Is there an organized effort to undermine the Aliens and UFOs forum?

a reply to: OrionsGem

seems to me his experiment with the magnets in the rocks would be reproducible by anyone

has anyone repeated it and got the same results that he claims?

originally posted by: aynock
a reply to: OrionsGem

seems to me his experiment with the magnets in the rocks would be reproducible by anyone

has anyone repeated it and got the same results that he claims?

I recall seing several amateur scientists reproducing that on youtube..

OG

a reply to: OrionsGem

got a link?

eta: apologies - off topic for this thread - if you could post some links on the relevant thread that would be great

originally posted by: aynock
a reply to: OrionsGem

got a link?

Dont be lazy! Go and type "counter rotating magnet field" into youtube...there are plenty of vids..

OG

originally posted by: OrionsGem
Go ahead and find one PLAUSIBLE explanation that was put forward by the debunkers...

I don't need to debunk it, but I can put it into a perspective that seems reasonable to me. I think Mr. Bushman is a cool cat and I can only imagine how delighted I'd be to have shared a couple of beers with him.

Being openminded, I might mention him as a side note to some topic where the subject matter might converge, but not without a disclaimer.

I don't doubt he was an engineer of some merit, but someone mentioned a very important word in one of the posts there: Enthusiast. A true blue believer. I wouldn't doubt that he was either shown something by his "contact" or he interpreted stuff in his professional peripheral that reinforced his personal opinion/belief.

I don't totally count out all of his info, but I can't put him on the plus side of "For" without more detail than he provided. A marvelous old gent whose musings are grand and worthy of running my imagination through, but more than that and we do ufology a disservice.

a reply to: OrionsGem

it's not my job to back up your claims - i'll assume there's nothing convincing there - thanks anyway

a reply to: FireMoon
That was awesome my old and wise friend.

It reminds me, I came across an old vid I hadn't seen before--or not these clips--from the set of Close Encounters with Hynek and Spielberg and is more suggestive than I've previously heard and right on track with your thoughts. I'll try and find it...

originally posted by: aynock
a reply to: OrionsGem

it's not my job to back up your claims - i'll assume there's nothing convincing there - thanks anyway

What claims? I said i saw something on youtube a while back with the same experiments, you can go to the relevant thread where I have posted this. No need to be snippy now now have some warm milk dear..

OG

originally posted by: The GUT

originally posted by: OrionsGem
Go ahead and find one PLAUSIBLE explanation that was put forward by the debunkers...

I don't need to debunk it, but I can put it into a perspective that seems reasonable to me. I think Mr. Bushman is a cool cat and I can only imagine how delighted I'd be to have shared a couple of beers with him.

Being openminded, I might mention him as a side note to some topic where the subject matter might converge, but not without a disclaimer.

I don't doubt he was an engineer of some merit, but someone mentioned a very important word in one of the posts there: Enthusiast. A true blue believer. I wouldn't doubt that he was either shown something by his "contact" or he interpreted stuff in his professional peripheral that reinforced his personal opinion/belief.

I don't totally count out all of his info, but I can't put him on the plus side of "For" without more detail than he provided. A marvelous old gent whose musings are grand and worthy of running my imagination through, but more than that and we do ufology a disservice.

I did not ask you to debunk it, Im telling you that the explanations presented in that thread were NOT plausible, hence my proverbial hacking of heads.

OG

originally posted by: Cauliflower

Hynek and Vallee worked for the US government as dis(seminating)information specialists.
I always figured Close Encounters was (also) written to the liking of the aliens?
The official story of the alien exchange hasn't moved much even though we know its a false cover.

I wouldn't say you are totally off base and you make a couple of really good points, but there's a lot more to those two than 'disinformationist' might suggest. You may know all of it cause you seem knowledgeable just by stating that , but it's an interesting area of research for those that haven't followed their stories beyond having read some of their stuff and what's commonly associated with them.

originally posted by: OrionsGem
I did not ask you to debunk it, Im telling you that the explanations presented in that thread were NOT plausible, hence my proverbial hacking of heads.

This is the very gist of much of what we are talking about here. Some fairly intelligent and reasonable folk were offering some very plausible counter-points to consider. Was it Smurfy? He was one of at least two anyway, I found them very polite, but not your response. It further showed, imo, your lack of critical thinking skills in that nothing slowed you down and made you at least go hrrrmmm. Nope, off with the heads. You put great work into some of your threads and I respect the heck out of that.

But I also think you are missing some GREAT opportunities to learn much more than you know now.

originally posted by: Tangerine
a reply to: 111DPKING111

Proof of what, that UFOs exist? The majority of people already agree with that. The area of contention is regarding what they are.

Many of the cases imo, especially the ones I highlighted (like the Belgian Wave and the Westall case) are clearly alien. Honestly it seems like willful ignorance to deny it. But thats ok, it is what it is. Its not like we could do anything about them either way.


www.abovetopsecret.com... - Belgian wave, multiple sitings with military ultimately drawn in
www.abovetopsecret.com... - Westfall UFO case, objects viewed in broad daylight by 200+ students
www.abovetopsecret.com... - JAL 1628 , extended ufo encounter with radar verification.
www.abovetopsecret.com... - Trumball co ufo chase, multiple police officers.

originally posted by: 111DPKING111
Many of the cases imo, especially the ones I highlighted (like the Belgian Wave and the Westall case) are clearly alien. Honestly it seems like willful ignorance to deny it. But thats ok, it is what it is. Its not like we could do anything about them either way.


www.abovetopsecret.com... - Belgian wave, multiple sitings with military ultimately drawn in
www.abovetopsecret.com... - Westfall UFO case, objects viewed in broad daylight by 200+ students
www.abovetopsecret.com... - JAL 1628 , extended ufo encounter with radar verification.
www.abovetopsecret.com... - Trumball co ufo chase, multiple police officers.

Closer than "aliens are conspiring with our government when not in firefights with us" and certainly respectable cases to peruse and come to one's own conclusions.

However, you kind of ruin the impact when you say "especially the ones I highlighted (like the Belgian Wave and the Westall case) are clearly alien."

Could be, but it shows a closed and narrow viewpoint to say "clearly alien."

a reply to: Wolfenz

I'm not sure exactly where you were going with all of that, but that was a lot of cool stuff you shared. Thank You!

originally posted by: The GUT

originally posted by: OrionsGem
I did not ask you to debunk it, Im telling you that the explanations presented in that thread were NOT plausible, hence my proverbial hacking of heads.

This is the very gist of much of what we are talking about here. Some fairly intelligent and reasonable folk were offering some very plausible counter-points to consider. Was it Smurfy? He was one of at least two anyway, I found them very polite, but not your response. It further showed, imo, your lack of critical thinking skills in that nothing slowed you down and made you at least go hrrrmmm. Nope, off with the heads. You put great work into some of your threads and I respect the heck out of that.

But I also think you are missing some GREAT opportunities to learn much more than you know now.

Where are those "very plausible points" you speak of?

So far after over a dozen pages of discussion the best the debunkers can come up with is an alien doll sold on amazon, and screaming hoax. There are differences with the ET pic and the doll clearly showing this 78 year old man is not using a doll purchased from amazon to stage a hoax. Nothing plausible whatsoever. Your god damn right im rude.

OG - aka- Heisenberg

This thread can be summed up in just a few words in my opinion...it boils down to this:

If you scream REAL show us the PROOF!

If you scream HOAX show us the PROOF!

If you don't know and you are speculating DON'T STATE YOUR OPINIONS AS FACT!

I think things would go allot smoother if we followed these guidelines.

OG

If I may be so bold I'd like to share something with people on this thread that I feel is a very salient point.

This last couple of months I've been trying to piece together an article that deals with people's experience of "trolling" , for want of a better term, specifically in Britain however, there are parallels in other countries. Someone whose blog I have read for years, since the outing of Jimmy Savile as mass sexual predator on a level most thought impossible, they have, pretty much, given over their blog to the fall out and investigations that have followed in its' wake. Amongst the highlights or lowlights depending on your perspective, is the recent interview on TV with Norman Tebbit and ex Thatcher minister from the 80s where he openly admits that. In his opinion the chances are that, had there been evidence of high ranking paedophiles then the executive would have considered itself immune from the due process of law and in order to "protect the system" they would have covered up the evidence. In other words, a cabinet minister openly admitting that they would conspire to hide the truth if in the then executive's opinion it was the "best course of action"

Norman tebbit admits to a possible cover up

This one interview destroys the notion that governments do not, at times, indulge in cover ups for reasons that are totally self serving and not in the interest of justice or the victims of horrendous crimes perpetrated by members of the establishment.

I spoke to the blog writer on the phone and told them that, if my experience in the field of Ufology was anything to go by then, they should expect the following to happen. False witnesses coming forward and being given publicity and air time over those genuine victims and at some point, some sort of legal action by someone accused of wrong doing by a shill. I also told them to expect, false witnesses befriending genuine victims and scoping for exact details before falling out with them big time and accusing the real witnesses of telling lies for no more than fiscal gain and country wide publicity . Sadly, I can report exactly that has happened and at least one false witness has told outright lies on camera and now admitted they are actually a fake. We now have a situation where, the chair of the "overarching investigation into child abuse and the authorities attitude to it" has already been replaced as unsuitable, by someone who it turns out, is close personal friend of one of the leading characters suspected of, at least covering the abuse up and at worse, has been accused of being an abuser themselves. It is an open secret that the very same ex cabinet minister escaped prosecution for rape on a legal technicality. That technicality being that, at the time of the offense, the 1960s, the person they raped didn't say no and he can only be prosecuted under the guidelines that existed back in those less enlightened times.

it also has included those people one would term as "insiders" leaking what turns out to be wholly false information that one; further serves to one waste valuable time for those investigating and two; serves to blacken peoples names, certain people holding certain "radical" views, wish to project as targets.

My point is this, I have seen exactly that which has happened with Ufology repeat itself, almost to the detail, with the paedophile issue and that surely says that there is indeed an agenda to belittle and generally cause as much confusion both in the press and online about certain issues the executive does not wish to discuss or investigate in public ?

ATS can actually take pride in knowing that this forum and probably most of the others on this site, causes enough consternation amongst several governments, to have them place a watching brief and hand out "insider info" to those willing to push their side of any issue without the hassle of having to pay them or leave any visible paper trial back to the source.

a reply to: FireMoon

Alex Jones breakdown on how the Government intelligence services work to destroy the whistle blowers courtesy of the Edward Snowden leaks.....the 4 D's.

#1 DENY
#2 DISRUPT
#3 DEGRADE
#4 DECEIVE

The 4 D's should be the standard A.T.S. shill,sock puppet,debunker default test.

www.youtube.com...
Go into about the 30 minute mark on the above video and you will see how effective these tactics are.

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: Wolfenz


The Only thing Close of a Alien Exchange program. was in a Movie Called Close Encounters of the 3rd Kind which IMO Someone knew of Something , within the Movie we have Stanton Friedman , DR ALLAN Hynak , Dr Jacques Vallée In Frame Looking at the Visitors and Observing , The Exchange Program on Hand ! Im Curious to know where they got this Idea From, A Interstellar exchange Program?

You know that Stanton Friedman, J. Allen Hynek and Jacques Vallee didn't write "Close Encounters of the Third Kind", right? Films are written by screenwriters and the ideas usually come from them although it's possible that Spielberg suggested to the screenwriter that some things be included. You do know that actors don't make up their lines, right?

Of course they didn't !, they Technical Advisers ! RIGHT? in which Writers may have to Change The Storyline and Script a bit Right ?

Close Encounters of the 3rd Kind
www.imdb.com...

J. Allen Hynek ... technical advisor (as Dr. J. Allen Hynek)

Ahh Some Do make Up Lines ( Improvise ) Matter of fact ! Steven Spielberg left in The Most Famous Improvised Quote In History! You Need a Bigger Boat!! by Roy Scheider in The Movie Jaws. And Some Directors Encourage it

Like Stanly Kubrick (Full Metal Jacket) & Ridley Scott (Aliens)

Stop Trolling Will Ya !

So this to Me is a Complete Fail on Your Part.

originally posted by: Wolfenz

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: Wolfenz


The Only thing Close of a Alien Exchange program. was in a Movie Called Close Encounters of the 3rd Kind which IMO Someone knew of Something , within the Movie we have Stanton Friedman , DR ALLAN Hynak , Dr Jacques Vallée In Frame Looking at the Visitors and Observing , The Exchange Program on Hand ! Im Curious to know where they got this Idea From, A Interstellar exchange Program?

You know that Stanton Friedman, J. Allen Hynek and Jacques Vallee didn't write "Close Encounters of the Third Kind", right? Films are written by screenwriters and the ideas usually come from them although it's possible that Spielberg suggested to the screenwriter that some things be included. You do know that actors don't make up their lines, right?

Of course they didn't !, they Technical Advisers ! RIGHT? in which Writers may have to Change The Storyline and Script a bit Right ?

Close Encounters of the 3rd Kind
www.imdb.com...

J. Allen Hynek ... technical advisor (as Dr. J. Allen Hynek)

Ahh Some Do make Up Lines ( Improvise ) Matter of fact ! Steven Spielberg left in The Most Famous Improvised Quote In History! You Need a Bigger Boat!! by Roy Scheider in The Movie Jaws. And Some Directors Encourage it

Like Stanly Kubrick (Full Metal Jacket) & Ridley Scott (Aliens)

Stop Trolling Will Ya !

So this to Me is a Complete Fail on Your Part.

Complete Fail Indeed.

OG