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Is there an organized effort to undermine the Aliens and UFOs forum?

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posted on Oct, 25 2014 @ 12:18 AM
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a reply to: Annee

Really Annee? Critical thought combined with courteous, logic presenting, fact based debate is what ATS is all about.

What would you suggest in its stead?

Unabashed agreement with things unfounded or proven patently false is not much fun, is it?
edit on 10-25-2014 by Springer because: (no reason given)




posted on Oct, 25 2014 @ 01:03 AM
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originally posted by: Springer
a reply to: Annee

Really Annee? Critical thought combined with courteous, logic presenting, fact based debate is what ATS is all about.

What would you suggest in its stead?

Unabashed agreement with things unfounded or proven patently false is not much fun, is it?


You can have your facts. Science based on knowledge known. What about what's not known?

Probable/Possible --- logical possibility in what has not been proven. Certainly interesting speculation for discussion. Rather then a door slammed shut.

Just my personal opinion, of course.



. . . Fifteen hundred years ago everybody knew the Earth was the center of the universe. Five hundred years ago, everybody knew the Earth was flat, and fifteen minutes ago, you knew that humans were alone on this planet. Imagine what you'll know tomorrow.







edit on 25-10-2014 by Annee because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 25 2014 @ 01:53 AM
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originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Springer
a reply to: Annee

Really Annee? Critical thought combined with courteous, logic presenting, fact based debate is what ATS is all about.

What would you suggest in its stead?

Unabashed agreement with things unfounded or proven patently false is not much fun, is it?


You can have your facts. Science based on knowledge known. What about what's not known?

Probable/Possible --- logical possibility in what has not been proven. Certainly interesting speculation for discussion. Rather then a door slammed shut.

Just my personal opinion, of course.



. . . Fifteen hundred years ago everybody knew the Earth was the center of the universe. Five hundred years ago, everybody knew the Earth was flat, and fifteen minutes ago, you knew that humans were alone on this planet. Imagine what you'll know tomorrow.








How are asking questions and asking for evidence slamming the door shut? You mentioned "logical possibility" but doesn't that require applying logic to determine the likelihood of the possibility? If you suspect that something exists or is "real" but people point out that it's unlikely due to lack of evidence, doesn't that spur you to delve more deeply in an attempt to prove it? Isn't that how evidence is acquired and new things are discovered?
edit on 25-10-2014 by Tangerine because: typo correction



posted on Oct, 25 2014 @ 02:23 AM
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a reply to: Annee

Maybe we need like a "rainbow" forum or something? I'm not really being facetious. Or general chit chat forum?


edit on 25-10-2014 by The GUT because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 25 2014 @ 02:31 AM
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originally posted by: The GUT
a reply to: Annee

Maybe we need like a "rainbow" forum or something? I'm not really being facetious. Or general chit chat forum?



A rainbow forum. LOL. That's a great name. The subtitle could be "unchallenged speculation".



posted on Oct, 25 2014 @ 04:02 AM
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I think it's hard to question the fact that the government has been very active in disinformation regarding UFOs for decades. I have no reason to believe that that has changed recently. The have the mainstream media pretty much under thumb, so I'd think that a major focus of their efforts in the current day would be internet forums like this one.

In addition to the professional disinformation agents and paid debunkers, there are also a lot of amateur debunkers that show great dedication to the cause of obfuscation and ridicule, presumably for their own psychological satisfaction.

A lot of people are wakening up to the probability that some UFO phenomena likely relate to actual non-terrestrial entities. However, the high ratio of noise to signal makes it impossible for those trying to understand the true scope and nature of extraterrestrial visitation to get beyond speculation.

It's exactly what one would expect from a formal disinformation campaign.

1. Ridicule meant to discourage serious open minded, scientific debate and prevent the subject from gaining credibility.
2. Plausible, (or, often, even highly improbable), alternative explanations, so that those who don't want to believe have an out, no matter how compelling any evidence in favor of the truth might be.
3. Disinformation targeted at open minded individuals and believers, meant to prevent scientific or investigative methods from drawing firm conclusions about the true mature of the phenomena, the players involved and their motivations.

Once you believe, you can tune out most of the debunkery and ignore the ridicule, but separating the truth from the disinformation seems next to impossible.



posted on Oct, 25 2014 @ 05:45 AM
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a reply to: Annee

The trouble is when people are so caught up with the ufo phenomenon some people wont except when they are wrong.

A couple of years ago a member posted a couple of pictures of a claimed ufo one a blur the other a white blob taken with a smart phone while traveling in the back of a truck.

He claimed the pictures were taken on a certain date, the exif date I will be kind here showed he was mistaken!

Anyway it turns out it was a picture of the Moon and when he confirmed the time date direction it could be shown that the Moon was at the correct position, phase and size in his phone images yet he was still in denial!

That's what's good about digital images when you get the exif data still attached to the picture you get a whole lot of information that can be used 99.9% of images posted by mufon etc don't have the exif data attached, now I am not saying they remove it but if someone sends them an image they should request an image with the data intact .

If the data is from a proper camera not phone it's can often be used to work out the depth of field of the pictures to show if out of focus objects were close or far away from the camera.

Now surely if an organization was serious about there subject shouldn't they make sure they have ALL the information they can get ?

Falling back on conspiracy cliches about science etc is just an easy way out.



posted on Oct, 25 2014 @ 06:12 AM
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originally posted by: southbeach
a reply to: wmd_2008

Yeah he may be a loud mouth but his whole show is backed up facts.
That's a really ironic accusation.
It actually epitomizes the 4 D's.
Watch the youtube video i posted and find out the facts rather than attempting character assassination.



You seem to agree he is a loud mouth, he couldn't conduct a debate because his tactic is purely to shout at the other person the guy has serious control issues!



posted on Oct, 25 2014 @ 06:39 AM
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Its obvious that there is a uniformed agreement between nations to debunk any UFO phenomena, the usual excuse is that the public would panic - damn right I would be the first hiding under the duvet then out like a shot once the b--ls had returned to their natural position. I always think that its the human side that hopes aliens would be friendly space explorers but if you can travel space then you have technology and power and probably need slaves, food and perhaps water more than just a chat and even a catch-up.

Surely if a government was in touch with aliens we would see signs of it but by keeping the status quo it doesn't make people think we are weak and aliens coupld pose a real threat rather than benefit with cures for cancer etc.

I have seen a lot of non-related threads to conspiracy on the ATS site though abnd often I look and can't see much I want to read about or comment on. Politics are always going to be rife here because of the conspiracy behind them but some of the threads seem very weak and mundane as though someone is trying to interfere with the conspiracy followers site - perhaps I am wrong but look at some of the topics up over the last few weeks/months?



posted on Oct, 25 2014 @ 06:49 AM
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a reply to: Annee



You can have your facts. Science based on knowledge known. What about what's not known?

Probable/Possible --- logical possibility in what has not been proven. Certainly interesting speculation for discussion. Rather then a door slammed shut.

Just my personal opinion, of course.


Science knows it doesn't know everything; otherwise, it'd stop. But just because science doesn't know everything doesn't mean you can fill in the gaps with whatever fairy tale most appeals to you.
Dara O'Briain


edit on 25/10/14 by Chadwickus because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 25 2014 @ 08:03 AM
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originally posted by: Shiloh7
Its obvious that there is a uniformed agreement between nations to debunk any UFO phenomena, the usual excuse is that the public would panic - damn right I would be the first hiding under the duvet then out like a shot once the b--ls had returned to their natural position. I always think that its the human side that hopes aliens would be friendly space explorers but if you can travel space then you have technology and power and probably need slaves, food and perhaps water more than just a chat and even a catch-up.

Surely if a government was in touch with aliens we would see signs of it but by keeping the status quo it doesn't make people think we are weak and aliens coupld pose a real threat rather than benefit with cures for cancer etc.


I don't see any "obvious" evidence of a uniform agreement between nations to debunk any UFO phenomena. There is some evidence of the topic being covered up by individual agencies, and it's certainly likely that the NATO nations, along with Australia, New Zealand and other Western powers would work closely together. But surely those nations who are anti-Western would not fall in line so easily.

Politicians and governments come and go. We are talking about 200+ sovereign nations all falling in line over agreeing to cover-up "the alien" problem for more than 60 years, along with the aliens themselves. That' an awful lot of people having to be in the know down the years. Even if the information is heavily compartmented it's still a hell of a job kipping the lid on it all. Especially given that governments are also hopeless at keeping secrets.

Some high ranking people like Bill Clinton, Lord Mountbatten (Statesman and a SAC during WWII) , and Lord Hill Norton (a NATO chairman) have all tried to get to the bottom of the UFO issue. Hill-Norton even asked some very awkward questions in the UK parliament about UFOs right up until his death. If these guys couldn't get answers then you have to keep rolling the conspiracy theory and suggest that they were a front to hide the real truth or they were kept in the dark by a shady international cabal that no one has ever been able to prove really exists.

I can't prove there isn't a secret agreement between every nation to maintain a massive cover-up and it's fine to speculate on the topic. But what we do know seems to suggest that our governments don't know everything that goes on in our skies, but they don't want 'us' to know that they aren't in control of the situation.



posted on Oct, 25 2014 @ 09:37 AM
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a reply to: duaneology

Yes, in almost every thread they come and put a negative spinn on everything.
They don't know who is posting the starter thread. Might be someone wanting help and this person start attacking and bullying that person.

Some people simply don't have compassion in their hearts.



posted on Oct, 25 2014 @ 09:44 AM
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originally posted by: spazze
a reply to: duaneology

Yes, in almost every thread they come and put a negative spinn on everything.
They don't know who is posting the starter thread. Might be someone wanting help and this person start attacking and bullying that person.

Some people simply don't have compassion in their hearts.


I respectfully disagree. Most first hand UFO accounts are met with requests for more precise information eg; time and place of sighting, weather conditions, estimates of altitude and so forth. These are the types of questions necessary for scientific investigation. Even when a hoax is suspected, this is how the dialogue will start. Only in the most transparent hoaxes, usually from well known hoaxers, is there any incivility, and it is generally duped member who resorts to name calling first.



posted on Oct, 25 2014 @ 09:58 AM
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originally posted by: The GUT
a reply to: Annee

Maybe we need like a "rainbow" forum or something? I'm not really being facetious. Or general chit chat forum?



I did say Possible/Probable.

I'm not into rainbows, fairies, etc.



posted on Oct, 25 2014 @ 09:59 AM
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originally posted by: spazze
a reply to: duaneology

Yes, in almost every thread they come and put a negative spinn on everything.
They don't know who is posting the starter thread. Might be someone wanting help and this person start attacking and bullying that person.

Some people simply don't have compassion in their hearts.


Negative spin? That is certainly a matter of perspective. I find the most positive contributions the ones where solid information replaces nonsense. Its not "negative" or "bullying" to have a different opinion or to even correct misconceptions.

and I have no compassion for anyone that posts on a forum...once that starts, the PMs start, then we are calling each other and going out for beers and the next thing you know, I'm picking you up off the floor because you are too drunk to stand up on your own and some girl is crying because your not paying enough attention to them...not again. No sir.

Detachment is key
edit on 25-10-2014 by ZetaRediculian because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 25 2014 @ 10:04 AM
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a reply to: spazze

Some people think they are being bullied when the facts start to pull their ideas apart.



posted on Oct, 25 2014 @ 10:38 AM
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a reply to: Annee

I did say Possible/Probable.

I'm not into rainbows, fairies, etc.


Depends where you draw the line at possible. An who is the keeper of that line? Im not sure what you mean by "Possible/Probable". Can you clarify?



posted on Oct, 25 2014 @ 11:29 AM
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originally posted by: ZetaRediculian
a reply to: Annee

I did say Possible/Probable.

I'm not into rainbows, fairies, etc.


Depends where you draw the line at possible. An who is the keeper of that line? Im not sure what you mean by "Possible/Probable". Can you clarify?



Yes I agree. I'm just against the door being slammed shut preventing any discussion.

What is probable? Other planets that support life. What is possible? That that life is humanoid.

What is probable (to me)? That there are off planet humanoids that are more evolved then us. What is possible? That they have visited or monitored earth.



posted on Oct, 25 2014 @ 11:52 AM
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a reply to: Annee

I would argue that those things fall under possible only....but I really don't want to argue at the moment. To me when someone talks about probability, I understand it as a mathematical term used to calculate known (possible) outcomes. As in coin flips, dice, or poker games. Things that are possible, aren't necessarily probable. Like a deck of cards could possibly have an alien card but its not probable since I don't know of any instances of that occurring. There could be a probability, I suppose, but there is no way to calculate it. If the next card is an alien card, I have a little more information. Its no longer just possible, its now a fact but still difficult to calculate (if not impossible) the probability of the next card being an alien card. im going to have more coffee now.



posted on Oct, 25 2014 @ 12:15 PM
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originally posted by: ZetaRediculian
a reply to: Annee

I would argue that those things fall under possible only....but I really don't want to argue at the moment. To me when someone talks about probability, I understand it as a mathematical term used to calculate known (possible) outcomes. As in coin flips, dice, or poker games. Things that are possible, aren't necessarily probable. Like a deck of cards could possibly have an alien card but its not probable since I don't know of any instances of that occurring. There could be a probability, I suppose, but there is no way to calculate it. If the next card is an alien card, I have a little more information. Its no longer just possible, its now a fact but still difficult to calculate (if not impossible) the probability of the next card being an alien card. im going to have more coffee now.



I'm going to agree with you. Perception is always interesting.

Is the Drake Equation science?

IMO - I stated my opinion/perception. I don't think I directly addressed anyone that their opinion/perception is wrong. Nor did I ridicule or present an emotional response.

It is what it is. No argument from me




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