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Is there an organized effort to undermine the Aliens and UFOs forum?

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posted on Jan, 19 2015 @ 11:00 AM
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originally posted by: ZetaRediculian

originally posted by: Paperjacket

originally posted by: ZetaRediculian
a reply to: Paperjacket

You can claim anything indeed because we know who you are by reading your posts.


Well, I have no clue who he is but I am damn sure that I wont be arguing about math with him.



If you had a Ph.D in Mathematics or lets say a Ph.D in Mathematics sitting beside you, it would be a different issue.

He has like 33 million stars. That's got to be equal to at least 2 Ph.Ds!


To assume that out of 33 million stars none of them are for mathematical achievement would be sheer arrogance.




posted on Jan, 19 2015 @ 11:14 AM
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originally posted by: ZetaRediculian

originally posted by: Paperjacket

originally posted by: ZetaRediculian
a reply to: Paperjacket

You can claim anything indeed because we know who you are by reading your posts.


Well, I have no clue who he is but I am damn sure that I wont be arguing about math with him.



If you had a Ph.D in Mathematics or lets say a Ph.D in Mathematics sitting beside you, it would be a different issue.

He has like 33 million stars. That's got to be equal to at least 2 Ph.Ds!


But the thing is the more you study and research, the less possible you would make mighty claims. In the end you will find that what you are so sure about has been dramatically narrowed into a very small field. Since you are not so sure about many other things, it would be better to have an open mind and to make judgement not that mighty because there are always people out there who may incidentally quite familiar in those fields.



posted on Jan, 19 2015 @ 02:23 PM
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originally posted by: Paperjacket
a reply to: Harte

Well if you were majored in Mathematics, you could understand what I have said. You can claim anything indeed because we know who you are by reading your posts. And the more you talk the more you are exposed. Let me tell you something how we see through you. For example, we do not visualize multi-dimensional space, totally different from what you have claimed that "the toughness lies in the inability to visualize it" and furthermore multi-dimensional space does not mean four dimensional space. Another example is we do not use the word GAME as you have claimed that " It's all a game of logical conclusions based on postulates that are defined as true" because there is the Game Theory and the word game could be very confusing.

Sorry, but game theory - the name for a particular (and quite limited) branch of mathematics, is completely and utterly based on a series of logical steps that start from postulates that are defined as true and lead to mathematical conclusions that are proven to be true through the use of those logical steps and postulates.

Exactly as I described and no "theory" involved. Other than the "theory" that mathematics can be applied to reality.


originally posted by: PaperjacketAnd of course you know nothing about so called the Mathematical Physics and now you see that we do not have any intersection for proper communication. So please stop now.

The internet is so attractive because it allows people claim anything without being confronted face by face, fantasti

Given that I teach the subject itself (both Physics and Mathematics,) I believe I have the standing to state that you have no idea what you're talking about when you make this ignorant claim about me.

Harte
edit on 1/19/2015 by Harte because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 19 2015 @ 02:34 PM
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originally posted by: ZetaRediculian
a reply to: Paperjacket

You can claim anything indeed because we know who you are by reading your posts.


Well, I have no clue who he is but I am damn sure that I wont be arguing about math with him.


LOL. You'd do well not to argue Ancient Aliens or Atlantis/Mu/Lemuria with me as well.
Not that you would, since you and I agree on those subjects, as I recall.


originally posted by: ZetaRediculian
He has like 33 million stars. That's got to be equal to at least 2 Ph.Ds!


originally posted by: draknoir2
To assume that out of 33 million stars none of them are for mathematical achievement would be sheer arrogance.

As much as I am tempted to take this sort of credit, the fact is the stars came from a glitch here at ATS - apparently from people starring my posts that I wrote prior to some sort of change that occurred in the programming here at ATS, and not because of my mathematical prowess.

I will say that I hold a BS in Math, wherein I concentrated in Advanced Topics in Algebra, (mostly things like matrices, vector spaces, groups, rings and fields.) I also have a BS in Mechanical Engineering, which I acquired (mainly) through transferring my math credits (and Physics and, of course, core curriculum credits) in order to make a living in some way other than pure Mathematics.

There have been mathematical geniuses that have starved to death. My appetite wouldn't allow that.

Harte



posted on Jan, 19 2015 @ 02:38 PM
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a reply to: Harte

A BS in math beats BS math every time.



posted on Jan, 19 2015 @ 02:45 PM
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originally posted by: draknoir2
a reply to: Harte

A BS in math beats BS math every time.

Well, the department wanted me to continue into grad school, but I thought better of it.

I looked at it this way: An academic with advanced degrees in, say, History does research in places like Vienna.

A Post Grad Mathematician does research in a cubicle with a computer, a pencil and a piece of paper.

Not exactly my lifestyle.

Harte



posted on Jan, 19 2015 @ 02:55 PM
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originally posted by: duaneology
I'm new here so please correct me if I'm way off base. I just seem to notice an active effort by a number of ATS posters to discredit and belittle anything and everything posted here along with this sections regular contributors.

I'm not going to link them and give the agitators more attention but I've seen it in the Stanton Friedman thread and many others. Not only here but all throughout ATS I read disparaging remarks about this forum and those who post here.

It makes me feel like an attempt is being made to have the topic viewed as fringe and flaky as possible.

Your thoughts?


I try not to post on those. I know I'll upset someone. I don't want to rain on your fun. It's really not my cup of tea but you are entitled to your opinion. If you're happy and others are, I see no reason to cause a stir. There's room for everyone.



posted on Jan, 19 2015 @ 04:53 PM
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originally posted by: FormOfTheLord

originally posted by: chachonee
Hello,

I feel the same way, I had a experience a while back and wanted to tell the world, but decide to be quiet.


I know what you mean some folks from my co-op went camping and we all saw something as well.

However if you say that we all saw something on this forum skeptics will just explain it all away.

Ever see a high altitude plane shine and become about the size of the moon in the sky before? Nope didnt think so.


So you saw something. So what? I don't see anyone disputing that. What was it? If you claim it was a alien spaceship piloted by ETs, then you'll have to back that up with some evidence. I didn't see you make that claim. Good thinking.



posted on Jan, 19 2015 @ 04:56 PM
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originally posted by: Paperjacket

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: Paperjacket
a reply to: Tangerine

I knew the discussion would lead to this scenario


Suppose you had a weird dream last night and you decide to share the dream with your friends. You tell them your dream and that is all you can do in fact because it is very personal and of course with no witness. Do your friends ask you for "testable evidence"? No, they won't because the dream itself is untestable. They may believe your dream or call you a liar. If they call you a liar, what would you do? If you don't care, you may say Ok! believe it or not! If you are so determined to make your friends believe what you have dreamed about, you may say OK! I would rather go polygraph. Now things have changed. You don't prove your dream is true because it is untestable, instead you want to prove that you did not lie to your friends. By doing so, they may believe your dream.

It is quite similar when someone claims that he was abducted. What he can do the most is go polygraph if he is so determined to persuade us. However it is you who should find eveidence to prove that he was not abducted but just a kind of illusion. When you use the term "testable evidence" in this scenario it is simply wrong.


You seem to be a bit confused about how this works. The onus is on the one making the positive claim (ie. I was abducted by aliens) to prove his/her claim of fact. It is not the job of someone questioning the claim to disprove it. In fact, it is impossible to prove a negative. A polygraph test would only demonstrate whether the person believed s/he was telling the truth not whether it was the actual truth. I did notice that you didn't offer any testable evidence, whatsoever, to prove that ETs exist, have visited earth and have abducted people. Shall we assume that you are not going to make that claim of fact?


It seems that you don't understand what I was saying at all. In order to set up mutual understanding of what we are talking about so that we can communicate, please answer my following question: Do you dream?

BTW, as far as the existence of extraterrestrials is concerned, not only do I believe there are the ETs visiting our planet, but I have some theories/hypothesis on that such as :www.abovetopsecret.com...


Yes, I dream. Now my question to you is whether you can cite testable evidence proving that ETs have visited earth (unless you're stating it as a belief and not a claim of fact)?



posted on Jan, 19 2015 @ 04:58 PM
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originally posted by: Paperjacket

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: Paperjacket
a reply to: ZetaRediculian

I was saying even if there is no physical evidence, which I believe is highly possible, what kind of attitude we should have towards those who claim being abducted. In fact people are skeptical, the difference lies in if we are willing to accept something unusual. Some people are not, while some other people are and the latter discover new worlds.


The latter have to prove that they've discovered new worlds.


Again you missed my points. What I was saying is the latter have the chance to discover new worlds and what I did not point out directly is the former are just door men. Of course, if a new world is discovered, it should be proved.


You are hereby granted permission to seek testable evidence proving that extraterrestrials exist, have visited earth and have abducted people. I look forward to your return with evidence.



posted on Jan, 20 2015 @ 02:00 AM
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a reply to: Harte

A theory are results deducted through reasoning process based on assumptions and models. Even though Mathematical theories are the most rigorous ones in the field of science and by simply wiki "mathematical theory" you will get a long list, in fact you can still always claim whatever you want such as there are no theories and no assumptions in Mathematics because it is your claim and apparently your free will. I can keep saying A and you can keep saying B and I don't see the end of claims. Since I have made my points clear in several replies and so did you, I will just stop here.



posted on Jan, 20 2015 @ 02:23 AM
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originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: Paperjacket

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: Paperjacket
a reply to: Tangerine

I knew the discussion would lead to this scenario


Suppose you had a weird dream last night and you decide to share the dream with your friends. You tell them your dream and that is all you can do in fact because it is very personal and of course with no witness. Do your friends ask you for "testable evidence"? No, they won't because the dream itself is untestable. They may believe your dream or call you a liar. If they call you a liar, what would you do? If you don't care, you may say Ok! believe it or not! If you are so determined to make your friends believe what you have dreamed about, you may say OK! I would rather go polygraph. Now things have changed. You don't prove your dream is true because it is untestable, instead you want to prove that you did not lie to your friends. By doing so, they may believe your dream.

It is quite similar when someone claims that he was abducted. What he can do the most is go polygraph if he is so determined to persuade us. However it is you who should find eveidence to prove that he was not abducted but just a kind of illusion. When you use the term "testable evidence" in this scenario it is simply wrong.


You seem to be a bit confused about how this works. The onus is on the one making the positive claim (ie. I was abducted by aliens) to prove his/her claim of fact. It is not the job of someone questioning the claim to disprove it. In fact, it is impossible to prove a negative. A polygraph test would only demonstrate whether the person believed s/he was telling the truth not whether it was the actual truth. I did notice that you didn't offer any testable evidence, whatsoever, to prove that ETs exist, have visited earth and have abducted people. Shall we assume that you are not going to make that claim of fact?


It seems that you don't understand what I was saying at all. In order to set up mutual understanding of what we are talking about so that we can communicate, please answer my following question: Do you dream?

BTW, as far as the existence of extraterrestrials is concerned, not only do I believe there are the ETs visiting our planet, but I have some theories/hypothesis on that such as :www.abovetopsecret.com...


Yes, I dream. Now my question to you is whether you can cite testable evidence proving that ETs have visited earth (unless you're stating it as a belief and not a claim of fact)?


Very well but I am sorry you can't claim that you dream because you can't provide any "testable evidence". Please show me "testable evidence" to prove that you do dream.

As to your question, I do believe that ETs have visited the earth. Then I am going to make some statements in detail:

1. Till now no authority has claimed and showed any evidence of ETs and therefore it is not proved.

2. There are however some evidence of UFOs or other strange phenomenon based on which a hypothesis that ETs may have visited the earth could be built. For me the Nazca lines are such evidence that I can build a hypothesis of ETs based on it.

3. There are some people believe that ETs have visited the earth even though they do not have any evidence or hypothesis just like religion believers. Since it is their free will and I don't see why I should argue that.



posted on Jan, 20 2015 @ 02:27 AM
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They said Operation Mockingbird has ended, but yeah right....

They said human experimentation ended with MK Ultra but yeah right....

They said Project Bluebook ended, but yeah right....

Ad naseum...

Right now I'd be more worried about nut jobs trying to start WW3,
and throw a global Eugenics party for us, but maybe my priorities are off ???



posted on Jan, 20 2015 @ 03:13 AM
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originally posted by: Paperjacket

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: Paperjacket

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: Paperjacket
a reply to: Tangerine

I knew the discussion would lead to this scenario


Suppose you had a weird dream last night and you decide to share the dream with your friends. You tell them your dream and that is all you can do in fact because it is very personal and of course with no witness. Do your friends ask you for "testable evidence"? No, they won't because the dream itself is untestable. They may believe your dream or call you a liar. If they call you a liar, what would you do? If you don't care, you may say Ok! believe it or not! If you are so determined to make your friends believe what you have dreamed about, you may say OK! I would rather go polygraph. Now things have changed. You don't prove your dream is true because it is untestable, instead you want to prove that you did not lie to your friends. By doing so, they may believe your dream.

It is quite similar when someone claims that he was abducted. What he can do the most is go polygraph if he is so determined to persuade us. However it is you who should find eveidence to prove that he was not abducted but just a kind of illusion. When you use the term "testable evidence" in this scenario it is simply wrong.


You seem to be a bit confused about how this works. The onus is on the one making the positive claim (ie. I was abducted by aliens) to prove his/her claim of fact. It is not the job of someone questioning the claim to disprove it. In fact, it is impossible to prove a negative. A polygraph test would only demonstrate whether the person believed s/he was telling the truth not whether it was the actual truth. I did notice that you didn't offer any testable evidence, whatsoever, to prove that ETs exist, have visited earth and have abducted people. Shall we assume that you are not going to make that claim of fact?


It seems that you don't understand what I was saying at all. In order to set up mutual understanding of what we are talking about so that we can communicate, please answer my following question: Do you dream?

BTW, as far as the existence of extraterrestrials is concerned, not only do I believe there are the ETs visiting our planet, but I have some theories/hypothesis on that such as :www.abovetopsecret.com...


Yes, I dream. Now my question to you is whether you can cite testable evidence proving that ETs have visited earth (unless you're stating it as a belief and not a claim of fact)?


Very well but I am sorry you can't claim that you dream because you can't provide any "testable evidence". Please show me "testable evidence" to prove that you do dream.

As to your question, I do believe that ETs have visited the earth. Then I am going to make some statements in detail:

1. Till now no authority has claimed and showed any evidence of ETs and therefore it is not proved.

2. There are however some evidence of UFOs or other strange phenomenon based on which a hypothesis that ETs may have visited the earth could be built. For me the Nazca lines are such evidence that I can build a hypothesis of ETs based on it.

3. There are some people believe that ETs have visited the earth even though they do not have any evidence or hypothesis just like religion believers. Since it is their free will and I don't see why I should argue that.


Sleep studies utilizing electrodes hooked up to monitoring equipment proved that I dream.

A hypothesis isn't proof of anything except that you have a hypothesis. As always, you're welcome to believe anything.
edit on 20-1-2015 by Tangerine because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 20 2015 @ 06:09 AM
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originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: Paperjacket

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: Paperjacket

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: Paperjacket
a reply to: Tangerine

I knew the discussion would lead to this scenario


Suppose you had a weird dream last night and you decide to share the dream with your friends. You tell them your dream and that is all you can do in fact because it is very personal and of course with no witness. Do your friends ask you for "testable evidence"? No, they won't because the dream itself is untestable. They may believe your dream or call you a liar. If they call you a liar, what would you do? If you don't care, you may say Ok! believe it or not! If you are so determined to make your friends believe what you have dreamed about, you may say OK! I would rather go polygraph. Now things have changed. You don't prove your dream is true because it is untestable, instead you want to prove that you did not lie to your friends. By doing so, they may believe your dream.

It is quite similar when someone claims that he was abducted. What he can do the most is go polygraph if he is so determined to persuade us. However it is you who should find eveidence to prove that he was not abducted but just a kind of illusion. When you use the term "testable evidence" in this scenario it is simply wrong.


You seem to be a bit confused about how this works. The onus is on the one making the positive claim (ie. I was abducted by aliens) to prove his/her claim of fact. It is not the job of someone questioning the claim to disprove it. In fact, it is impossible to prove a negative. A polygraph test would only demonstrate whether the person believed s/he was telling the truth not whether it was the actual truth. I did notice that you didn't offer any testable evidence, whatsoever, to prove that ETs exist, have visited earth and have abducted people. Shall we assume that you are not going to make that claim of fact?


It seems that you don't understand what I was saying at all. In order to set up mutual understanding of what we are talking about so that we can communicate, please answer my following question: Do you dream?

BTW, as far as the existence of extraterrestrials is concerned, not only do I believe there are the ETs visiting our planet, but I have some theories/hypothesis on that such as :www.abovetopsecret.com...


Yes, I dream. Now my question to you is whether you can cite testable evidence proving that ETs have visited earth (unless you're stating it as a belief and not a claim of fact)?


Very well but I am sorry you can't claim that you dream because you can't provide any "testable evidence". Please show me "testable evidence" to prove that you do dream.

As to your question, I do believe that ETs have visited the earth. Then I am going to make some statements in detail:

1. Till now no authority has claimed and showed any evidence of ETs and therefore it is not proved.

2. There are however some evidence of UFOs or other strange phenomenon based on which a hypothesis that ETs may have visited the earth could be built. For me the Nazca lines are such evidence that I can build a hypothesis of ETs based on it.

3. There are some people believe that ETs have visited the earth even though they do not have any evidence or hypothesis just like religion believers. Since it is their free will and I don't see why I should argue that.


Sleep studies utilizing electrodes hooked up to monitoring equipment proved that I dream.

A hypothesis isn't proof of anything except that you have a hypothesis. As always, you're welcome to believe anything.


Sleep studies/researches on dreams do not come to the conclusion that you dream, instead that you dream is the precondition. And of course you can not give me any reference to support your claim. Therefore if I follow your logic, you just can't claim that you dream. Weird, isn't it? Do you know why? It is because that not everything can be proved in this world such as feelings or very personal experience with no witness. In this case, you either choose to believe or not to. You just can't ask for "testable evidence" for everything.

I listed our different perception of this world. The first is the fact, the second is the theory/reasoning, the third is the belief. What you are seeking is the fact and you do not need to PROVE a fact but describe or show it. It seems that you choose not to believe the existence of ETs if you can not find the fact. It is totally OK! But if we were limited only to the facts, we would not be called an intelligent species. A theory/hypothesis is set up to prove/provide sophisticated perception of the world in a reasonable way. Therefore you are wrong and theories are exactly used to PROVE something.

My conclusion is:

1. Do not ask for the facts (in your term "testable evidence") of ETs again since till now there is no such fact.
2. You are welcomed to challenge any hypothesis/theory concerned with ETs.
3. You can choose to believe ETs or not to.



posted on Jan, 20 2015 @ 06:34 AM
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a reply to: Paperjacket

If you are equating aliens with dreams, I agree.



posted on Jan, 20 2015 @ 07:58 AM
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originally posted by: ZetaRediculian
a reply to: Paperjacket

If you are equating aliens with dreams, I agree.


Did you follow any logic by saying that?

Yes of course you can claim that aliens equal to dreams. As I have said, it is your free will and I wound not intervene at all. In fact you can claim anything you want and I do not have any problem with that.



posted on Jan, 20 2015 @ 08:45 AM
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a reply to: Paperjacket


Did you follow any logic by saying that?

I think so but I think you unintentionally equated the two. If not, how would you distinguish the two? Then how would you distinguish between abductions and any other psychological phenomenon in the absence of physical testable evidence?



Yes of course you can claim that aliens equal to dreams. As I have said, it is your free will and I wound not intervene at all. In fact you can claim anything you want and I do not have any problem with that.

Thanks, I appreciate that.



posted on Jan, 20 2015 @ 12:05 PM
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originally posted by: Paperjacket
a reply to: Harte



A theory are results deducted through reasoning process based on assumptions and models. Even though Mathematical theories are the most rigorous ones in the field of science and by simply wiki "mathematical theory" you will get a long list, in fact you can still always claim whatever you want such as there are no theories and no assumptions in Mathematics because it is your claim and apparently your free will. I can keep saying A and you can keep saying B and I don't see the end of claims. Since I have made my points clear in several replies and so did you, I will just stop here.

Say what you want, but your list is only the NAMES of various FIELDS of Mathematics, and not theories.

This is what comes from a cursory reading of lists and a total lack of understanding concerning what a theory actually is.

A theory is unproven. A theory cannot be proven.

In Math, if a thing is not proven, it's called a conjecture and if it isn't useful, it's called trash.

Harte



posted on Jan, 20 2015 @ 12:06 PM
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originally posted by: Paperjacket

Very well but I am sorry you can't claim that you dream because you can't provide any "testable evidence". Please show me "testable evidence" to prove that you do dream.

Why should he? You haven't provided any testable evidence that you exist. So, who would he show his evidence to?

Harte



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