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What I’ve Learned About Guns (Part I - Survival)

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posted on Oct, 20 2014 @ 07:47 PM
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I agree with you in the spirit of your reply. These (this thread and the four behind it) are excerpts from a book I was writing that'll never get published. What I know IS dated information, but no one is going to get conflict out of me over their opinion. I thought long and hard before formatting this for ATS.

a reply to: HardCorps


Geese Louse those weapon designs are 60, 70 years old now... For god's sake this is the 21st century ... I mean I like antiques too... hang em on the wall to look at... but when it comes to survival ... are you going to go for the old cap and ball or a Sig P320?


I like new. I like to know replacement parts are available on-demand. I like to know what I'm about to work with has not suffered from abuse or long-term wear. The equipment thread is more focused on new. Still, it's hard to beat most of the proven technology from the last 50 years. Much of what's changed seems simply gimmicky to me. One of these days, I'm gonna give you a chance to talk me into buying a Sig. I've been reading everything I can find on their 229 ... not fully confident yet. -grin-

That 'pocket gun' I mentioned in the OP was a design introducted at least 50 years ago. When I started making enough money to afford a better gift than a knife, this became my engraved gift of choice. Give a functional work of art to a friend and you'll see magic. I know the superstition of handing a coin to anyone who gives you a knife. What do you do when someone makes you a gift of a firearm? LOL




posted on Oct, 20 2014 @ 08:07 PM
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originally posted by: smithjustinb

originally posted by: Snarl

• The fewer moving parts … the greater chance the gun will go bang when you pull the trigger.

This too would seem like common sense to most. But, many people consider bullets moving parts, and when you run out of them, well …

• Simplicity is to your advantage/disadvantage for people who aren’t intimately familiar with shooting … and your choice of firearms.




This is why I don't like the Beretta PX4 storm.


And, I'm also skeptical of the reliability of the Kriss Vector weapons. Although, I think they are cool in concept.
edit on 20-10-2014 by smithjustinb because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 20 2014 @ 08:21 PM
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originally posted by: smithjustinb

originally posted by: Snarl

• The fewer moving parts … the greater chance the gun will go bang when you pull the trigger.

This too would seem like common sense to most. But, many people consider bullets moving parts, and when you run out of them, well …

• Simplicity is to your advantage/disadvantage for people who aren’t intimately familiar with shooting … and your choice of firearms.



This is why I don't like the Beretta PX4 storm.


LOL I wrote Beretta products off some 20 years ago. Obviously, it's not just me, but I also don't knock people who own or carry them. I keep thinking about what follows the words: Fool me once, shame on you ...

-Cheers
edit on 20102014 by Snarl because: Autocorrect



posted on Oct, 21 2014 @ 10:44 AM
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a reply to: Snarl

I'm gonna give you a chance to talk me into buying a Sig. I've been reading everything I can find on their 229 ... not fully confident yet. -grin-


In the Marine Corps, I qualified with the M9 Beretta... really have no options on it other than to say the one they gave me to qualify with ... was long overdue for retirement.
The 229 was my issued carry back when I worked for ICE.
Agents get two choices the Glock in 9mm or the Sig in .40
My choice came down to feel... the Glock felt like a cheap plastic toy and the grip just felt off...

The Sig on the other hand
Natural is the word I use... it just felt natural in the way it fit in my hand and comes easily to sight in a standard weaver ready stance. My choice had nothing to do with the rounds 9 or 40... it was all about feel and I liked the Sig the first time I picked one up.

As for the new 320.... in essence it's a Polymer framed Sig 250... if fact all the parts are interchangeable between the 320 and 250... where things get interesting is the 320 is the first MHS or Modular Handgun System competition. what that means is you can change every feature of the gun...

not just caliber yes you get kits for 9mm, .357 sig, 40 S&W .45 but you can also swap out to a heaver longer barrel for comp shooting, a stubby for CC, ported for recoil control, threaded to fit a suppressor. you can change out the trigger the back straps, just about everything you can imagine you can at home, change to make into your ideal carry, in seconds!

It just doesn't get any better than this.



posted on Oct, 21 2014 @ 07:37 PM
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a reply to: duaneology

Ok...I should have clarified. If I had to go on and on in a world under and after an extreme event...I would want to...if we had to....be able to defend myself and family, and hunt if possible to feed them in a worse-case-scenario.

Most every gun owner has a supply...not TONS...of ammo in case of any unforseen and God-forbid...necessary scenario. Ive come to realize it would be easier to find additional supplies in normal and average caliber rounds. Thats all.

Footnote:
Funny you replied that way, because I share the same thoughts! I was carrying (and sometime still do) a Glock 17-9mm. 17 rounds in the mag. Friends were asking if I carry an extra mag for emergencies. I said "Day to day, and work to home...I'm not looking to get into any running fire-fights! (Although this IS the greater Metro Detroit area here).

An extra mag would mean Im walking around with 34 rounds. Thats way too excessive and not in line with my intent to defend my family, neighbors and myself. Gun battles? Ridiculous, and that just is not "me".

I now carry a 45 ACP caliber with 10 round mag, and no extra one 'in case" I need it. (Although, yes I do have one). I dont leave home without it, and am happy with it size (sub-compact), efficiency (ability at close range to make a successful defensive shot)...and that there is no real need in close handed self-defense to carry extra rounds/mags. At least, not for me.

Thanks for the reply! I hope I explained myself better here?....MS



posted on Oct, 21 2014 @ 08:22 PM
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I guess i am old school.

I carry a old P38 or a 1911 with a 7 inch ported barrel.

My main rifle is a M1 scout rifle.
www.gunandgame.com...
It can reach out 1200 yards with irons or 600 yards with the scope. and i don't care if they are wearing body armor they are going to feel it.

My AR15 is only good to 600 yards if you are lucky. and with body armor they may not even feel it.



posted on Oct, 21 2014 @ 10:42 PM
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Since you put survival in the title I hope you won't mind if I address wilderness survival and firearms a wee bit. Survival brings to mind many different scenarios - as a survivalist you must first plan based on what you estimate your greatest needs to be. Will you be in an area abundant with large game animals and few people or will small game be your only option? Do you anticipate other humans as being potential threats?

Simply because you have a weapon does not mean you will necessarily use it. For getting game trapping is far quieter and productive. Encountering hostile humans will leave you the choice to shoot or not. Generally, it is wiser to NOT shoot but simply to hide and wait for the danger to pass you by. Taking a life should only be done as a last resort and never done simply because you didn't know their intentions. Odds are they are someone like yourself, simply trying to stay alive and not looking to fight. If they are known threat then by all means do what you must to protect yourself and those in your care.

The key to survival is being observant, engaging all your senses at all times and minimizing your activity to leave the least amount of sign of your being there. Seeing the other person first gives you not only the first shot advantage but the option of choosing whether to shoot at all. It's also better to see game first which allows you to take your time drawing a bead on your target.

Camouflage can be your best friend in such a situation and actually works far better against humans than it does on animals. You don't need the newest, fanciest gear from Cabela's in order to effectively conceal yourself. Here's an old thread of mine explaining how and why camouflage works.

Camouflage - how and why it works
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Choosing a firearm

First and foremost you want a reliable weapon, not something that is choosy about how clean it is or what brand ammo you feed it. The ability to survive combat conditions is a great indicator of a good survival weapon. This is why proven military models are always at least a fair choice or better.

What caliber?

Your choice in firearms should be based on whether hunting large game or small, self-defense against hostile humans or any combination thereof. Flexibility is a big plus in a survival situation so any gun suitable for both will be your best bet.
For those inexperienced with firearms the .22 lr is a good choice. There is no recoil making it suitable for women and children to shoot. Ammo is very small and lightweight, allowing you to carry thousands of rounds. While the .22 may have little stopping power a well placed shot or 2 would certainly deter or slow down even the most aggressive enemy and it has been used to take down game as large as deer.

Ammo weight and bulk are a concern, enough so to make me write off any shotgun as a viable weapon for wilderness bug out situation done on foot. Otherwise it is an ideal weapon due to the variety of choices in ammunition available making it possible to bring down anything from doves to deer. It is also a great choice for night and close quarters combat, especially if one does not have night vision gear. If you already have a bug-out location you are certain to go to then get a shotty and stash a few hundred shells at your camp. They are also available in pre-painted camo schemes, saving you the trouble of doing it yourself. Regardless of what weapon you choose you should either paint or wrap it in camo colors.

In a SHTF using common calibers of ammunition allows you a better chance of finding more of the same later on should you need it. That's why I mention .22lr, .223. x 7.62x39 as they are extremely common.

.223 and 7.62x39 are lightweight but still powerful rounds. This is a big reason the AK47 and AR15 are such popular weapons along with a high rate of fire and many aftermarket options. It's not just militia types that choose these rifles, they are popular among all survivalists. Either rifle is suitable for taking big game and as a basic platform are very lightweight and quick to bring to point. The AK can withstand a great deal of abuse and continue functioning while the AR offers greater shot precision and tactical options. Even if you all you have is a Lee Enfield .303 with 20 rounds it's still far better than nothing and even a gun with no bullets might be used to bluff your way out of a bad spot.

To Scope or Not to Scope

Scopes with magnification are great if you're no good with open sights. They can also be helpful in identifying a target. unfortunately they can also be a liability in fluid situations at closer distances due to difficulty in acquiring the target, something done much faster using open sights.
Holographic sights are pretty tough to beat while still allowing for peripheral vision. In the end enough practice with iron sights is probably still your best option unless you can afford a night vision riflescope.

Sidearms/Backup

Can be just as or more important than having a rifle or shotgun in the field. You never know what situations may require you to not appear armed and for close quarters a pistol in anything over .38 cal has significant stopping power. Your most common handgun calibers are 9mm, .357 mag, 44. mag and.45 acp. . Semiauto pistols usually carry 10 or more rounds in their magazine while revolvers generally have 6 chambers to fire before reloading. Reloading a semi auto is also significantly faster than a revolver. The revolver's best attribute is it's ability to withstand abuse and keep working.



posted on Oct, 22 2014 @ 07:36 AM
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a reply to: Asktheanimals

Great post.



posted on Oct, 22 2014 @ 10:12 AM
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a reply to: HardCorps

I had a well written up reply earlier to this post ... and got auto-logged-out again ... Aish!!! I'm gonna need some help with this Mac after these posts are all up.


The Sig on the other hand Natural is the word I use... it just felt natural in the way it fit in my hand and comes easily to sight in a standard weaver ready stance. My choice had nothing to do with the rounds 9 or 40... it was all about feel and I liked the Sig the first time I picked one up.


I've had a chance to run a mag or two through both the 226 and the 229. You're spot on about the way it just fits your hand and finds the target. My Glock just ain't quite like that ... and I don't know if that's good or bad. I am so used to that feel in my grip, I don't know if I want to change it.

Another thing is the Sig's transition from DA to SA. Did you get used to that? One of my favorite targets is the rotating star. With the Sig, I missed either the first or second shot, every time. First one hit ... second one miss. First one miss, second one hit. Over, and over, and over. Pull the Glock ... five in a row, every time.

Maybe I should by the Sig for my daughter, and if I get used to it, I could buy her another!!
Run that by your wife and see if she thinks I'll survive that strategy.

edit on 22102014 by Snarl because: Extra letters



posted on Oct, 22 2014 @ 10:42 AM
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a reply to: Snarl

I was trained to preform what's called a 'Rock and Lock' holster draw.

How you do that is from a thumb break holster you rock the pistol clear and while still at the hip... you take your first shot.. then you keep firing all the way up into your ready stance position.

The reason for the rock and lock is to make the bad guys keep their heads down until your ready to take that aimed controlled shoot.

with that said, that longer harder DA trigger pull is meaningless anyway, so are the next few... it's not until you pick up the sights that your shots will have any accuracy. then having the light SA touch off is real nice...

but like you said... it's what you get used too...

BTW I know what the wife will say already... If you buy a pistol for your daughter... better plan on it staying your daughters... as in, if you ask to borrow it, she'll roll her eyes and ya and tell ya go get your own!



posted on Oct, 22 2014 @ 11:03 AM
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a reply to: mysterioustranger

FYI, the reason to carry an extra mag is two fold and it's not really about carrying more ammo.
1. the magazine is one main components of a SA that can fail and if your spring breaks, the mag is lost (it happens) during a situation, or something happens to jam it, you drop that mag and you have a backup.

2. once you've 'solved' the situation, you're now standing there with an empty gun if you've shot all your rounds. i know that most things are solved with 3-5 rounds, but the point is, if you do empty the mag, now you have no bullets for the ride home.

So, spare mag for backup, malfunctions, tactical reload, and refresh. It's not just/only about the bullet count. HTH



posted on Oct, 22 2014 @ 11:11 AM
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a reply to: Maverick7

if you wear a shoulder rig...
having a pair of Mags on the off hand side helps balance the weight...
a little bit anyway...



posted on Oct, 22 2014 @ 11:17 AM
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a reply to: Maverick7

For clarity's sake when you write SA you mean Semi-auto as opposed to single action.
(don't want to get peeps confused moreso than they might already be)



posted on Oct, 22 2014 @ 11:41 AM
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a reply to: Asktheanimals

In light of not confusing the new peep's

the debate over SA single action and DA double action... has to do with the length and weight of the trigger pull...

Simply put a DA double action... has to cock the hammer then release it... say 5 to 7 pounds, and a longer pull on the trigger... say 5 to 7 pounds on average to accomplish said task...

SA single action means the hammer is already cocked back so all the trigger has to do it let it fall... A much simpler operation that involves fewer moving parts thus giving a lighter trigger pull say around 2 to 3 pounds of force needed...

So with DA pistols the first shot has a hard trigger pull first shot... all subsequent shots are single action... since the slide re-cocks the hammer...

So you get one long hard pull, then shorter lighter pulls... and that difference makes some shooters... Uncomfortable, is the word I want to use...

Granted my own accuracy is way better with the SA trigger... shorter travel means less jitter... but having the option of that first round in a DA... is worlds faster the racking the slide before taking that first shot...again it's all about preferences and how you were trained.



posted on Oct, 23 2014 @ 08:34 PM
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a reply to: Maverick7

Yes, I do understand the reasoning behind the extra mag. I do carry one in the car....I know it wont do me any good if the main jams and Im not where it is!




posted on Oct, 27 2014 @ 02:12 PM
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If I might chime in, my biggest pet peeve is "stopping power"

It's a completely made up term like assault weapons and isn't provable by any means.

9mm, .45, .44, .380, .22lr

These will all kill you equally if you get shot in the heart, brain, or critical artery. They will however, not kill you as quick as a rifle round.

I feel the same with all the other buzzwords like "wound ballistics" or "terminal wound void" or the 1000 other words out there.
When choosing a firearm to use, I only need to know if it's reliable, accurate, and bigger than .17HMR

So when I read about all of these high speed low drag AR builds that are out there, all I can think to myself is
You use your 3,000 dollar AR all you want. A 200 dollar .22 rifle will still kill you just as dead and for a lot less money.



posted on Oct, 27 2014 @ 04:48 PM
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originally posted by: mrpotatoe27
If I might chime in, my biggest pet peeve is "stopping power"

It's a completely made up term like assault weapons and isn't provable by any means.

9mm, .45, .44, .380, .22lr

These will all kill you equally if you get shot in the heart, brain, or critical artery. They will however, not kill you as quick as a rifle round.

I feel the same with all the other buzzwords like "wound ballistics" or "terminal wound void" or the 1000 other words out there.
When choosing a firearm to use, I only need to know if it's reliable, accurate, and bigger than .17HMR

So when I read about all of these high speed low drag AR builds that are out there, all I can think to myself is
You use your 3,000 dollar AR all you want. A 200 dollar .22 rifle will still kill you just as dead and for a lot less money.



Such a great post it deserves to be starred and quoted.

So I did :-)



posted on Oct, 27 2014 @ 06:24 PM
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a reply to: mrpotatoe27


If I might chime in, my biggest pet peeve is "stopping power"

It's a completely made up term like assault weapons and isn't provable by any means.


If you were strictly limited to handguns, and you were left with a choice between a .22 and a 10mm, I've got a guess as to which you'd choose if a grizzly bear stood 30 yards away from you. Same diff with a choice between a 10/22 and a semi-auto .308.

Now that that's outta the way, we can agree that 'stopping power' is relative in its meaning.


Who's trying to sell you an AR for three grand? That guy either thinks you're stoopid, or he doesn't want to sell you a gun. The gun culture takes some getting used to ... but, totally ripping someone off is un-neighborly.



posted on Oct, 27 2014 @ 06:57 PM
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originally posted by: mrpotatoe27

You use your 3,000 dollar AR all you want. A 200 dollar .22 rifle will still kill you just as dead and for a lot less money.


Yeah it will. But, a .308 hitting anywhere around your chest, or even stomach, will kill you. Whereas, a .22 has to be closer to the heart. The shock wave of the bullet is much smaller.



posted on Oct, 27 2014 @ 11:53 PM
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a reply to: Snarl

Damn straight I'll take a 10 mil over a .22

I see three grand rifles everywhere. They put a nice barrel in, slap on some rails, and maybe a nice trigger, and boom, $600 rifle gets 2 grand added to it because of the brand.

Okay, maybe there is a little truth to stopping power, but you're comparing a deer gun to a varmit gun. Different tools, different situations.

The rule of thumb I've picked up from listening to old timers is that if it'll kill a deer, it'll kill a man.

Which makes no sense as to why certain .22 caliber weapons are illegal but I can buy a .458 Win Mag or a .416 Barrett that'll go through everything but Level IV body armor at 300 yards. Because hunting rifles are never used for anything but hunting.

Then again, the people that make those laws have probably never seen what a hunting rifle will do to someone up close and personal now have they?




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