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Government to Ordained Ministers: Celebrate Same-Sex Wedding or Go to Jail

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posted on Oct, 20 2014 @ 03:54 PM
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a reply to: Dfairlite

Just open a private club and only advertise to your church; that solves all your problems!

Of course, you may not be in business long, but, god's will be done.




posted on Oct, 20 2014 @ 03:54 PM
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Let me pose a question for those in favor of forcing businesses to allow homosexual unions on their property or personally perform said unions. Mormons don't drink alcohol, should they be forced to carry it in their stores and allow it's consumption on their premises?



posted on Oct, 20 2014 @ 03:56 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Dfairlite

Just open a private club and only advertise to your church; that solves all your problems!

Of course, you may not be in business long, but, god's will be done.


What is the difference between a private club and a regular business? Why can one discriminate and the other not? I understand what you're trying to say but it fails, look at the elks club.

I prefer my pricing strategy.
edit on 20-10-2014 by Dfairlite because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 20 2014 @ 03:57 PM
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originally posted by: Dfairlite

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Dfairlite

Just open a private club and only advertise to your church; that solves all your problems!

Of course, you may not be in business long, but, god's will be done.


What is the difference between a private club and a regular business? Why can one discriminate and the other not? I understand what you're trying to say but it fails, look at the elks club.


It does not fail.

Google "public accommodation" and get back to me.



posted on Oct, 20 2014 @ 03:59 PM
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a reply to: Gryphon66

Dude that was the longest post allowed by ATS. Did you only see the IRA example and not what I was trying to say?

What if I used another example? Would you still say that. I have seen you tell people not to put words in your mouth.

Please extend me the same courtesy. I think I deserve that much. I did hear you out and responded honestly to you.

Dont let me down.

You dont have to agree, but dont insult my intelligence.

EDIT TO ADD:
You know what, press on. I will be happy to write to my local representative and everyone humanly possible with a list of every single example of unconstitutionality I can humanly come up with and out of hundreds a few or even just one will make it to the right people to be the thorns in your side I am trying to avoid for all. We have friends too buddy. We are not some isolated hicks. I will talk to everyone from Scientologists, Mormons, and LDS to reactionary christian groups and I guarantee you I will provide fuel for the fire. This is the US remember and we do have the bible belt with billions in financial and political heavy weights. If you are going to be unreasonable you deserve for people to oppose you on principle.

I can become a foot soldier or just a guy trying to reason with you. I will do what ever I think of coarse, but dont prove me wrong about the people behind gay progressive culture. I thought it wasnt going to be like this. I will tell you this also, your perceived acceptance doesnt mean a damn to me when threatening the laws of our country. You think this is ok just because its morally justifiable? I dont care. Legally speaking this is illegal and the weak ass arguments presented thus far wont hold water like those for slavery did and then didnt respectfully. Not morality, reason and law are what makes this country go round.

You draw the line, we WILL cross it. It can be like that or you can reason. You arent going to bully people around based on your justifications or morality alone.


edit on 10 20 2014 by tadaman because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 20 2014 @ 03:59 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66


Nope, no business owner has had the right to illegally discriminate in the US in over 60 years, so you haven't "loosed" any rights at all.

So..the lose of rights now or 60 years ago is still a lose of rights.


originally posted by: Gryphon66

Business owners must follow the same laws as the rest of us.

Oh, so you can't discriminate from someone coming into your house???
Or not be friends with someone due to race or what have you??

Love the thought police action here. Brown shirts must be right around the corner.


originally posted by: Gryphon66
Gotta love the Regressive way of thinking. Cry about government interference and special interest groups and then insist that the government treat you as a special interest group that is above the laws the rest of us are subject to.

Gotta love it when Progressives twist words from something that was never stated.
No one asked for a special interest group for such a thing. The Govt should be abiding by the Constitution, and not pressing the current way of thinking onto others.

I own my business. It is mine. Not yours. I get to determine who I deal with.
See, in my business, I don't have to give a reason to anyone why I choose to not deal or sell to them.
So.....


originally posted by: Gryphon66
There's actually a well-accepted term for that you know; intolerance of intolerance is called justice, Mac.


Yeah, only in the Progressive Fairy Land is forcing someone to accept your own views, looked upon as justice on the intolerant.

So, your bias is basically that, which forces others to accept what you think.
Certainly nothing wrong with that, from your stance. Because, we can't have people not thinking or acting the way which you do.



posted on Oct, 20 2014 @ 04:02 PM
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a reply to: mOjOm





But this isn't an official Religious Institution


Yes, I'm aware of that. I stated in a previous post that the legal aspect of selling as a business is what gives the root here but traditional churches are already being challenged anyway.


Court decisions overturning same sex marriage bans in several states have not ended the issue for many churches, whose Biblical beliefs compel them to take a stand, potential legal consequences notwithstanding. Gay rights’ activists deny that people’s religious beliefs are at stake, however evangelical leaders find it disturbing that governmental agencies seem to be taking steps to override an individual’s sincere moral convictions by forcing them to participate in, or approve of, activities that violate their consciences or pay the consequences.


Russell D. Moore, President of the Southern Baptist Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission, considers the debate far from settled, regardless of the wave of same sex marriages resulting from the courts’ decisions in the last few weeks. Some Christian magistrates in North Carolina have resigned their positions rather than disregard their moral convictions by performing marriages they believe have no scriptural support or backing. Executive director Chris Sgro of Equality NC, a North Carolina nonprofit LGBT advocacy group, rebuffs the idea that they are taking away anyone’s right to hold religious beliefs. He and other gay rights proponents see same sex marriage as just part of the job description. Nonetheless, Moore expresses concern for the religious liberties of any American who is compelled to go along with something they truly believe is wrong in order to placate another group’s demand for affirmation of their lifestyle. He asserts that people and churches should have the right to stand up for their beliefs and decline to participate in matters that would offend their scruples.

guardianlv.com...

Again, it comes back down to who has the power to dictate morality. What gives seculars some magical power to dictate these things to everyone? A clear example of someone with a personal agenda using government to dictate to churches www.breitbart.com... Something humorous though.... www.newsmax.com...
edit on 20-10-2014 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 20 2014 @ 04:02 PM
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a reply to: Dfairlite

1. No one that I am aware of is forcing "businesses" to allow marriages; a business that sells weddings to the public is potentially being forced to sell weddings to the public.

2. Marriage is marriage now in Idaho.

3. If your hypothetical Mormon's don't sell alcohol, how would any one force them to?

The Hitching Post Wedding Chapel does sell weddings, so no one should have to force them to.



posted on Oct, 20 2014 @ 04:02 PM
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what i dont understand is why there's this separation of church and state thing (as established in the treaty of tripoli) and yet the government, being separate from any religious institution, is unwilling to do something as simple as a civil union in the courthouse and provide the same marital benefits any heterosexual couple would enjoy. i get that churches are allowed to deny marriages, but why the government?



posted on Oct, 20 2014 @ 04:04 PM
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originally posted by: ThirdEyeofHorus
a reply to: JaxonRoberts

NOT true! Ever hear of "no shoes no shirt no business"? Yah, my hubby got run out of un upscale restaurant because he was wearing a sleeveless shirt. It was Florida where even flip flops are allowed.



I'll take nit-picking for $1000, Alex. Shirts and shoes are a health code requirement, and if you and your husband are dumb enough to go to an upscale restaurant dressed like hillbillies, then... Yes, even in Florida there are restaurants that require you be suitably dressed. This is not discriminatory towards protected classes, it's just plain class.



posted on Oct, 20 2014 @ 04:07 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Dfairlite

1. No one that I am aware of is forcing "businesses" to allow marriages; a business that sells weddings to the public is potentially being forced to sell weddings to the public.

2. Marriage is marriage now in Idaho.

3. If your hypothetical Mormon's don't sell alcohol, how would any one force them to?

The Hitching Post Wedding Chapel does sell weddings, so no one should have to force them to.


So all they need to do is change their product name to "heterosexual ceremonies" and they'll be right as rain?

Let's add further clarification to the mormon hypothetical. The word beverage includes alcoholic drinks. So let's say they sell "beverages" do they have to sell all types of beverages, even those with alcohol?
edit on 20-10-2014 by Dfairlite because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 20 2014 @ 04:10 PM
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a reply to: macman

So you're campaigning to bring back the "Whites Only Served" signs, Mac? Wow, that's pretty open of you.

No one is talking about private homes, no one is talking about who you can be friends with.

Are you bringing back the Brown Shirts, Mac? I'm not sure that's the best move.

Yeah, gotta love it when Regressives want to twist what they say when they realize what it means (usually pointed out by a Progressive). Of course, it's a special interest group, Mac! CHRISTIANS! are the most specialist special interest group of all! Because, apparently, to hear Regressives tell it, society should just ignore the laws because CHRISTIANS don't like them and feel like laws shouldn't apply to them because, well, you know, they have beliefs, and those are better and more important than other people's beliefs.

I don't know about Progressive Fairy Land (they won't let me in since I only meet half the criteria) but I can tell you in Regressive Holy Land that apparently some Christians think its fine to force others to view the world as they do, fine enough that laws should be ignored on their behalf.

So talk to them about forcing people to think that what they believe is true is the only way to look at it.

I just favor the Constitution, the Rule of Law, and the Rights of the State of Idaho to make its own laws; what do I know?

/shrug



posted on Oct, 20 2014 @ 04:11 PM
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Oh, and just to clarify the whole "ordained minister" part, it's so damn easy that I have my ordination certificate hanging on my "I love me" wall. You can too! Only takes a few minutes!

Online ordination made too damn easy!
edit on 20-10-2014 by JaxonRoberts because: englush is hurd!



posted on Oct, 20 2014 @ 04:11 PM
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originally posted by: macman
Ahhhh, so we, as business owners, now loose more rights.

Gotcha.

Gotta love the Progressive way of thinking. Tolerance no matter what. Even if forced by Govt.
The intolerant will be forced to be tolerant, by those intolerant of the intolerant.



If you want to see it that way, that's your choice. I don't consider it to be losing more rights since I don't think you ever had that right to lose in the first place. But I could be wrong I suppose. But I thought that for a quite some time now, a business that served the public was supposed to serve the public without bias. That's what that whole Equal Rights Movement was about. But I guess some people didn't realize the meaning of Equal Rights and thought it meant Black Rights. So now we have to have another Gay Rights Movement too. Then some other movement later on I guess. Too bad, because the Equal Rights Movement should have covered everyone the first time around.



posted on Oct, 20 2014 @ 04:12 PM
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a reply to: Dfairlite

They would have to make themselves a private "Heterosexual Ceremonies Club" and stop acting like a public business.

Show me the Mormon store you're talking about; let's deal with facts rather than "what if this were true."



posted on Oct, 20 2014 @ 04:14 PM
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a reply to: TzarChasm

I'd be curious to see that too!

Can you link the information that says that government is unwilling to perform marriages? Thanks.



posted on Oct, 20 2014 @ 04:17 PM
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originally posted by: macman
I own my business. It is mine. Not yours. I get to determine who I deal with.
See, in my business, I don't have to give a reason to anyone why I choose to not deal or sell to them.
So.....


What was your business again??



posted on Oct, 20 2014 @ 04:19 PM
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a reply to: Gryphon66

Please bring on your friend the "Dark mother" Imaginary friends now. O OO OOOKAY there Please What's next? Suburbanites surviving a permanent electricity failure???????? New Yorkers surviving a nuclear holocaust....????????



posted on Oct, 20 2014 @ 04:23 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: TzarChasm

I'd be curious to see that too!

Can you link the information that says that government is unwilling to perform marriages? Thanks.


as far as im aware there are still more states than not that do not recognize a gay marriage certificate no matter where it comes from.
edit on 20-10-2014 by TzarChasm because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 20 2014 @ 04:26 PM
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originally posted by: Dfairlite
Let me pose a question for those in favor of forcing businesses to allow homosexual unions on their property or personally perform said unions. Mormons don't drink alcohol, should they be forced to carry it in their stores and allow it's consumption on their premises?


Yes, if they own a store that sells alcohol! That's what this is about - a store that sells a thing which is being illegally denied to a portion of society.

So many people in this thread have already given us all the answers needed to fix this, but how's this one for the best - sell only to those within your own cult/religion in which you are ordained.

Easy peasy lemon squeezy.



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