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Berated over baby: Judge denies woman delay during maternity leave

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posted on Oct, 19 2014 @ 01:28 AM
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Berated over baby: Judge denies woman delay during maternity leave


ATLANTA (AP) — An immigration judge in Atlanta denied an attorney's request to delay a hearing that fell during her six-week maternity leave and then scolded her in front of a packed courtroom when she showed up with her 4-week-old strapped to her chest and the infant began to cry, the attorney said.

When Stacy Ehrisman-Mickle took on two young brothers as clients in early September, she immediately filed a request to postpone their next hearing, which was set for a month later, she said. In an order denying her request, Immigration Judge J. Dan Pelletier Sr. wrote, "No good cause. Hearing date set prior to counsel accepting representation."



Ehrisman-Mickle told them she would take their case but that their next hearing on Oct. 7 fell during her maternity leave. She told them she'd have to file a motion to delay the hearing but that it shouldn't be a problem because two other immigration judges had already granted similar motions based on letters from her doctor, she said.



Pelletier finally agreed to delay the hearing until after Ehrisman-Mickle is cleared by her doctor to return to work, she said.

Ehrisman-Mickle said she filed a formal complaint against Pelletier the same day as the hearing. An investigating judge called to get her side of the story after the complaint was filed but she hasn't heard anything further, she said.

Georgia State University College of Law associate professor Tanya Washington said it was reasonable ofEhrisman-Mickle to believe the judge would delay the hearing to accommodate her maternity leave. Furthermore, Ehrisman-Mickle demonstrated a real commitment to her clients by showing up with her baby, Washington said.

"I think the judge yelling at her for being unprofessional by appearing with her child is unreasonable, insensitive and unprofessional," Washington said.


Links to story:
Huffington Post
Fox 8

I have no sympathy for her. She took the case knowing it fell during her maternity leave. Not the courts fault. It's, also, not the Judge's fault she didn't properly pre-plan to prevent p*ss poor performance in case the motion was denied. She assumed, that, because her other cases got delays she'd get another one. That logic is irresponsible. She should have never taken the case in the first place. What is she going to do if something like this happens again?? she is supposed to be an educated professional woman. Create a contingency plan. There are plenty of resources out there to help find a sitter. I'm sure a coworker could have help watch the child or at least help find some one who would. It's like she didn't even bother. She put the judge in a bad situation he should have never been in in the first place. It's not his job to manage her case/schedule. She was completely unprofessional by bring her daughter to court. He runs a courtroom not a daycare. I would have been ticked if I were her clients. I would feel she wasn't capable to properly defend me. How is she suppose to plead my case if she is busy trying to keep her kid from crying. However, I don't feel sorry for her clients either. She was pretty far along in her pregnancy when she took the case, they should have known this could be an issue. They are lucky they got a delay. If I were the judge I would charge her for the courts time she wasted.

What do you guys think? Was the Judge right for scolding her ??




posted on Oct, 19 2014 @ 01:38 AM
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I would have held her in contempt of court

180 days 10,000 dollar fine
for her unprofessional conduct and disrespect to the bench

another 180 days 10,000 dollar fine
the verbal outburst of those she is responsible for

another 180 days 10,000 dollar fine
wasting the courts time and being un-prepared
court date was before she took the case

I would call the bailiff to take her away
and CPS to take her kid

for a grand total of 530 days in prison and 30,000 dollars
I gaurentee no one will pull this crap ever again

This is so wrong that woman thought this was ok and that others are defending her on it shows a lot
I know of no courtroom where the judge would EVER allow this..

EVER..



posted on Oct, 19 2014 @ 01:40 AM
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I think it would have been more reasonable of the judge to allow the delay.

It was unprofessional of the lawyer to do it this way though.
She placed the clients case in jeopardy by taking the case during maternity leave and then showing up with the baby in court.

She was apparently making a point with the judge but that's not her job. Her job is to take care of the client.



posted on Oct, 19 2014 @ 01:42 AM
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a reply to: ripcontrol

well it is a good thing you didn't get the chance to judge ,jury and executioner then isnt it.....

the whole court system is a farce...there are so many cases that get adjourned for months and months ,sometimes years for no real real valid reason except to drag it out and put more money into the public purse....the judge in this case could quite easily have granted the extra time needed...his ego didn't agree



posted on Oct, 19 2014 @ 01:44 AM
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originally posted by: ripcontrol

This is so wrong that woman thought this was ok and that others are defending her on it shows a lot
I know of no courtroom where the judge would EVER allow this..

EVER..




Agreed.



posted on Oct, 19 2014 @ 01:50 AM
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a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

This is not a matter of ego
The lawyer was unprofessional
to a large degree and is joke

On the judical system we can agree

I am not judge jury or executioner on this
that is all legal what I mentioned
And whats worse is there are no appeals usually to a judge issuing contempt of court charges


Its not an executionable offense
she should be severly punished but thats it.


Keep in mind this woman took the case
knowing the court date was PRESET
ethically she should have told the clients- I cant take the case

She took the money and the case
and endangered her clients well being

She has future in polotics



posted on Oct, 19 2014 @ 01:53 AM
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a reply to: badgerprints

She also made her name mud in the field

I see where the judge is coming from
Thier dockets are full
and this lady wasted his time

Note the article did say she was warned WAY ahead of time it was coming..
This is not a
good morning
By the way, you got court in thirty minutes

The judge was correct because it was a preset appointment



posted on Oct, 19 2014 @ 01:56 AM
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I had a court case (for a misdemeanor) delayed for literally 2 months because a cop who was annoyed at my friend refused to sign paperwork out of spite. I had to take a day off and drive an hour each week, way not to mention hours sitting in court for nothing, 8 times just to get a $200 fine. So in other words a minor offense which could have been dealt with by just getting a ticket cost me something like $1200. What did it cost the cop? Nothing. What did it cost the courts? Nothing. What did it cost my attorney? Nothing. Me. $1200 and 3 or 4 days total of my life. All for a simple misdemeanor.

Everything is just broken and even as the signs keep piling up, people want to preserve the status quo. It's sickening.



posted on Oct, 19 2014 @ 02:05 AM
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a reply to: ripcontrol

well as far as being unprofessional i agree to a point...there is no reason the judge could not have given her a little more time......

as far as her having a career in politics...i am sure she is planning how as we speak...lawyers,liars,bottom feeders whatever you want to call them want to move up the ladder...it is a natural progression for them

as much as we may be led to believe lawyers work for the people they do not...they work for the courts and the system
edit on 19-10-2014 by hopenotfeariswhatweneed because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 19 2014 @ 02:10 AM
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How is giving a new date causing problems by the way? He just has his assistant or secretary or whatever find a slot elsewhere. I don't see the big deal. If I need to reschedule to a later date with my doctor he doesn't tell me, "sorry but no, that would require my receptionist to do her job"



posted on Oct, 19 2014 @ 02:19 AM
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originally posted by: tavi45
How is giving a new date causing problems by the way? He just has his assistant or secretary or whatever find a slot elsewhere. I don't see the big deal. If I need to reschedule to a later date with my doctor he doesn't tell me, "sorry but no, that would require my receptionist to do her job"



i dont think it is causing problems as i stated earlier i think it was a clash of ego's....anyone who has ever been to court knows damn well that adjournments are a natural part of the process ...it is annoying but thats what they do...

hell i am going through the process at the moment...i have a ten year old daughter and i do not know where she is....i went to court requesting a location order to find her...the judge in his infinate wisdom denied it based on that i needed a 60i certificate...which is a certificate you get after an attempted mediation...WTF how do i mediate with someone when i dont know where they are.....it was adjourned for 5 weeks while i got the certificate...the people who give out the certificates were as confused as i was on this retarded order ...i didnt even need to go in they granted it over the phone.....

i turned up to court with my 4 year old...i had no choice......the judges as far as i can tell make up their own rules as it suits them

edit on 19-10-2014 by hopenotfeariswhatweneed because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 19 2014 @ 02:27 AM
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a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

Yeah that sounds familiar. Everyone in power seems to do that. My favorite example of that with judges is Antonin Scalia whose primary goal is a theocracy in conflict with the very basis of the constitution in its original form. He #s on the constitution all the time.



posted on Oct, 19 2014 @ 02:50 AM
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a reply to: tavi45

A lot of court dates are planned months in advance. The immigration cases may have been back logged already. There may have not been an available date right away. Our judicial system is anything but efficient. This slows down the process, inconveniencing the court and the client's time. Time equals money. Plus her clients have a right to a speedy trail after all.

For example: If the clients had jobs they would have to take time of work costing them a days wages not count gas to get back and forth to court. They still have to pay the lawyer for her time and to refile all the paperwork for the case on top of things. That costs them even more money. (Lawyers love to nickle and dime you.) Now their case is delayed so they will have to get off work, again, to come back to court because the lawyer couldn't get her stuff together. Their lawyer's actions cost them a lot more money with her little stunt. Her actions probably caused even more congestion in an already inefficiently ran system.

If I were the judge I would have acted the same way. Not because of my "ego". She's not an 18 yr old girl. She should have known better. I never tolerated this stuff when I was a manager. I wouldn't expect a judge to either.
edit on 10/19/2014 by blackcatmagic because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 19 2014 @ 02:57 AM
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a reply to: blackcatmagic

* We don't know the full situation
* It's unlikely her coworkers could look after her daughter in a court room environment. In fact, I've never seen that in my own work environment nevermind court
* There was clearly some delay in hiring her as lawyer due to money etc ... we don't know the deal, for all we know the family could have insisted on having her etc etc etc ... she could have been trying to do a favor
* Her Husband was out of town
* She told the judge the repercussions
* You don't know the financial situations involved (in my country being a lawyer doesn't mean you are rich)

If the family that hired the lawyer wanted that representation and were confident in that representation, who is the judge to stand in the way and hand out parenting advice? While I understand people who are saying this is unprofessional, I simply see this far too often in various places I work.

People in positions of power have high and mighty ideas about other people's situations and priorities and start lecturing on the whole coulda / shoulda/ woulda. Funny thing about being in a position of power, you don't have the same problem because you're in a position of power. You just run the world how you think it should work.

What would have been unprofessional is if she hadn't shown up at all. If other judges had recognized paternity leave then why shouldn't this one? I've had court dates bumped because a juror felt ill. I've had to show up a second day because we broke for lunch early. I've had week breaks due to leave for court staff. Once we were removed from the court so they could catch a fly. No this isn't a joke.

It just sounds to me like American judges need to work out if they recognize maternity leave or not and stick to it. I'd pay to see the American legal system make that statement btw ... (you would too, would require tax payers money to hide the spokes person from the pitch forks).

Edit: as a side note, I've seen jurors not expect to get placed on an 8 week long case and not have adequate provisions for taking care of their children. They weren't completely excused, they had to return and take another case later. Still, I believe right to choice of representation should be accommodated when possible above what the judge considers to be an annoyance.
edit on 19-10-2014 by Pinke because: Edit



posted on Oct, 19 2014 @ 03:42 AM
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a reply to: Pinke

It's her responsibility. She made the choice to have/raise the child. When I was in the military we had to have child care. No excuses. If I had to be in at 3 AM, I better have a way to take care of my kids. It was unacceptable to bring my kids to work. I didn't have any one to watch my kids either. My family was miles away. I never once had a child care issue. If I can do it when I was a 19-20 yrs old adult, then she should be able to figure it out. In the US there are plenty of sitter services she could have chosen from. She had options. Being a new mother isn't excuse for her incompetence.

It's not that they didn't recognize her maternity leave. She took the case knowing ahead of time the court date fell during her maternity leave. It wasn't a last minute thing. She knew at least a month ahead of time this was coming. She could have coordinated with her husband/family member to make sure the child was properly cared for. She assumed she would get the delay based on the fact her other cases got a delayed. It's not the judge that made her come in on her maternity leave. She is the one who didn't plan accordingly. She needs to accept the consequence for her mismanagement. If child care was going to be an issue she should have never taken the case in the first place. I hope this didn't cost her clients the case. The judge had the right to deny her request. It would have been nice if he grated her request but he should be obligated to because she's a women and has a child. It would not have been tolerated if it was one of her male colleagues. I don't think she should get a pass. We shouldn't bend our court system around for convenience and stupidity.


That's utterly ridiculous about the fly.
edit on 10/19/2014 by blackcatmagic because: Ahhh spelling!![edit]
edit on 10/19/2014 by blackcatmagic because: (no reason given)

edit on 10/19/2014 by blackcatmagic because: (no reason given)
extra DIV



posted on Oct, 19 2014 @ 04:04 AM
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a reply to: blackcatmagic




We shouldn't bend our court system around for convince and stupidity.


really...really !!.....you maybe need a good dose of reality to slap you square in the head....and i assume you meant convenience ?...there are many factors not being told in this scenario as pinke bought up... it is important to understand where people are coming from instead of assuming it from your own point of view....hell there is a saying about it ,...in fact there are many..here is just 1
"Before you judge my life, my past or my character. walk in my shoes, walk the path I have traveled, live my sorrow, my doubts, my fear, my pain and my laughter. Remember, everyone has a story, when you've lived my life then you can judge me."



posted on Oct, 19 2014 @ 04:07 AM
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Hiya Blackcat,

I get your point, and I don't entirely disagree, but just to reiterate.

I think choice of representation trumps small court delays. I think this woman's personal experience is not your personal experience or mine. She could be a very protective mother. I think I'd sooner point out the inconsistencies within the system before blaming an individual. Furthermore, it should be dealt with the same way if a male colleague was in the same situation. If the system was consistent this wouldn't be happening in the first place.

Regarding the fly, yes it was ridiculous. I'm not sure why they had to send the jury out of the room to kill a fly. It was hanging around the crown lawyer and being a general annoyance, but it seemed over the top. Luckily it wasn't a big deal that day. For full transparency, I'm incredibly biased on this topic on the basis of the court system being a huge time sink in my country. Judges aren't usually mean here and they don't often lecture or say incredibly rude things, but the system is such that you have to be called all the way back to the stand to answer a ten word question and if a juror is late you can lose half a day.

You would think I'd lean more the other way, but most of these things can be avoided by the judge or a better system.



posted on Oct, 19 2014 @ 04:53 AM
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a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

Actually listen to what you posted..

She is quite aware of the inequalities of the court systems from the reality slap you mention.


The issue you mentioned with your own court issues is part of a larger argument that has been shoved down my own face..

Proper Pre Planning Prevents piss poor preformance

When you fail in this you get a visit from reality with its pimp slapping abilities..

This women took her clients money for services she was not able to render
she then counted on the judge to feel pity for her

Judge decided to chew her out for wasting the courts time when she could have made arrangements and choose not to ..
She then complained because she was talked to about her behavior

It is the same in your case
you truthfully should have researched everything involved in your case

And yes I have jacked up my own legal cases before so I speak from experience

1)know the participants
background information

I dont know.. the judge is a prick who wants men in black suits and red ties..
Then you do it

Does he have a martini or smoke when he is not supposed to


2)opinion control

What type of impression do I want to set

Would you go on a blind date in dirty clothes


3)know the procedures
For instance the woman could have just lied and went to her doctor for a family emergency

Judge will give an automatic extension and the law forces him to (FMLA)

(I know I watched it take place and asked.. Judges wont precede because they dont want a liberal or Conservative appellate judge to throw their cases in the trash and remand them back..)


4)know the setting

Details of the environment
Liberals, Republican
Special laws porcedures
clerks names

all the little details

This lawyer apparently did not do her due diligence
Then you get into the procedures of law

This at the end of the day was an immigration hearing
now her clients will be remembered as jokes and to be truthful she used them

Or little things
Like if you cant find someone
After Process servers and Emails and face book
(CYA submiting evidence of screen shots of emails' and facebook.. This is an attempt to notify you of a court date.. Need address to send you paperwork)

The do whats called a public Notice
Court House steps, Facebook, myspace, newspaper
(check law per state over what qualifies as public notice)

Then prepare goat lovemaking
They do not show up proceed for what ever you are asking for

Advice
GO TO A LAWYER

Always double check everything you read on law with a lawyer and have a plan..

Why do you think big firms have legal teams.. They are also there were someone can go through everything they do.. Double check plans

This woman should have talked with another lawyer
her Mentor maybe

At the end of the day this is about a person who failed in their job and is trying to whine their way out of it
She is not that good a lawyer apparently

She filed a complaint, but not with the EEOC
A lawyer is an officer of the court
She cant even play the system



posted on Oct, 19 2014 @ 05:43 AM
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a reply to: ripcontrol

Wait why did she need to consult with a lawyer on this? Her request was reasonable and easily doable. That's why two other judges granted it before.

Big corporations get cases postponed all the time for no reason then to use the court system to bankrupt fledgling competitors. The rule of law has failed when the powerful can abuse and game the system to the detriment of the weak and powerless, and its perfectly acceptable because it's legal. I guess these immigrants needed sleazy corrupt expansive lawyers if they wanted justice.

The working mom who clearly cared about human beings is the asshole right? No lawyer who is in it purely for the money goes into protecting the poor unless they have political ambitions and even then they would go for something less controversial than immigration.



posted on Oct, 19 2014 @ 06:03 AM
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a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

Being a new mother shouldn't be used as a scapegoat for irresponsibility.

Most of the information is in the articles.....



When Stacy Ehrisman-Mickle took on two young brothers as clients in early September, she immediately filed a request to postpone their next hearing, which was set for a month later, she said.


The court date was preset before she took the case.




Ehrisman-Mickle's clients came to her in early July for a consultation, but they couldn't afford to hire her right away, she said. They went to their first immigration court hearing on Sept. 2 without a lawyer and then came to Ehrisman-Mickle's office with their mother four days later, on a Saturday, to hire her.


Not her fault the potential clients were delayed in hiring her. Still doesn't change the fact she was due to give birth any day.



Ehrisman-Mickle told them she would take their case but that their next hearing on Oct. 7 fell during her maternity leave. She told them she'd have to file a motion to delay the hearing but that it shouldn't be a problem because two other immigration judges had already granted similar motions based on letters from her doctor, she said.


She knew the court date fell during her maternity leave. She assumed she would get a delay. She should have never taken the case in the first place.




She filed the motion Sept. 8 and it was received by the court the following day, she said. Pelletier ruled on the motion Oct. 2 and Ehrisman-Mickle's office received the decision the following day, the Friday before the Tuesday hearing, she said.

At home in bed, Ehrisman-Mickle was shocked when her secretary called to tell her the motion had been denied. Her truck driver husband was out of state, her 4-week-old daughter was too young for day care and she has no family in the area, she said.


Where was she when he ruled on the motion? I guess she didn't bother to show up? Probably why it got denied. Still she had 1- 4 days to find someone to watch her daughter. It's not like she didn't know the court date.....




She called her daughter's pediatrician to ask if it would be safe to bring the baby with her to court. The doctor told her it would be OK as long as she kept the infant in a carrier on her chest facing her body and didn't let anyone touch the baby.

During the hearing, her baby began to cry, and Pelletier scolded her for inappropriate behavior and commented that her pediatrician must be appalled that she was exposing the baby to so many germs in court, she said.

"I was embarrassed. I felt humiliated," she said.


There's no mention of her even attempting to find child care. She had options. I'm not going to give her a pass because she's a new mother. The judge at least attempted to let her proceed until the child started to disrupt the proceedings.


"Another lawyer who was present in the courtroom confirmed the details of Ehrisman-Mickle's story. He asked that his name not be used because he doesn't want the judge to retaliate against his clients.

Pelletier finally agreed to delay the hearing until after Ehrisman-Mickle is cleared by her doctor to return to work, she said."

He granted her the delay, but only because the court couldn't proceed. It has to be hard to hear/present a case when you have to yell over a baby.

Ehrisman-Mickle said she filed a formal complaint against Pelletier the same day as the hearing. An investigating judge called to get her side of the story after the complaint was filed but she hasn't heard anything further, she said.


She ended up getting what she wanted and still complained even though the whole mess was directly cause by her incompetence.

Speaking of "walking a mile in some one's shoes" how about you place yourself in the judge's or her clients. You are so quick to jump on the lawyer's side. How would you feel if it were your sons about to be deported and their lawyer showed up unprepared, with kid in tow, after you paid your hard earned money for her services?? Lawyers aren't cheap.Think about that family and what her selfish actions put them through. I'd be worried sick about the fate of my sons. Think about the Judge. You already have a long day ahead of you. You need to stick to a strict scheduled to hear all the days cases, so not to get even more behind, and this happens. Would you like your employee showing up to her shift with kid strapped to her chest? No, because it's unprofessional. What if it was the judge in your case who brought their kid to work? Do you think the judge's attention would be 100% on the case? Probably not. That's pretty important being he/she decides your fate. Could mean the difference between a light sentence of getting the book thrown at you.

For the record, I also know what it's like to have no one helping with the kids. It's hard and it sucks. I have had to reschedule things because my kids were sick or whatever. However, I never let interfere with my JOB. That thing people pay me to do. It's call being a responsible adult.
edit on 10/19/2014 by blackcatmagic because: Geez I can't type .....



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