Government to Ordained Ministers: Celebrate Same-Sex Wedding or Go to Jail

I was refused by a few preachers in my area to marry my wife and I because I had been married before. Would this fall under discrimination as well?
..sorry..I was reading all this and it got my mind wandering to places that don't always make the most sense. I just got to wondering how far this can be taken. i mean, say I run a store that sells all kinds of....adult magazines bot refuse gay porn. I wouldn't have moral high ground to stand on but is it within my rights as a business owner.

There are all kinds of people that will marry same sex couples. I don't understand why this place has to be the one that does it. It kind of has a rub your nose in it kind of feel to me. I'm sure this has to do with some deep seated bigotry that I'm not aware of. I just don't like the government having any say in marriage period. But for me a marriage is more something that deals with the couples personal flavor of dogma. In all reality though when you buy that license you are already married once it's signed and witnessed (in my state anyway). So the ceremony is just a floor show in all reality.

By the way..My stance on gay marriage is I don't think I'd like it. So I didn't marry a gay guy. Kind of figured my rights stopped there on the whole issue. I do find it odd though that I was able to be refused by more than one churches preacher for being married before and I'm sure that's just OK. Maybe I should have forced the issue but it seemed dumb. I wouldn't want to be married by someone that didn't want to do it. Kind of deflates the love balloon for me.

originally posted by: DrumJunkie
I was refused by a few preachers in my area to marry my wife and I because I had been married before. Would this fall under discrimination as well?

No legitimate minister/preacher is required to marry anyone in the USA -- period!

That is not what this is about.

This is about a for profit business that performed weddings. If you do weddings, you do weddings for everyone.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: DrumJunkie
I was refused by a few preachers in my area to marry my wife and I because I had been married before. Would this fall under discrimination as well?

No legitimate minister/preacher is required to marry anyone in the USA -- period!

That is not what this is about.

This is about a for profit business that performed weddings. If you do weddings, you do weddings for everyone.

I absolutely, wholeheartedly agree. If a mother wants to marry her son, she has a Constitutional right to do so. Same goes for if a brother wants to marry his sister. Hell, who has the right to tell me I can't marry a consenting 10 year old girl for chrissakes!!! those crazy Bible thumpers that ate my precious spaghetti monster?!!! If you want to marry your laptop, or even your living room furniture, you have that right!!!

Right on man .. you preach it bro!

originally posted by: GeisterFahrer

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: DrumJunkie
I was refused by a few preachers in my area to marry my wife and I because I had been married before. Would this fall under discrimination as well?

No legitimate minister/preacher is required to marry anyone in the USA -- period!

That is not what this is about.

This is about a for profit business that performed weddings. If you do weddings, you do weddings for everyone.

I absolutely, wholeheartedly agree. If a mother wants to marry her son, she has a Constitutional right to do so. Same goes for if a brother wants to marry his sister. Hell, who has the right to tell me I can't marry a consenting 10 year old girl for chrissakes!!! those crazy Bible thumpers that ate my precious spaghetti monster?!!! If you want to marry your laptop, or even your living room furniture, you have that right!!!

Right on man .. you preach it bro!

Did I forget to say legal marriage?

With legal consent, of course.

a reply to: DrumJunkie

You were refused by various preachers because you were (apparently) seeking a religious service not a for-profit one. These were churches? I'm assuming. Churches are not public accommodations. If the guys or the gals who went in to get married were requesting a purely religious service, and the given religious institution didn't want to provide that, they don't have to, no victim no crime. If you put out a shingle for a marryin' business, then you (the business) has to do the marryin' when members of the public come in and offer your price.

No shopkeeper has to offer any certain kind of product for sale (your example of gay porn). However, if they offer porn for sale, gay or otherwise, they can't choose to sell to one adult and not another. Marriage is marriage in Idaho. There aren't different categories of marriage, there aren't "different products" based on the sexes of those getting married.

I like your sentiment in your last paragraph, I've often said if you don't believe in same-sex marriage then don't marry someone of your same sex. Easy peasy.

a reply to: GeisterFahrer

Problem is, due to the extraordinary possibility of seriously genetically flawed offspring, marriages between close relatives (incest) is illegal in this country.

A ten-year old cannot consent to marriage, that's why it's illegal.

A laptop or couch cannot consent to marriage, that's why it's an utterly asinine and petulant example.

originally posted by: Annee
This is about a for profit business that performed weddings.
If you do weddings, you do weddings for everyone.

No I don't for 'everyone', *sigh*
And by force defeats the purpose.

I make custom made clothing for women and children ONLY
as a profit business, I will NOT change my choice of clientele
Other examples that are a fail to force against their personal will:
ministers/priests
sex workers
male midwives (fail)
male mammogram technicians (fail)
escorts
massage therapists
choice of nannies
barbers
tailors
brides gown fitters ex . . .
private schools eg. all male/female
There is a long list, . . .
We all have a rights, just because some
feel they don't will no change the fact.


The mayor is free to marry them if he so much likes to.

btw From the op story :

A week of honoring their faith and declining to perform the ceremony
could cost the couple three and a half years in jail and $7,000 in fines.

Forcing people to change their faith is ethically criminal and a good way
to make enemies.The ministers did NOT force the gays to change their belief,
like wise the gays should NOT FORCE others to change their life style.
Those that demand others to change are the worst hypocrites around.

a reply to: ToneDeaf

All those businesses you mentioned have legitimate reasons for valid discrimination. If you only know how to cut men's hair you wouldn't do women's hair and no one would ask. If you make children's clothes you can't be forced to make adult clothes. If a black child comes in and you say you don't know how to make black kid clothes, good luck with that

originally posted by: ToneDeaf

I make custom made clothing for women and children ONLY
as a profit business, I will NOT change my choice of clientele

So, you make clothes for lesbians.

If you have a store business, in an area that has an anti-discrimination law, that includes LGBT --- you could not refuse to sell your clothes to a lesbian, if your clothes fit her.

If you sell clothes to women, you sell clothes to all women that fit your clothes.

originally posted by: ToneDeaf

Forcing people to change their faith is ethically criminal and a good way
to make enemies.The ministers did NOT force the gays to change their belief,
like wise the gays should NOT FORCE others to change their life style.
Those that demand others to change are the worst hypocrites around.

The husband/wife ministers were not forced to marry anyone. But, their for profit business was required by law not to discriminate. They could have hired someone else to perform same sex marriages.

Homosexual/heterosexual are both orientations, neither is a belief.

Lifestyle is how you choose to live your life, like: career, how you dress, what kind of car you drive, what foods you like, do you like rock music or classical, etc.

originally posted by: [post=18652570]Annee[

that includes LGBT --- you could not refuse

I custom design clothes for females not gents. End of story.
There is absolutely nothing to argue about, just accept it.
As for anyone else and their private sex life, I will not be forced to care
nor listen, tell it to your mother if she wishes to listen.

originally posted by: ToneDeaf

originally posted by: [post=18652570]Annee[

that includes LGBT --- you could not refuse

I custom design clothes for females not gents. End of story.
There is absolutely nothing to argue about, just accept it.
As for anyone else and their private sex life, I will not be forced to care
nor listen, tell it to your mother if she wishes to listen.

Where did I say anything about you designing clothes for gents?

So, you're suggesting LGBT and straights force people to listen to them talk about their sex lives?

My mother is dead, she had Cancer.

a reply to: ToneDeaf

Are you saying you wouldn't sell your woman's and children's clothing to a man?

Ministers and priests are not generally in a for-profit business, at least, by definition in this country.

Sex work is illegal everywhere except for a few locations.

Are you saying you think there are no male midwives or lab techs?

Escorts (again, technically illegal, see sex workers)

Massage therapists, if they serve the public, do not pick and choose their clients.

Etc.

If they have a public business, then they serve the public.

Yes, we do all have rights. We have the right to be treated equally.

You can't hide behind "your faith" if you are in a public business. No one was asked to give up "their faith" they were just asked to perform their trade which they have offered to the public for sale.

Being gay is not a "belief."

No one is asking anyone to change, merely to do their jobs.

originally posted by: [post=18652615]ToneDeaf
I custom design clothes for females

As in complimenting the female stature and femininity.
If someone requests or expects otherwise then accommodating
them will not be possible. Inconvenience is just that, an inconvenience
laughable to be considered a 'crime'.

a reply to: ToneDeaf

But you would sell your clothes as created to a man, right?

You're not saying you'd refuse to sell to about half the population, right?

In the issue considered in the OP, no one is talking about inconvenience, we're talking about denying services in a public accommodation.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
Being gay is not a "belief."

Only having female organs, but believing that you are a male
is just that.
But then, the same people want to make personal religious beliefs
a crime go figure *sigh*
So much for human rights

.........................

originally posted by: ToneDeaf

originally posted by: Gryphon66
Being gay is not a "belief."

Only having female organs, but believing that you are a male
is just that.

No.

That's Transgender.

originally posted by: ToneDeaf

originally posted by: Gryphon66
Being gay is not a "belief."

Only having female organs, but believing that you are a male
is just that.
But then the same people want to make religious beliefs a crime go figure *sigh*
So much for human 'rights'

.........................

originally posted by: ToneDeaf

originally posted by: Gryphon66
Being gay is not a "belief."

Only having female organs, but believing that you are a male
is just that.
But then, some people want to make beliefs a crime go figure *sigh*
So much for human rights and 'equality'

.........................

No one wants to make beliefs a crime. People are required to obey the law and do their jobs.

Being born into a female body and believing you are male is complex, I'll admit (and that's trans* not gay), but that's certainly not as hard to believe as a man walking on water or bringing the dead back to life.

THAT requires a level of reality-countering belief unheard of by any gay, bi or trans* man OR woman.

No. That's Transgender.

Only the obsessed would care

. . . . I'm out of here