on Oct, 21 2014 @ 07:27 PM
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a reply to: RalagaNarHallas
Its like how a riot starts..get a crowd of idiots together and it only takes one to set it all off..in society though we are supposed to prosecute rioters. I hope only the worst for these morons.



posted on Oct, 21 2014 @ 07:27 PM
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originally posted by: Domo1
a reply to: TDawgRex

I think a number of people are probably thinking that this was a standoff with a stopped vehicle and the cops just opened up all at once.


Yep, I see that all to often here nowadays. People responding to headlines, rather than reading the story and possibly even thinking for themselves. But they prefer to be mindless automatons that randomly poop out "All Cops baaaad." or some such revolutionary bilge because I guess it's fashionable and under 140 characters.

I think that we can all agree that what these LEOs did was bad. Totally unprofessional and unacceptable and some do need to be punished to the fullest extent of the law.

*SNIP*
edit on 21-10-2014 by burdman30ott6 because: Please post with civility and decorum, thanks. ATS STaff



posted on Oct, 21 2014 @ 07:30 PM
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a reply to: Domo1
When a chase up here gets as out of hand as this one did the police call it off so as not to put more people in danger.



posted on Oct, 21 2014 @ 07:35 PM
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originally posted by: Domo1
a reply to: TDawgRex

I think a number of people are probably thinking that this was a standoff with a stopped vehicle and the cops just opened up all at once.


Because they were firing into a stopped vehicle, a lot. But the cops wouldn't do something like that and loose control would they?


ok, to be fair there are a couple of point in the video above. Firstly, I can here bullets whizzing, I not sure if they are from ricochet or in coming fire. Secondly, at the 25-26 second mark there seems to be a long burst of automatic fire that can be heard in the distance. I don't know about guns, does it sound like a AK to you guys? From what I have read there is only 1 AK attached to this crime? If it is an AK then the criminal had already survived a hail of bullets and is still responding by shooting back, if you know what I'm getting at?
edit on 21-10-2014 by weirdguy because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 21 2014 @ 07:39 PM
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a reply to: boohoo

That was the message I heard: We are just another gang, and you are on your own.



posted on Oct, 21 2014 @ 07:40 PM
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a reply to: 0zzymand0s

They are a gang. Acts like this only convince people further.



posted on Oct, 21 2014 @ 07:51 PM
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originally posted by: weirdguy
Because they were firing into a stopped vehicle, a lot. But the cops wouldn't do something like that and loose control would they?


There were plenty of shots fired during the chase as well. I'm not defending the cops in this case and I don't think others are either. This incident could have been, but wasn't handled properly.

I have always made it known that I have a beef with LEO's that don't have proper fire control. Emptying multiple magazines into a stopped vehicle makes absolutely no sense. Where were the shift supervisors and other police leadership during all this? Aren't they the ones who are supposed to make decisions as to who is the designated shooters in cases like this?

I'd also like to see the crime scene drawings of where each car was parked. I'm thinking that cops were just missing other cops while blazing away. I heard at least three near misses in that vid you posted.



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