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Government to Ordained Ministers: Celebrate Same-Sex Wedding or Go to Jail

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posted on Oct, 20 2014 @ 04:30 PM
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For anyone who is still having trouble with this issue - these two 'ministers' want to buy groceries. They attempt to buy from the local store and are denied because of their status as religious nutters. This isn't legal and it's also ethically dubious.

That right there is the crux of this whole kerfuffle.




posted on Oct, 20 2014 @ 04:30 PM
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a reply to: tadaman

Did you compare the situation (that you perceive, at least) with gays accepting what they've gotten to the IRA accepting the deal that it was offered by the UK? You're right, how in the world would anyone see a connection in your thought process there?

Did I put words in your mouth? Did you use the exact comparison I just restated or not? If you did not, I will apologize to you and retract my statement ... on your word only. Say you didn't say it and you have my apology.

Wow, you ARE being honest, aren't you? To wit:


originally posted by: tadaman

EDIT TO ADD:
You know what, press on. I will be happy to write to my local representative and everyone humanly possible with a list of every single example of unconstitutionality I can humanly come up with and out of hundreds a few or even just one will make it to the right people to be the thorns in your side I am trying to avoid for all. We have friends too buddy. We are not some isolated hicks. I will talk to everyone from Scientologists, Mormons, and LDS to reactionary christian groups and I guarantee you I will provide fuel for the fire. This is the US remember and we do have the bible belt with billions in financial and political heavy weights. If you are going to be unreasonable you deserve for people to oppose you on principle.



So, if I "press on" pointing out what the laws of Idaho are, you're going to ... do everything in your power to try to find something to threaten (is it just me or all gays everywhere?) me/us somehow anyhow with? You're going to assemble a Crusade against folks trying to support the rule of law?

If you're not joking, or being dramatic for effect, you really need to get away from this for a while, because frankly, you sound ridiculous.

If you feel the same way when you come back, I say go for it! Give your Great Crusade your best shot! Your "side" has been doing everything it can for hundreds of years to keep us as second class citizens at best, and criminals or psychotics at worst.

I've been kissin' boys right in the middle of the buckle of that Bible Belt for 50 years, and brother, your threats scare me about as much as flatulence on Friday night ... actually, the flatulence scares me more.


edit on 16Mon, 20 Oct 2014 16:41:02 -050014p0420141066 by Gryphon66 because: Left out a bracket thingy, my bad



posted on Oct, 20 2014 @ 04:31 PM
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originally posted by: macman
I own my business. It is mine. Not yours. I get to determine who I deal with.
See, in my business, I don't have to give a reason to anyone why I choose to not deal or sell to them.
So.....


So then it should be perfectly acceptable and legal for you to display this sign then:




posted on Oct, 20 2014 @ 04:37 PM
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originally posted by: beezzer
Linky


For years, those in favor of same-sex marriage have argued that all Americans should be free to live as they choose. And yet in countless cases, the government has coerced those who simply wish to be free to live in accordance with their belief that marriage is the union of a man and a woman.


Ministers face a 180-day jail term and $1,000 fine for each day they decline to celebrate the same-sex wedding.

Just this weekend, a case has arisen in Idaho, where city officials have told ordained ministers they have to celebrate same-sex weddings or face fines and jail time.


Most who have read my posts know that I have no issue with gay marriage. But this is what many have warned about.

This is the PC over-reach, telling faith-based organizations what to believe and how to act.

I look forward to seeing everyone condemn the acts of government in this and support the ministers, regardless of their faith.

As always, read, reply, ignore or eat raw meat on the subway. It is always up to you.


If this is real, this is just WRONG. Personally, I have nothing against Gays or same-sex marriage, but forcing people to do things against their religious beliefs is wrong. This is a violation of freedom of religion.

Fair-minded Gays should be outrage by this too. You may not agree with their religious beliefs, but they have a right to believe what they want. They also have a right to pursue their chosen professions (whether it's running a marriage chapel or a bakery) according to those religious beliefs.

That Gay couple can easily find someone else to marry them.



posted on Oct, 20 2014 @ 04:38 PM
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originally posted by: SomePeople
For anyone who is still having trouble with this issue - these two 'ministers' want to buy groceries. They attempt to buy from the local store and are denied because of their status as religious nutters. This isn't legal and it's also ethically dubious.

That right there is the crux of this whole kerfuffle.


Imagine if I as an atheist owned a store across from the Knapps.

They come in and I tell them "I'm not going to sell to you because of my (non) religious beliefs."

"I don't support Christians in any way, shape, form or fashion, including satisfying their Moon Pie and RC Cola fetishes."

Can you imagine the hue and cry?

ATHEIST WANTS TO STARVE ALL CHRISTIANS EVERYWHERE!

HOMOSEXUAL DENIES VITAL SUGAR PRODUCTS TO REGULATE CHRISTIAN BLOOD GLUCOSE LEVELS!

THE HOMOSEXUAL ATHEIST AGENDA TO SILENCE CHRISTIANS ONE JUNK FOOD JUNKIE AT A TIME!

Oh the humanity!



posted on Oct, 20 2014 @ 04:56 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Dfairlite

They would have to make themselves a private "Heterosexual Ceremonies Club" and stop acting like a public business.

Show me the Mormon store you're talking about; let's deal with facts rather than "what if this were true."


I don't think you understand hypotheticals... there is no store, it was pretend store, a hypothetical store.



posted on Oct, 20 2014 @ 05:01 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: SomePeople
For anyone who is still having trouble with this issue - these two 'ministers' want to buy groceries. They attempt to buy from the local store and are denied because of their status as religious nutters. This isn't legal and it's also ethically dubious.

That right there is the crux of this whole kerfuffle.


Imagine if I as an atheist owned a store across from the Knapps.

They come in and I tell them "I'm not going to sell to you because of my (non) religious beliefs."

"I don't support Christians in any way, shape, form or fashion, including satisfying their Moon Pie and RC Cola fetishes."

Can you imagine the hue and cry?

ATHEIST WANTS TO STARVE ALL CHRISTIANS EVERYWHERE!

HOMOSEXUAL DENIES VITAL SUGAR PRODUCTS TO REGULATE CHRISTIAN BLOOD GLUCOSE LEVELS!

THE HOMOSEXUAL ATHEIST AGENDA TO SILENCE CHRISTIANS ONE JUNK FOOD JUNKIE AT A TIME!

Oh the humanity!


I'd be OK with that. You shouldn't have to serve people you don't want to serve (conversely, I don't want to be served by someone who does not want to serve me). The market will take care of you. If there is enough demand for anti-christian treats, you'll be fine. If there is not, you'll go out of business or change your policy. The idea that the government should enforce "tolerance" is absolutely absurd.



posted on Oct, 20 2014 @ 05:03 PM
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a reply to: Gryphon66
oh great use of Alinsky tools, I have to hand it to you.



posted on Oct, 20 2014 @ 05:04 PM
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a reply to: Dfairlite

I understand hypotheticals just fine Dfairlite.

Your hypothetical was merely open-ended and approaching the absurd in my opinion:

If a Mormon shop owner didn't carry the products that his customers desired to buy, he/she wouldn't be a shop owner for long.

If a Mormon shop owner doesn't carry a certain product, the laws of public accommodation do not force them to carry a product.

But, since you insist I'll play:

What if the Mormon shop owner prayed and Heavenly Father sent down angels to watch the store?

What if the Mormon shop owner travelled in time and made sure that Prohibition was never repealed?

What if the Mormon shop owner is really a KGB plant and kills everyone in town with his super-secret-agent-assassin skills?



posted on Oct, 20 2014 @ 05:04 PM
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I also wonder if this affects the p*rn studios. I mean, they provide p*rn so shouldn't they have to provide homosexuals their flavor?



posted on Oct, 20 2014 @ 05:06 PM
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a reply to: Dfairlite

The government is not enforcing tolerance, that would be a fool's game, as this thread makes obvious.

The government is enforcing the laws of Idaho regarding discrimination and marriage and public accomdation.



posted on Oct, 20 2014 @ 05:07 PM
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originally posted by: ThirdEyeofHorus
a reply to: Gryphon66
oh great use of Alinsky tools, I have to hand it to you.



Oh good. Alinsky.

I lost the bet; I put my money on Macman being the first to bring that BS in.



posted on Oct, 20 2014 @ 05:11 PM
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originally posted by: Dfairlite
I also wonder if this affects the p*rn studios. I mean, they provide p*rn so shouldn't they have to provide homosexuals their flavor?


Is this a really arcane joke, somehow, or just hopelessly innocent?

Why don't you try typing that subject into your favorite search engine and see if you, er, come up with anything ...



posted on Oct, 20 2014 @ 05:12 PM
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a reply to: Dfairlite

I really don't think you understand the issue here. If a porn studio or dealer is selling porn, they can't say, We won't sell you a porn video because you're gay, black, Jewish, a woman, disabled, or any other protected class.

If a Mormon is selling beverages, whatever beverage they choose to sell, they can't say I won't sell to you because you're black, female, gay, etc.

I hope that clears things up.



posted on Oct, 20 2014 @ 05:13 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Dfairlite

The government is not enforcing tolerance, that would be a fool's game, as this thread makes obvious.

The government is enforcing the laws of Idaho regarding discrimination and marriage and public accomdation.


LOL, really? they're not enforcing tolerance, they're enforcing the laws!? The laws mandating tolerance. Oh darn... but good try. TBH, I think you may be losing your mind.



posted on Oct, 20 2014 @ 05:14 PM
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I'm just wondering - would these 'ministers' marry a couple who are both gay, but are male and female?



posted on Oct, 20 2014 @ 05:17 PM
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originally posted by: Dfairlite

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Dfairlite

The government is not enforcing tolerance, that would be a fool's game, as this thread makes obvious.

The government is enforcing the laws of Idaho regarding discrimination and marriage and public accomdation.


LOL, really? they're not enforcing tolerance, they're enforcing the laws!? The laws mandating tolerance. Oh darn... but good try. TBH, I think you may be losing your mind.


Perhaps you'll favor the insane then with a quote from a law in Idaho that mentions "mandated tolerance."

Marriage is legal for different sexed and same sexed couples now, in Idaho.

Hitching Post is a business which provides marriages to the public.

Idaho has a law forbidding discrimination against homosexual citizens.

That's the law being enforced.



posted on Oct, 20 2014 @ 05:17 PM
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originally posted by: windword
a reply to: Dfairlite

I really don't think you understand the issue here. If a porn studio or dealer is selling porn, they can't say, We won't sell you a porn video because you're gay, black, Jewish, a woman, disabled, or any other protected class.

If a Mormon is selling beverages, whatever beverage they choose to sell, they can't say I won't sell to you because you're black, female, gay, etc.

I hope that clears things up.





You finally understand my point. The chapel is selling wedding services. All they need to do is make their wedding services exclusive to a man and a woman and presto, now they're selling a product that doesn't fit gays. sure, they can go through the chapel, but they will be called man and wife, they will have a man and woman on top of their cake and they will say you can now kiss the bride. And they can make it even more prominent if they like.

These people need to stop selling one size fits all, they need to sell only medium. That solves the issue. The state can't force them to sell a different product.



posted on Oct, 20 2014 @ 05:19 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: Dfairlite

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Dfairlite

The government is not enforcing tolerance, that would be a fool's game, as this thread makes obvious.

The government is enforcing the laws of Idaho regarding discrimination and marriage and public accomdation.


LOL, really? they're not enforcing tolerance, they're enforcing the laws!? The laws mandating tolerance. Oh darn... but good try. TBH, I think you may be losing your mind.


Perhaps you'll favor the insane then with a quote from a law in Idaho that mentions "mandated tolerance."

Marriage is legal for different sexed and same sexed couples now, in Idaho.

Hitching Post is a business which provides marriages to the public.

Idaho has a law forbidding discrimination against homosexual citizens.

That's the law being enforced.


Weddings are a product being sold, for a profit. The marriage license issued by the state is all one needs to be married. You don't have to go to a chapel. The chapel isn't denying them the opportunity to be married.
edit on 20-10-2014 by Dfairlite because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 20 2014 @ 05:21 PM
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a reply to: Dfairlite

No, the chapel is just saying, "sorry, this place isn't for you darkies".

That is what the chapel is saying.



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