Government to Ordained Ministers: Celebrate Same-Sex Wedding or Go to Jail

a reply to: seeker1963

That's exactly what I was thinking. My wife and I wouldn't have wanted to be married by someone who didn't want to perform the ceremony, so why would anyone else want that?

It boggles my tiny little mind.

Rev

What if all churches, religious places lost their tax-exempt status?

Would the government have a right to dictate?

a reply to: beezzer

So I take it you are choosing to be deliberately obtuse about public accommodation, something carried over into the newly born America from British common law (like most of our laws)?

Their beliefs are protected just fine, they can go work for a church and perform weddings under the protection of the Church. However if they want to profit off of the public, they don't get to decide who the public is.

a reply to: Kali74

So if anyone makes a profit, then they can't have their own beliefs.

Their beliefs have to be sanctioned by the state.

a reply to: Cuervo

The day they start telling churches they need to officiate ceremonies that run counter to their religion is the day I will stand next to the fundies and conservatives with picket signs. That day, I will proudly stand in the corner of the Christian church in their defense.

Absolutely.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

If someone can point out the part in there that says "only if not operating as a for-profit", or "providing public access", please let me know.

Shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, congress is the one who is supposed to write laws, not busybody local officials with a cutesy social agenda.

a reply to: beezzer

They absolutely can have their beliefs, they just can't use those beliefs to discriminate against particular members of the public.

originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: Cuervo

So based simply from tax status, you think the government has a right to dictate what a minister should believe?

You know, that's a good question. And, like I said, it's in bad taste to pick on these folks.

Maybe there needs to be a different classification for businesses that are both for-profit and serve an exclusively religious service.

What made me really think about what you said is the thought of the churchless ordained minister (myself included) who just may enjoy officiating a ceremony here and there because that's what they do, church or not. Would we also be forced to marry two folks who don't jive with our beliefs? For example, would I eventually be forced to wed two Neo-Nazis someday because, otherwise, I'd be discriminating?

Seriously, good question. But as it stands now, their chapel is legally no different than a McDonalds. Hopefully our laws will reflect a more reasonable compromise down the road.

originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: Kali74

So if anyone makes a profit, then they can't have their own beliefs.

Their beliefs have to be sanctioned by the state.

If you offer a service for profit then you are not allowed to discriminate.

To put it in perspective. These people did not want to trade with non white people.


Just another form of duality hate for subjective reasons/beliefs.

Either the government gets # for supporting homosexuality or it gets # for not supporting homosexuality. can we make up our minds please.

originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: beezzer

They absolutely can have their beliefs, they just can't use those beliefs to discriminate against particular members of the public.

They just aren't allowed to practice their beliefs.

Instead, they have to practice the beliefs mandated by the state.

a reply to: TurtleSmacker

Your point would be valid if laws were being written to regulate religion, but these laws are written in regards to the public.

a reply to: Cuervo

It is forcing a state mandated belief upon people who don't share the same belief as the state.

a reply to: Cuervo

For example, would I eventually be forced to wed two Neo-Nazis someday because, otherwise, I'd be discriminating?

You would. But if you would like to have the ceremony in a certain way you could write a contract on how the ceremony will be performed for all who use your services so the Neo-Nazi theme would not be allowed in the ceremony.

originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: Cuervo

So based simply from tax status, you think the government has a right to dictate what a minister should believe?

This is what I don't understand. Not for profit has nothing to do with being a "religious" church or not. Some churches are for-profit, others not (others simply lie and rake in the dough).

It is just an artifact of the tax code. In fact, if the tax code was revamped to an across the board sales tax with no exemptions, there wouldn't be a "not-for-profit" status for any entitiy.

a reply to: beezzer

No, sorry your tears of irrationality won't change a damn thing and God help us if they did because we'd all be screwed. They are not disallowed to practice their beliefs, they can go to church, work for a church, perform straight only weddings in a church. If you can't operate a business properly because of your beliefs than you have no business trying to do so. Beliefs and feelings have no place in public commerce and you are insane if you think it should be otherwise.

I have a suggestions: how about for every month that church refuses to marry a same sex couple, it has to pay taxes?

i feel this is a legitimate suggestion.

Basically, if you make a profit from a business or establishment, you have to adhere to the state-mandated beliefs, you aren't allowed to have the freedom of practicing your own.

Sieg heil!

a reply to: Kali74

What if my religion is to buy, sell, and trade with the public?

Discrimination against discriminators....what a strange time we live in.

Also, I believe in the concept of "private business", in the 19th century meaning of the term. It doesn't belong to you, or the government, or "the public", it belongs to whom owns it. You being a member of the public enter a business, you've entered into private territory. Religious or not.

"The Public", is simply a codeword for whatever group is currently burning the most bridges.

a reply to: Kali74

So screw your faith, you should be ordered and mandated by the state to act and behave in a manner that they dictate.



Got it!