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An American Warden Visited A Norwegian Prison, And He Couldn't Believe What He Saw

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posted on Oct, 22 2014 @ 01:28 PM
a reply to: Viking9019

You are sickened in what way? Migraines because you can't comprehend that all of these people will return to society and won't feel that they don't belong?

It's why they don't go back to prison. They WANT to be NORWEGIANS. That's because they have always known their fellow citizens have their back. They are not socially retarded and neither are is their government.

I figure you for.....put something really. really terrible here....., a person who thinks that punishment makes for better people. You will never be dissuaded from this concept, no matter how little objective support can be found.

posted on Oct, 22 2014 @ 03:08 PM
a reply to: largo


posted on Oct, 22 2014 @ 03:08 PM

originally posted by: douglas5
The prison system in the U.K is being upgraded to the U.S system , a central block with wings of 50 + cells either side , unlike the old victorian prisons where the time flew the new super prisons a day feels like a week but you still get people who want to get sent to prison to kick drug habits , but if they looked like the Norwegian cells everyone would be in trouble to have facilities like those

Mimicking the American penal system would be a downgrade for any European country but then Britain always was the odd one. They followed us in to Iraq and Afghanistan, now it sounds like they want the free prison labor too as a giveaway for the big corporations.
It's truly a sad mess that we have here in the US, over 2 million people behind bars - many of whom are there for non-violent offenses like simple possession of drugs. The violent prisoners and the non-violent should never be mixed together imo. Drug treatment would be a far better use of our tax money instead of warehousing people for profit.

posted on Oct, 22 2014 @ 03:11 PM
a reply to: Asktheanimals

Yeah id op for a two tier prison sysem.

A brutal US style one for the rapist and murderers were punishment is more a priority. And a Norwegian system one for the non violent crimes were rehabilitation should take priority.

Hardened violent criminals should never be mixed with non violent as it just breeds worse.

posted on Oct, 22 2014 @ 08:11 PM
I'd have to remove from any following comments, ordinary people who were sent to jail for having a joint in their pocket et al. While this 'war on drugs' that makes peons and even bystanders guilty(-er, sometimes) than dealers and drug lords supports the 'industry' of prison, it has little to do with the issues of justice, punishment or rehabilitation.

Here in the USA, you can bilk people out of their entire retirement savings when they are elderly, utterly ruin the lives of countless people, and still be walking around free and considered an philanthropist (read Michael Milliken's wiki page). You can destroy rivers and landscapes, you can indirectly murder insane numbers of people knowingly since the corporate 'fine' is about 1% of your profits if that, and still be walking around free and considered a progressive leader in industry.

But if you steal a radio out of a car you damn well bet you're going to jail.

There is a situation where with enough inquiry, you discover that most violent criminals were malnourished growing up, are still malnourished, are often people who genetically or triggered-environmentally are actually highly sensitive to reaction to our cuture's common foods and non-foods (nonfoods such as GMO wheat and MSG for example), often have incredibly little education (regardless of their schooling), and may be physiologically and psychologically so messed up from this combination of factors that they may or may not even be educable. I would like to think everybody is to varying degrees, but I'm a pathological optimist. These people in most cases are not in jail because between their decent job and decent life they committed a crime. Many of them would not have been able to get or keep a job even before that, were nearly incapable of living peacefully with other people even before that, and they had no belief in themselves or their future. In short, they had nothing to lose. They also had nothing to save.

Most people avoid crimes for several reasons, but one is that it means sacrificing every good thing in your life, directly or indirectly, if you go to jail. For people who feel they have nothing (and often that's pretty much the case), they have nothing to lose and nothing to save. Living "in the moment" where who-seems-cooler becomes an issue worth life and death is the only thing they've got. The modern urban ghetto is like a gulag with women and kids and cars.

It would take more than "here's a nice room" for these people. I say that not with condescension, but with compassion, because I believe vengeance for destroying people is inappropriate and inefficient (for anything but profit) and creates misery, when we could be contributing to their future and in turn to the future they could contribute to our economy and culture. Many of these people never, NEVER had a decent home life, anybody in their life with compassion, nutritious food and patient teaching, and other things that are part of basic culture in much of the world and most people cannot even imagine the circumstance of not having. There but for the grace of God, as the saying goes. Others have no idea what it's actually like, or what THEY might be like had they been subjected to the same situation.

The environment in US prison is designed both intentionally and unintentionally to break a person for the most part, and their ability to ever feel or be normal again is mostly lost, making adaptation incredibly difficult.

The bias in our society against ex-cons makes it incredibly difficult for them to integrate into society. When you lock a person into "no options," so they cannot find gainful employment, they cannot re-establish a sense of self esteem and a respectable life and support a family, is obviously likely to send people back to mercenary 'employment' if that's the only kind they can get, or into a tailspin of poverty and negative psychology that's unlikely to end well.

In the end, it simply comes down to the priorities of a culture. If our culture prioritized healthy, contributive citizens, we wouldn't have the degree and scope of issues leading to the majority of people who are behind our bars to begin with. That is not really where our priorities are, which is unfortunate.

Other smaller countries may have other priorities. More power to them.

I remember when I was 19 being very cynical and writing a very negative poem, which was all about violent prisoners having a place to stay and college neither of which I could afford and I was working 90 hours a week trying to earn it. I felt like if only I'd commit a crime I'd get better treatment than trying to make something of myself. That might be so in some rare cases, specialty prisons or something, but it's not the case for most prisons, modern panopticons, which are just a miserable pit of hell that ensures anybody going in is 10x as bad coming out. I had assumptions. They were wrong.

posted on Oct, 22 2014 @ 08:15 PM
Just being taken away from society is a fair punishment, it doesn't matter what you have in jail whether its luxury or outright crap.. You still dont have the freedom to walk out of the prison either way.

posted on Oct, 22 2014 @ 08:34 PM
a reply to: AlaskanDad

Crazy... They almost treat as humans!!!!!!

Humans who need help... What a concept... I hope the US warden realizes what a fool he has been... I doubt it though, that's why he is in the job he is in.

posted on Oct, 22 2014 @ 10:07 PM
We have to many laws that put people in jail here in USA when harsh fines would do the trick. No need to jail non violent offenders. In fact it is disgusting to do so.

posted on Oct, 23 2014 @ 09:59 AM
And in the US pri$ons:

A Dallas Company Finds Profit in Video-Only Jail Visitations

Securus markets its video system as a cost-saver for jails and a convenience for family members who live far from their incarcerated loved ones. But the structure of the deals suggests there are powerful financial incentives for jails to curb or eliminate face-to-face visitation. Securus charges callers as much as a dollar a minute to use its video services, and jails get a 20 to 25 percent cut. For big-city jails, that could mean millions in extra money.


posted on Oct, 23 2014 @ 12:20 PM
a reply to: Asktheanimals

I got a 6 week sentence for protesting 4 years ago and got shipped to one of the new prisons and just like the U.S it is all about profit , 50.000 $ + a year to house a prisoner in the uk with as few guards as possible but very little if anything to do no work as it is illegal ? unless you have a cleaning job inside but those are only for long term prisoners , 4 weeks was way to long for me the boredom nearly killed me and that is saying something for me as i can handle groundhog day or so i thought [ no more protesting for me ] i really feel for guys in the new prisons , and it is permanent hunger with the 2 $ a day budget to feed you

posted on Oct, 27 2014 @ 07:01 PM

originally posted by: Viking9019
The prisons in Norway are well known for being like a goddamn hotel.
It's sickening.

No its healing, and the way it should be for the very few people that should even be in prison. Social justice, equality and a decent country where no one is homeless or mistreated certainly reduces trauma and crime.

And not having things made into crimes that violate our true freedoms to begin with.

And other than that, retaliation and punishment are Satan not Godly Healing, Beauty, Councilling, Love, is where its at.

posted on Oct, 27 2014 @ 07:14 PM
Of course the US has 10x more inmates than Norway. 15+ years for murder, 0-5 years for anything other than murder. A $50 000 identity theft doesn't even get accused by the law. Completely bonkers...

In the US people get put away for life.. So exponentially you might actually have LESS inmates serving, and Norway a bigger amount of criminals although they finish serving "time" fast.

And yes, Norway has big problems with criminal immigrants. The minority dominates the crime percentage. Go figure..

a reply to: AlaskanDad

edit on 27-10-2014 by br0ker because: +

posted on Oct, 27 2014 @ 07:27 PM
it sounds good now, but muslims are destroying my beloved fathers homeland. soon it will be a s hole since they refuse to do anything about the infestation.

posted on Oct, 27 2014 @ 08:10 PM
a reply to: onequestion

france has it's right-to-be-forgotten...

something the US should adopt as an amendment... the right to have all records of yourself erased.... of course not unlimited.

posted on Oct, 27 2014 @ 09:11 PM
I wonder if the Norway shooter who killed 77 people in 2011 is staying in such a place. If so, that is really disgusting. If not, nice place to visit but I still wouldn't want stay there (jail).

Their police don't carry guns either! There is only 5 million people in Norway. If I took one town of the same population in the US, the stats might be similar. OP, why don't you do a comparison of a larger country? It would be more relevant. I'm surprised you haven't pulled up Iceland yet, they only have around 400,000 people. Here, let me help you. In 2012 they only had 124 prisoners so their prison population is .00031 which makes Norway look like a crime capital. Their recidivism rate is almost nil and their prison is nicer than Norway.

Founded in 1982, Bastoy Prison is located on a lush, 1-square-mile island of pine trees and rocky coasts, with views of the ocean that are postcard-worthy. It feels more like a resort than jail, and prisoners here enjoy freedoms that would be unthinkable elsewhere.

It's the holiday version of Alcatraz.

There's a beach where prisoners sunbathe in the summer, plenty of good fishing spots, a sauna and tennis courts. Horses roam gravel roads. Some of the 115 prisoners here -- all men and serving time for murder, rape and trafficking heroin, among other crimes -- stay in wooden cottages, painted cheery red. They come and go as they please. Others live in "The Big House," a white mansion on a hill that, on the inside, looks like a college dorm. A chicken lives in the basement, a guard said, and provides eggs for the inmates.

We all know that US cops and prisons suck, people convicted of things that shouldn't be illegal. Crooked judges. Yeah it sucks. But what you gonna do? If employment were better, it would alleviate a lot of crime. So would getting rid of heroin and meth.

edit on 27-10-2014 by StoutBroux because: (no reason given)

posted on Oct, 27 2014 @ 09:34 PM
a reply to: StoutBroux

This should answer your question:

Anders Behring Breivik's prison: Ila near Oslo

An interesting read!

posted on Oct, 27 2014 @ 09:46 PM
a reply to: AlaskanDad
Thanks, I will read it. Kind of wondered where he went for his 21 year sentence.

posted on Oct, 28 2014 @ 12:30 AM
It's weird. Prisoners like the Norwegian shooter who killed 77 - the largest attack in Norway since WWII - gets a comparably luxurious life. He has an exercise room, an office, a bedroom and a room "outside". He can choose when he goes to bed, has a computer, has a library, is fed nutritional food, etc. Yet here in America many thousands of homeless are on the streets everyday in the major cities. They're not guaranteed food or shelter or healthcare or privacy or security. Average life expencany for a male is 49.

The world cannot afford to pay for all the rejects. That's why thousands die everyday. Isolated countries might defy this in limited ways. It's kind of like if a Hurricane is blowing through your city and you're perfectly safe inside your hurricane proof bunker, yet outside homes and businesses are being destroyed.

Norway is not an example of what we should do, it's just a microcalm in the storm. It's a momentary relaxing of a thundering volcano.

People and beings of all creeds are treated differently in different places and times. There're lots of ways to turn this around in our mind. Higher civilizations might treat their "prisoners" much less severely than we do, in absolute terms. We can ourselves look at a developing country and see many problems: hunger, disease, abuse, etc. We can muse on this and compare it to our lifestyle in a developed nation. The same thing happens when a rich man eyes a much poorer man and contemplates what life would be like without luxury. And then a spacecraft from a higher civilization visits earth and they look at our plight and feel much the same. And again we can in the modern world think back to a more ancient world and see how their suffering could be so extreme versus our own.

A poor person living today lives like a king versus ancient past. Infant mortality was so high in the past. For every child reaching adulthood, many more died. And surviving to reach 50 was would be rare. One mistep in the wilderness and their life is over. I've read old people would leave the tribe to meet their death in trying times.

Even just 130 years ago life as a ship crewman was composed of making only enough money to sometimes survive. Life was wretched. Nameless men fell overboard to never be know of again. Food was maggot filled bread and larva-rich(!) oatmeal and beer. Bad blood between enemies and bodies are just left at the port city. Policeman can't do much about it because their hands are tied. Life was short if one did not move on. Compare this to today? It's better, but people still die. Maybe in 130 years they will tell horror stories of how peopel today lived on ships?
edit on 28-10-2014 by jonnywhite because: (no reason given)

posted on Oct, 28 2014 @ 06:01 AM

originally posted by: nugget1
If I lived in Norway, and were homeless- I'd rob a bank with a squirt gun and hope for a very long sentence.

if you lived in norway it would be shocking if things got so bad you felt you had to

pretty messed up everyone would rather live in a norwegian prison than an american city though
....maybe its not that they treat their prisoners too well but that other countries treat their citizens like cattle and have completely destroyed any expectations of reasonable treatment
edit on 28-10-2014 by sirhumperdink because: (no reason given)

posted on Oct, 28 2014 @ 06:40 AM
You gotta remember that this is Norway. Not the US or UK. They are mainly white with little immigration. MUCH different.

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