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Has God exhausted itself (using the human experience) as its main source of self expression

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posted on Oct, 21 2014 @ 08:29 AM
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a reply to: Joecroft

I actually agree with you in part, that when Jesus said born again he meant spiritually in this instance, but the spiritual birth he mentioned also has a physical counterparthat must also happen (everyone must be born physically before they can be born spiritually), which is why he states that you must be born of water and Spirit because both are inevitable. In this instance though he is only speaking of the spiritual rebirth to Nicodimus, he only touches on the physical by mentioning water. It's kinda like he was telling Nicodimus that you must be born both physically and spiritually but since you have already been born physically here is the spiritual aspect of the teaching, he then goes on to describe the Spirit as blowing where it pleasrs like wind. He was obviously describing the Spirit as wind in my opinion otherwise why would he be saying those who are born of the Spirit blow here and there like wind?

Yes water does contain oxygen but the air also contains water in the form of moisture or dew. They mirror one another in that regard, each containing one within the other.

But again, this difference in opinion is expected, the thing that matters is that we understand it, even if in a different way.




posted on Oct, 22 2014 @ 12:12 PM
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Another clue to what I say is John the Baptist. John said he baptized with water, but there would be someone who came after him (Jesus) who would baptize with fire (Holy Spirit). If the Holy Spirit is fire it cannot be water, they are diametrically opposed to one another. If the Spirit is water, that would mean John was speaking about himself not Jesus, because John baptized with water.

Water cannot represent the Spirit otherwise that would mean John is the one who baptized with the Spirit not Jesus. Unless John contradicted himself the Spirit cannot be water in my opinion.

This ties into what Jesus said about being "born of water and Spirit", where water represents the mirror of Spirit/fire/wind, a.k.a. physical birth/water/womb. Jesus was a spiritual teacher so he mentions water birth alongside spiritual birth, confirming (in my opinion) what Nicodimus stated just before but then going on to explain the other half which is the Spirit which blows like wind this way and that way. Water and wind creates waves, or living waters, a body that is animated and moving, or you and I.

When Jesus walked on water it symbolized rising above the waters (physical reality) and walking in the Spirit (air/wind). He didn't sink, meaning he didn't allow the world (water) to overtake him, hence walking on water and being in the wind (Spirit). What is it like for those who are born of the Spirit and who "walk on water"? They are blown where the wind takes them because they are above the waters of physical reality.

These are only a few examples of why I see it this way, I'm sure I could find more if I need to.

edit on 10/22/2014 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 22 2014 @ 12:41 PM
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a reply to: vethumanbeing

I think your trying to conceptualize the Creator from within the creation itself. God is not 1's and 0's, the Universe itself may be, but it is just a reflection of the greater reality that we cannot intuitively break-down and express in the manners we are used to. That's one of the things that bothers non-believers, is that they simply cannot imagine God, and it hurts their heads. Well here's the thing, NONE of us can, we who believe simply accept that there are things in this reality which we will never understand, or be able to articulate correctly to instill understanding in another. There are a lot of things in this reality that have to be seen to be believed, well so too there are some things in this existence that have to be believed to be seen.



posted on Oct, 22 2014 @ 04:31 PM
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a reply to: vethumanbeing


VetH,
Thanks..and I apologize for the lengthy post exposition and thank you for responded to many of my points however there are too many to respond to so I will just address the jest of it as succinctly as possible(pared down from a novel).

The purpose of my Walt Disney analogy was to simplify the infinitely complex that I know almost nothing of.I was not trying to draw guidelines of the way “existence” works I was only making an analogy to proclaim there is a logic in the cosmic soup of chaotic entropy that is in effect… a perfect storm.

However it is impossible for mankind to “observe” the Truth the whole Truth and nothing but the Truth because their perception is very finite and does not even reach the end of their nose.(yes Pinocchio would be the wisest boy ever but he is not a real boy!)

The universal point is IF there is a creator God( I say “if” because “just” creator God is definitely not an completely accurate term) then their creation is NOT themselves.At most creation is something in “relationship” to them.In other words it all comes down to simple math….a ratio.Math is the ONLY Truth that man can perceive without revelation because it is self evident and all of creation is made of and from math.

For clarity’s sake I will “try” to keep to only math and very simple math using symbolism…here goes:

all numbers are “created” by and through the number 1
1=unity(the beginning)
1=the creator God

The creator Gods nature and character is to “create”.Its “first act of creation is to “add” to itself however there is only itself so it adds nothing(the void)
0=the void
0+1=1

That is the 1st “act” of creation(but is not a creation) that “begat” another number however the creator can only begat after it’s own kind ….a son.
0+1=1
0=the void
1=the creator God the begetter Father
1=the son of he creator God the begotten

This is the most difficult(and significant) part of the equation.In it’s simplicity is infinite complexity.It is impossible to observe and to know the answer to the 5 “w” of everything…. and it doesn’t matter ….it is just the way things are and the way “math works”.

Now there are 3 numbers where there was once(not in a time sense) only 1.Now there are ratios(relationships)
0÷1=0
1÷0=0
1÷1=1
1÷1=1

This is much simpler than it looks and of course infinitely more complex.Because of the nature of “1” I’m going to label these numbers to clarify and distinguish where needed.By now you know these numbers are in the most significant number sequence called The Fibonacci number(Fn for short) sequence so:
Fn0=0
Fn1=1
Fn2=1

As you can see in the beginning the digits are very simple because it is only 0,1 however the Fn2 number began the complexity.Two numbers (Fn1,Fn2) are the same digit.On the outside this would appear to contradict and be perceived as the same number yet… they aren’t.

They are the same value however Fn1 is preeminent…it “begat” Fn2…this lays the groundwork for the most significant process of the creation of the material realm(and everything)…the seed.

Everything is begat from a seed but where did the “seed” come from…(the chicken or the egg) fortunately math has very little to do with fowl and unfortunately the world is seeded with chicken littles so I will depart from that analogy.

This seed is “fruit”(the meaning of beginning in Hebrew is first fruit btw).The seeds ratio/relationship with it’s beggeter/father is:
Fn1÷Fn2
1÷1=1
and
Fn2÷Fn1
1÷1=1

It is still unity but it is a ratio.This is the FIRST ratio that all ratios are begat from to produce more son/seeds.To create more sons the numbers must “multiply” in it’s simplest form…addition.
Fn1+Fn2=Fn3
1+1=2

Fn2=creation(everything)

cont'd



posted on Oct, 22 2014 @ 04:33 PM
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This may seem like a simple equation yet EVERYTHING that has or ever will exists was created through it.It is the sum of the father and son.It created another digit that is “separate” from unity but is “made” of the sum of unity simultaneously.Btw in Hebrew the word translated “holy” means separate.Notice the ratio has now changed and is smaller than it’s parts

1÷2=0.5
and multiplied ..simultaneously!!
2÷1=2

this push/pull is going to be the pattern of ratios from now on in the sequence. Every time a new number is “created” it is added to the previous(called recursive) then they are divided to sum a ratio.
Fn2+Fn3=Fn4
1+2=3
Fn4=3

2÷3=0.666…
3÷2=1.5

notice
1.5(3÷2)
is exactly “1” more than
0.5(1÷2)

This is forming the perfect “unity”(1) ratio in a multitude of ways.Eventually the ratio of two adjacent Fn sum to the number mathematicians call phi or Phi.Unfortunately it seems many mathematicians (and scientist) have very little interest in an irrational number(a number that never resolves) except by observation of what it “did”.They like to keep their numbers as tidy as possible so they observed a way to calculate it that doesn’t have so many calculations that constantly “change”.

Phi is summed in this simple calculation
√5+1÷2=1.618,033,988,749,895…….
or as is usually written
1.618,033

The “core” number is 1.618 which Phi “wants to resolve to but never does and as it is calculated through the Fn it will keep moving “0” to the right but will always have numbers after it.This is very significant because it mirrors the infinite process of creation…but off the subject of philosophy and back to “real”reality… math.

I’m going to skip ahead through the Fn calculations(you can find them in many of my posts) to what is in relationship to mans condition in the process(ooops PHILOSOPHY!!).The creation process is ALL about ratio’s ….this is “observed” in clarity of the Fn calculations of phi/Phi.

When a “lower” Fn is divided by it’s sequential higher Fn it sums “phi”.
When a higher Fn is divided by the same Fn it sums “Phi”
Fn11÷Fn12
89÷144=0.618,055,555…..
Fn13÷Fn12
233÷144=1.618,055,555…..

This calculations are superior to √5+1÷2=Phi because they sum phi AND Phi and observe the “growth” in “unity.

The ratio of 1:0.618…or 1:1.618…is called the Golden Ratio.It has a simple a+b=c type equation but right now it confuses the issue(even though is the deeper meaning).The following calculations will illuminate why phi and Phi are the most unique and significant numbers in the creation process.

1÷0.618033988749895=1.618033988749895
1÷1.618033988749895=0.618033988749895

this is the only number that sums this ratio.It is in a “perfect “ratio to “1”.The Fn when calculated always produce/sum a phi then a Phi ratio with the same divisor because that is how the creator God is “producing” everything.In essence everything “grows” in a process in a phi/Phi ratio to the creator God”unity”.

This very simple calculation is the encapsulation of all creation.Everything else is mere speculation of babel(the confusion of words) in comparison.Math is the Truth language.If the “terms” are correct and summed correctly it will produce Truth.

The conundrum is “what can be “done” (by mankind) with these numbers..the answer is everything…. and nothing.It is the creator Gods equation.They are the one who is creating ….everything else(you) is IN the equation and part of the calculation(creation process).Whatever it is the sum will always be ..the Golden ratio…it can be nothing else.

The fact is the physical realm/universe has not been summed in time/space yet because of it’s nature.In essence time is space being calculated and summed.It is not until it is summed the next leg of the equation starts.Presently it has been calculated through observance the universe will eventually die by self consumption in trillions of trillions of multiple trillions of years or…tomorrow..or the next second….the fact is it doesn’t matter when or how… it just means that part of the equation is summed.

The bottom line fact is the creator God is the unity.EVERYTHING has been done by and through them.To call them infinitely complex is an understatement.To compare the most intelligent being to the creator would be the same as comparing the creators intelligent to a rock.

The bottom line fact is NONE of mankind is the creator God the Father NOR the son of the creator God nor ever will be by any stretch of a chickens imagination.Mankind is nothing but Chicken Little proclaiming the sky is falling because blue looks very light….There is no “enlightenment” there is no ascension” there is no as above so it is below..religion,spirituality,mysticism are ALL false… NONE have been born anew NONE are even ALIVE yet .To believe any of those things is hubris of the highest order of insanity.

The fact is mankind is on a strong dose of blue pills “sleeping” in the matrix dreaming of life and believing they are ALIVE when they are in the valley of the shadows of death and LIFE.When they wake up from counting sheep they will be calculated and summed as phi…then Phi…then phi…then Phi…and so on for infinity….the numbers don’t lie.



posted on Oct, 22 2014 @ 07:45 PM
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a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1



Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
I actually agree with you in part, that when Jesus said born again he meant spiritually in this instance, but the spiritual birth he mentioned also has a physical counterparthat must also happen



Yes, this is really all I was trying to say i.e. that when Jesus said “born again” he meant “born again” spiritually in that instance.

Of course, the phrase itself already implies that physical birth, has already taken place first…so in a way, its touches upon the first physical birth en-passing (between the lines)… but the phrase itself, is specifically talking/implying the 2nd birth, i.e. the “birth of the Spirit”…IMO…for all the reasons I’ve already mentioned…




Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
(everyone must be born physically before they can be born spiritually), which is why he states that you must be born of water and Spirit because both are inevitable. In this instance though he is only speaking of the spiritual rebirth to Nicodimus, he only touches on the physical by mentioning water.


Well this is the weird thing, because all of the phrases Jesus uses are all talking about the Spiritual birth. “Born again”, is referring the spiritual birth; “born of spirit” is referring to the Spiritual birth. And When Jesus pointed out that “flesh gives birth to flesh and Spirit gives birth to Spirit”, he was again giving enlightenment, on the spiritual birth (because the flesh one is obvious)…so all of Jesus figures of speech, are all pertaining to the spiritual birth.

This is why I suspect that the “water” in the “water and Spirit”, part is describing an attribute or character of the Spirit, which is why I lean towards the possibility that this verse hasn’t been translated accurately.

Also, another possibility, is that connected to the Gnostic Christians and Essene traditions, who knew that being baptised in water, was only a outward symbolic representation, of being born again in the Spirit.

The RCC church didn't seem to understand this aspect, and thought that actually physical water baptism was a necessary requirement. I’m aware that certain parts in the NT have been added too and edited in some parts. This appears to have been done in most cases, with the aim of promoting a particular doctrine. So I often wonder if this verse was also added to, too help support the theology of physical water baptism…just my thoughts…



Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
But again, this difference in opinion is expected, the thing that matters is that we understand it, even if in a different way.



Yeah absolutely. But we do agree on quite a bit…lol


Reincarnation is real/true….Check

The birth of the Spirit….Check

The attributes and character of the Spirit…Check

People can be born again/Reincarnated and can later become born again spiritually…Check

Spirit of life is continuous…Check

Everyone is in the Kingdom of God, whether aware of it or Not…Check


Yeah absolutely , whoever you are, you’ve clearly been searching for the truth…IMO


- JC



posted on Oct, 22 2014 @ 08:27 PM
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a reply to: vethumanbeing



Originally posted by vethumanbeing
Oh, well that's reasonable; (no recognizable 'god' as yet has knocked on your door and presented "the good news" in the form of a magazine subscription or a 1000 dollar Kirby vacuum) don't tempt/taunt me into blindly writing a treatise I know nothing about regarding this subject (nice try though).



Well, to answer your question, a recognisable God has already knocked on my door, in the form of the truth, that’s spoken through Jesus words, but I’m not talking about believing in all of Christianity here, with it’s many contradictions etc…but of a greater higher truth…not that I claim to know all truth…that would just be arrogant and ridiculous lol




Originally posted by vethumanbeing
No I am not saying strong/weak forces randomly have car wrecks (accidents, collision insurance claims).

I'm saying that without Chaos or random acts of violence within atomic structures/universal there would be no odd ball bad behavior that could/would have the potential to form solid matter.


So let me get this straight, you’re saying that through Chaos/Random Acts of violent collisions, at the sub-atomic level, we eventually get up and running to solid matter…? Wow!!!… Russell's teapot is searching for the evidence, as we speak…lol




Originally posted by vethumanbeing
There is NO WAY a single particle could exist at the same time in two different places at once (that's just crazy talk).


Well, in the field of quantum mechanics, there is a phenomenon known as Quantum Entanglement, which produces some very paradoxical results…where one particle somehow shares/knows information that is happening to the other particle; without any apparent means of connection between the two particles…but Yeah, that’s just crazy talk…AKA Science lol




Originally posted by vethumanbeing
I pay no attention to your words unless you are quoting directly from any episodes of Monty Python's BBC TV production series or one of two full length feature film dramatizations: "In Search of the Holy Grail" or "Life of Brian" (feel free to quote 'The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy" if puzzled).


Why didn’t you say so earlier…as luck would have it, I’m with the Knights who see “knee”…we have on going battles/discussions with the “Spanish Inquisition”…in regards to the Grail and the life of JC…




Originally posted by vethumanbeing
I answered my own OP statement (QUESTION) on page 2 (usually I have the answer beforehand) this time I jumped the gun (too excited) but realized the answer BEFORE ANYONE ELSE and wound up on page 2; I hope this clears things up.


So you asked the question, without knowing the answer first…wow, that takes guts and shows real seeking IMO…So how and when did you have an epiphany, by page 2…?



Originally posted by vethumanbeing
So, when you post an OP are you in Preacher mode (not really wanting answers, clarifications or insight) expelling information and hoping someone resonates with similar thoughts?


A lot depends on how much I know on the subject matter, sometimes I frame my OP as a question and look for further insight i.e. people’s opinions and thoughts etc…But in other OP’s I state what I believe to be true, where usually my mind is already made up on the subject, although I still listen and try to take on board new perspectives, even in those types of threads…



Originally posted by vethumanbeing
Why would 'god' allow evil to live along side love unless it realizes there must be a polarity as the causal for change?


Well, yes, one can look at it from the perspective of soul development, which can’t take place, unless both polarities exist etc…The other way to look at it, has to do with free will, where God allows us to be completely free within this life experience…




Originally posted by vethumanbeing
Its not about the material; no one sneaks into Disneyland for free. You desired to be a human and if that involved convincing the higher-ups you would not waste this space afforded (many others were in the cue waiting) you apparently made a good enough argument. You have much more freedom on the other side; did you not realize this existence is a sort of prison, hampered by heavy gravity. You cannot conjure anything at a whim; takes true effort and imagination.


I wonder what my argument was…probably something Like “Hey, I’m free, and I desire to live life to the fullest)…I hate to be instructing someone with such great knowledge as yourself, (wipes dust from shoulders lol) but I don’t see this Earth as a prison at all, I think most of us create our own prisons, in our own minds.

If I desired to be here and be human, and even put an argument forward to the higher ups to be here, as you postulated above, then how can this existence on Earth, be seen as a prison…? Surely no one desires (puts argument forward) to go to prison..do they…?





Originally posted by vethumanbeing
I still have a problem with the concept "live the moment" because that precludes even the 'present' (no reference points you see).


So now you’re trying to use my own argument, against me, from our previous discussions on the “thought before the thought” thread…My, how the tables have turned lol…how do I get outa this one…

But you see, “living in the moment” is a figurative expression, it’s not meant to taken literally; in my scenario, you at least have thoughts to keep you company and you have knowledge of the past i.e. memories…

“Living the moment“ and your being in the “NOW” state, are two different things…




Originally posted by vethumanbeing
I am deeply suspicious of my lower self; pretty sure its sneaky and possibly has an underhanded character due to bad genetics (yet to be determined); and even more so of my ironic higher self (VERY dangerous as its the one with the unbridled irreverent sense of humor).


Sounds like a match made in heaven lol what time do you get off for lunch lol…

Seriously though - there’s a lot more to yourself, than just bad points; we can all rack up our bad points, and stick em up on a graph, to gawk at…You see, your also, funny, polite, adventurous, kind hearted, extremely intelligent etc…

There’s three types of people; the glass is half empty types, the glass is half full types, and the, half a glass of water types…

Feel free to mix and match; sometimes it’s not always clear, how much water is in the glass…


- JC



posted on Oct, 22 2014 @ 09:27 PM
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originally posted by: Chronogoblin
a reply to: veteranhumanbeing


Chronogoblin: I think your trying to conceptualize the Creator from within the creation itself. God is not 1's and 0's, the Universe itself may be, but it is just a reflection of the greater reality that we cannot intuitively break-down and express in the manners we are used to. That's one of the things that bothers non-believers, is that they simply cannot imagine God, and it hurts their heads. Well here's the thing, NONE of us can, we who believe simply accept that there are things in this reality which we will never understand, or be able to articulate correctly to instill understanding in another. There are a lot of things in this reality that have to be seen to be believed, well so too there are some things in this existence that have to be believed to be seen.

Is God not the universe; as in created by? I am attempting from my one point perspective (as a limited being) to understand the plan; the creation process. If you are saying the 'Universe' is possibly the actual SUSPECT; creator of God NOW MY EARS ARE PRICKED. Are you saying there is something greater than this universe that created the one we suspect we live within (there is another guy behind the guy behind the curtain)? You speak of a reflection; I call US that exact definition. I think we can understand this problem of non-disclosure; but most do not think it is relevant or the number one priority; (and why not? too busy with the day to day distractions of attempting to make ourselves more comfortable/paying the mortgage/rent making sure there is food on the table). I don't want to accept there is a boundary line set regarding the pursuit of 'enlightenment'. I see the bible as a handsome tool to thwart any other endevours "here is the good news folks (new testament) you now have all of the answers" look no further. I agree, there are some things in this existence (yet to be revealed) that will be seen and believed. Nice post Chronogoblin.
edit on 22-10-2014 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 22 2014 @ 11:00 PM
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originally posted by: Joecroft
a reply to: veteranhumanbeing



vethumanbeing:
Oh, well that's reasonable; (no recognizable 'god' as yet has knocked on your door and presented "the good news" in the form of a magazine subscription or a 1000 dollar Kirby vacuum) don't tempt/taunt me into blindly writing a treatise I know nothing about regarding this subject (nice try though).



Joecroft: Well, to answer your question, a recognisable God has already knocked on my door, in the form of the truth, that’s spoken through Jesus words, but I’m not talking about believing in all of Christianity here, with it’s many contradictions etc but of a greater higher truth not that I claim to know all truththat would just be arrogant and ridiculous lol.

So you admit Jesus is not God; (even as a god aspect as we all are; he is a master (a fully nine dimensional enlightened being). The contradictions are such that none of his apostles were enlightened and muddied the waters; also that his message though surviving 2000 years (much to its credit) is not applicable in this day and age and NOTHING NEW that is recognizable as a 'newer better revamped edited version' has replaced it. I'm speaking of a new Epistle, anything that can speak to our time and space as we perceive it (metaphysics?!) no thing you say would be thought of as ridiculous as you speak from a position of 'being in the faith of' and I respect this.

vethumanbeing:
No I am not saying strong/weak forces randomly have car wrecks (accidents, collision insurance claims).
I'm saying that without Chaos or random acts of violence within atomic structures/universal there would be no odd ball bad behavior that could/would have the potential to form solid matter.


Joecroft: So let me get this straight, you’re saying that through Chaos/Random Acts of violent collisions, at the sub-atomic level, we eventually get up and running to solid matter…? Wow!!!… Russell's teapot is searching for the evidence.

Do you have a better metaphor for the violence that occurs at sub-atomic levels that creates matter?

vethumanbeing:... you are quoting directly from any episodes of Monty Python's BBC TV production series or one of two full length feature film dramatizations: "In Search of the Holy Grail" or "Life of Brian" (feel free to quote 'The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy" if puzzled).


Joecroft: Why didn’t you say so earlier…as luck would have it, I’m with the Knights who see “knee”…we have on going battles/discussions with the “Spanish Inquisition”…in regards to the Grail and the life of JC.

Yes YOU if there is any reason to bring Master Jesus to the forefront as a Templar/Templeton (as innocently done so in a sneaky manner, but I left that door wide open) you will take the advantage point. I'd like to be fly on the wall listening to your group discussions regarding the Spanish Inquisition; suspecting some of you are Catholics (the judgers) and some innocent victim Mennonite Smurfs.

vethumanbeing:
I answered my own OP statement (QUESTION) on page 2 (usually I have the answer beforehand) this time I jumped the gun (too excited) but realized the answer BEFORE ANYONE ELSE and wound up on page 2; I hope this clears things up.



Joecroft: So you asked the question, without knowing the answer first…wow, that takes guts and shows real seeking IMO…So how and when did you have an epiphany, by page 2…?

I sought the advice of a similar being and it told me the answer in very real clear cut terms (thank you for noticing that out of character slip/hiccup) and commenting on it.


vethumanbeing:
Why would 'god' allow evil to live along side love unless it realizes there must be a polarity as the causal for change?



Joecroft: Well, yes, one can look at it from the perspective of soul development, which can’t take place, unless both polarities exist etc…The other way to look at it, has to do with free will, where God allows us to be completely free within this life experience.

There are clues here for humankind; crumbs of information left in the 'great books'. Soul development is the main driver and the allowance of free or self will is the keystone; even if embarked on a life of crime and you were ALL IN is acceptable.

vethumanbeing:
Its not about the material; no one sneaks into Disneyland for free. You desired to be a human and if that involved convincing the higher-ups you would not waste this space afforded (many others were in the cue waiting) you apparently made a good enough argument.


Joecroft: I wonder what my argument was…probably something Like “Hey, I’m free, and I desire to live life to the fullest)…I hate to be instructing someone with such great knowledge as yourself, (wipes dust from shoulders lol) but I don’t see this Earth as a prison at all, I think most of us create our own prisons, in our own minds. If I desired to be here and be human, and even put an argument forward to the higher ups to be here, as you postulated above, then how can this existence on Earth, be seen as a prison…? Surely no one desires (puts argument forward) to go to prison..do they?


The prison I refer to is the fact we are made of 'heavy matter' or exist in density 3/4. We cant transport ourselves to other locations; or change/create environs at whim, we have access to all knowledge (akashic). You chose the specific hardship of being a heavy body in 3D; (everyone told you its not as easy as you think). You should be instructing someone ELSE other than me with greater gifts of knowledge/ trickery.

Joecroft: So now you’re trying to use my own argument, against me, from our previous discussions on the “thought before the thought” thread…My, how the tables have turned lol…how do I get outa this one…But you see, “living in the moment” is a figurative expression, it’s not meant to taken literally; in my scenario, you at least have thoughts to keep you company and you have knowledge of the past i.e. memories…“Living the moment“ and your being in the “NOW” state, are two different things.

I would not do such a thing; unfair play. Living in the moment is almost impossible to achieve; I imagine one can do so living in a cave in Tibet if all material things are provided.


vethumanbeing:
I am deeply suspicious of my lower self; pretty sure its sneaky and possibly has an underhanded character due to bad genetics (yet to be determined); and even more so of my ironic higher self (VERY dangerous as its the one with the unbridled irreverent sense of humor).



Joecroft: Seriously though - there’s a lot more to yourself, than just bad points; we can all rack up our bad points, and stick em up on a graph, to gawk at…You see, youre also, funny, polite, adventurous, kind hearted, extremely intelligent etc…
There’s three types of people; the glass is half empty types, the glass is half full types, and the, half a glass of water types…
Feel free to mix and match; sometimes it’s not always clear, how much water is in the glass…

Kind words; though the bad points equalize the good ones (a perfectly balanced Bad/Good individual). My glass of liquid (pick any poison) I trust (in some higher authority) will ALWAYS be full to the brim.
edit on 22-10-2014 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 23 2014 @ 12:36 AM
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originally posted by: Rex282
a reply to: veteranhumanbeing


VetH:
The purpose of my Walt Disney analogy was to simplify the infinitely complex that I know almost nothing of.I was not trying to draw guidelines of the way “existence” works I was only making an analogy to proclaim there is a logic in the cosmic soup of chaotic entropy that is in effect… a perfect storm.

However it is impossible for mankind to “observe” the Truth the whole Truth and nothing but the Truth because their perception is very finite and does not even reach the end of their nose.(yes Pinocchio would be the wisest boy ever but he is not a real boy!)

The wooden puppet Pinocchio (an unreal or not animated facsimile boy seeking perfection/animation) is the metaphor for the imperfect human seeking its higher self. Your analogies are fine; inspiring/creative. How does one take the complex form, taking it down to its simplest components. Entropy is stasis/static buildup; this is not where change happens, its actually stuck; so what kicks this reference point into jump starting a different expression of itself.


Rex282: The universal point is IF there is a creator God( I say “if” because “just” creator God is definitely not an completely accurate term) then their creation is NOT themselves.At most creation is something in “relationship” to them.In other words it all comes down to simple math….a ratio.Math is the ONLY Truth that man can perceive without revelation because it is self evident and all of creation is made of and from math.

There is no IF (for me) in doubt of any understanding that a higher being created the human being. I'm concerned; did the Universe create God or Did the brilliant Human; with tremendous imagination and finesse outsmart potential; and create god (dream an idea into existence). I am not Groking your mathematics yet (how it applies to my human experience), I'm more of a geometry 'hello kitty sort' but don't take offense at what you might see as complete/total ignorance.


edit on 23-10-2014 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 23 2014 @ 01:35 AM
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originally posted by: Rex282
This may seem like a simple equation yet EVERYTHING that has or ever will exists was created through it.It is the sum of the father and son.It created another digit that is “separate” from unity but is “made” of the sum of unity simultaneously.Btw in Hebrew the word translated “holy” means separate.Notice the ratio has now changed and is smaller than it’s parts

1÷2=0.5
and multiplied ..simultaneously!!
2÷1=2

this push/pull is going to be the pattern of ratios from now on in the sequence. Every time a new number is “created” it is added to the previous(called recursive) then they are divided to sum a ratio.
Fn2+Fn3=Fn4
1+2=3
Fn4=3

2÷3=0.666…
3÷2=1.5
This is forming the perfect “unity”(1) ratio in a multitude of ways.Eventually the ratio of two adjacent Fn sum to the number mathematicians call phi or Phi.Unfortunately it seems many mathematicians (and scientist) have very little interest in an irrational number(a number that never resolves) except by observation of what it “did”.They like to keep their numbers as tidy as possible so they observed a way to calculate it that doesn’t have so many calculations that constantly “change”.


IS this expressing what is known the 'golden MEAN'. Within what is called 'hidden' knowledge existing Pythagorium ; the hypotenuse of the side of a triangle to opposite the right angle (or angel/angel whatever exists top to bottom, above below and circumference).MAGIC. You realize Archangels are actually a metaphor for Archangles.



Rex282: Phi is summed in this simple calculation
√5+1÷2=1.618,033,988,749,895…….
or as is usually written
1.618,033
The “core” number is 1.618 which Phi “wants to resolve to but never does and as it is calculated through the Fn it will keep moving “0” to the right but will always have numbers after it.This is very significant because it mirrors the infinite process of creation…but off the subject of philosophy and back to “real”reality… math.

I’m going to skip ahead through the Fn calculations(you can find them in many of my posts) to what is in relationship to mans condition in the process(ooops PHILOSOPHY!!).The creation process is ALL about ratio’s ….this is “observed” in clarity of the Fn calculations of phi/Phi.

When a “lower” Fn is divided by it’s sequential higher Fn it sums “phi”.
When a higher Fn is divided by the same Fn it sums “Phi”
Fn11÷Fn12
89÷144=0.618,055,555…..
Fn13÷Fn12
233÷144=1.618,055,555…..

This calculations are superior to √5+1÷2=Phi because they sum phi AND Phi and observe the “growth” in “unity.

The ratio of 1:0.618…or 1:1.618…is called the Golden Ratio.It has a simple a+b=c type equation but right now it confuses the issue(even though is the deeper meaning).The following calculations will illuminate why phi and Phi are the most unique and significant numbers in the creation process.

1÷0.618033988749895=1.618033988749895
1÷1.618033988749895=0.618033988749895

this is the only number that sums this ratio.It is in a “perfect “ratio to “1”.The Fn when calculated always produce/sum a phi then a Phi ratio with the same divisor because that is how the creator God is “producing” everything.In essence everything “grows” in a process in a phi/Phi ratio to the creator God”unity”.This very simple calculation is the encapsulation of all creation.Everything else is mere speculation of babel(the confusion of words) in comparison.Math is the Truth language.If the “terms” are correct and summed correctly it will produce Truth.

The conundrum is “what can be “done” (by mankind) with these numbers..the answer is everything and nothing.It is the creator Gods equation.They are the one who is creating everything else(you) is IN the equation and part of the calculation(creation process).Whatever it is the sum will always be .the Golden ratio…it can be nothing else.The fact is the physical realm/universe has not been summed in time/space yet because of it’s nature.In essence time is space being calculated and summed.It is not until it is summed the next leg of the equation starts.Presently it has been calculated through observance the universe will eventually die by self consumption in trillions of trillions of multiple trillions of years or tomorrow or the next second the fact is it doesn’t matter when or how it just means that part of the equation is summed.

It's the part we cannot predict; the 'sticky bits' unknown I am most interested in. The universe is unknowable; if someone (even you figured it out) someone somewhere would be pushing that big red button labeled "DONT PRESS THIS NO MATTER WHAT CIRCUMSTANCE" ending everything we know to re-boot back to C: PROMPT and hope all will reappear all over again exact (no one on planet to remember this debacle). I have no thought about the universe consuming itself (IT WOULDNT); it is self creating/sustaining, just as the Earth will never run out of Fossil fuel for the human to consume; (fallacy here its not about the dinosaurs as big engines that could) the earth is a powerplant that makes this substance every day like the champ it is; and will do so as long as it wants to exist or nurture us. I'm fairly sure that when 'god' has exhausted its experience here (through us having nothing else to add anymore to its knowledge) it will think of another diabolical plan that will spin itself into another direction of thought (fairly certain a revamp dinosaur dynasty will not be revisited).


Rex282: The bottom line fact is the creator God is the unity.EVERYTHING has been done by and through them.To call them infinitely complex is an understatement.To compare the most intelligent being to the creator would be the same as comparing the creators intelligent to a rock.

What makes a rock any less in importance than to a centipede or a pinion pine tree or a cloud; you say unity so are all connected magnetically, energetically. Some are more animated than others is all.


Rex282The bottom line fact is NONE of mankind is the creator God the Father NOR the son of the creator God nor ever will be by any stretch of a chickens imagination.Mankind is nothing but Chicken Little proclaiming the sky is falling because blue looks very light….There is no “enlightenment” there is no ascension” there is no as above so it is below..religion,spirituality,mysticism are ALL false… NONE have been born anew NONE are even ALIVE yet .To believe any of those things is hubris of the highest order of insanity.

Brave words; you hold true to your bottom line? I say all of mankind (or feathered chicken littles) as Gods best expression EVER are its main cheerleader; its conscious thoughts ALONE contemplating a godlike POTENTIAL as a creator made it a solid enough concept (the human wrote books about this that are very popular) that it accidently POPPED AS AN IDEA FORM INTO BEINGNESS.


Rex282: The fact is mankind is on a strong dose of blue pills “sleeping” in the matrix dreaming of life and believing they are ALIVE when they are in the valley of the shadows of death and LIFE.When they wake up from counting sheep they will be calculated and summed as phi…then Phi…then phi…then Phi…and so on for infinity….the numbers don’t lie.

I'd rather count the chickens (before they hatch) and let the sheep have a good nights sleep before waking up to see their twin lambs go to slaughter.
edit on 23-10-2014 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 23 2014 @ 02:18 AM
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How do you exhaust infinity ?



posted on Oct, 23 2014 @ 02:39 AM
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originally posted by: Jeroenske
How do you exhaust infinity ?

Exhaust God defined as Infinity? I don't know; but if in 'confronting mode' infinity itself should be your wily/hidden focus. I certainly would'nt want to pick (exposing myself) at fresh scabs, anger/piss off/rock any boats regarding automatically turned over to its more appropriate doppleganger sibling twin "AfterInfinity" (that one is an unknown uncertain commodity possibly dangerous). Better question would be how does one 'accommodate instead' those things unknown; confronting "How Soon Is Now" with bold questioning would be a better choice (less of a threatening reaction/safer) and probably would like to know if you had any available unmarried sisters.
edit on 23-10-2014 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 24 2014 @ 12:13 AM
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a reply to: vethumanbeing
If ‘God’ is looking for the full expression of all experience…I really don’t want to be the one to experience total abandonment (sh*t out of the universe/existence into a floating bubble forever)…

I recognize that this is a/the possibility…and/but have lived through ‘believing’ it – and, it is the most depressing & terrifying of all potentials (that I have considered).

Makes one wonder if this isn’t “why” the world came into being ( ‘God’ was lonely ).

I have thoroughly enjoyed the thread.

--------------

ETA:
I sometimes wonder if the "whole world" isn't 'God'...or...
I wonder if 'this' (as displayed in the video) isn't 'God' - 'You' - 'Me' ...talking to Him/Her/It - or Your - or My - (lower) Self(/ves).
(my apology - I posted this video on another thread near the time of this post...considered how it might actually be worth presenting...to the OP's question... Then, chose to leave it there...and add it...here)


edit on 10/24/2014 by WanDash because: editing to add

edit on 10/24/2014 by WanDash because: flip-flops



posted on Oct, 24 2014 @ 06:26 PM
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a reply to: vethumanbeing



Originally posted by vethumanbeing
So you admit Jesus is not God; (even as a god aspect as we all are; he is a master (a fully nine dimensional enlightened being).


”Admit” lol

I’ve never said Jesus is the Father…although I have described him in a few different ways, but not as the Father, which is what I assume you mean by the term God…? Although I do believe that the Father spoke through Jesus…which is why so many people have spiritual connections/experiences through Jesus words…

What do mean by “fully nine dimensional being”…?



Originally posted by vethumanbeing
The contradictions are such that none of his apostles were enlightened and muddied the waters; also that his message though surviving 2000 years (much to its credit) is not applicable in this day and age and NOTHING NEW that is recognizable as a 'newer better revamped edited version' has replaced it.


Yes contradictions do exist, and evidence of additions also exists…




Originally posted by vethumanbeing
I'm speaking of a new Epistle, anything that can speak to our time and space as we perceive it (metaphysics?!) no thing you say would be thought of as ridiculous as you speak from a position of 'being in the faith of' and I respect this.


But I’m not “in the faith of”…faith is only meant to be stepping stone, in searching for the truth…IMO

No faith here; (other than what God does in my life etc)…I’m with The knowledge of the HOLY…A fully realized being, of a unique perspective…




Originally posted by Joecroft
So let me get this straight, you’re saying that through Chaos/Random Acts of violent collisions, at the sub-atomic level, we eventually get up and running to solid matter…? Wow!!!… Russell's teapot is searching for the evidence.




Originally posted by vethumanbeing
Do you have a better metaphor for the violence that occurs at sub-atomic levels that creates matter?


I don’t have a metaphor for it at all…I’ve never had the need…lol …you see I don’t accept/believe the premise…i.e. Random violent collisions producing solid matter…

A guess a good way to describe it, would be (To paraphrase Jesus) a miracle of miracles, aka “a wonder of wonders…” lol




Originally posted by vethumanbeing
I sought the advice of a similar being and it told me the answer in very real clear cut terms (thank you for noticing that out of character slip/hiccup) and commenting on it.


Hmmmm I wonder who it was and what advice they gave exactly…




Originally posted by vethumanbeing
There are clues here for humankind; crumbs of information left in the 'great books'. Soul development is the main driver and the allowance of free or self will is the keystone; even if embarked on a life of crime and you were ALL IN is acceptable.


You mean “acceptable” in the sense, that they would eventually learn and grow from it, through the Karmic Law…?



Originally posted by vethumanbeing
The prison I refer to is the fact we are made of 'heavy matter' or exist in density 3/4. We cant transport ourselves to other locations; or change/create environs at whim, we have access to all knowledge (akashic). You chose the specific hardship of being a heavy body in 3D; (everyone told you its not as easy as you think). You should be instructing someone ELSE other than me with greater gifts of knowledge/ trickery.


When people achieve higher spiritual knowledge they can achieve “out of body”, so not so much trapped, unless without said knowledge etc…also this 3D existence is only temporary experience, which we/us/them chose to experience. You still think this is prison…?…If you can change your perspective, then it might change you…

As for instructing someone else, the best teachers I’m aware of don’t force their beliefs onto others, instead they gently connect with their minds and spirits…at times, their teachings are so subtle, that most are not even aware of it…




Originally posted by vethumanbeing
I would not do such a thing; unfair play. Living in the moment is almost impossible to achieve; I imagine one can do so living in a cave in Tibet if all material things are provided.


“Almost impossible”, phew!!!…that was close…lol




Originally posted by vethumanbeing
Kind words; though the bad points equalize the good ones (a perfectly balanced Bad/Good individual). My glass of liquid (pick any poison) I trust (in some higher authority) will ALWAYS be full to the brim.


Always full ehh…

Well, good luck carrying it all the way up the Great Wall of China, to the monk who’s waiting for you at the top…without spilling a drop…

I’ll see you up there, my glass is half full…lol

- JC



edit on 24-10-2014 by Joecroft because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 24 2014 @ 07:26 PM
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originally posted by: WanDash
a reply to: veteranhumanbeing

Wandash; If ‘God’ is looking for the full expression of all experience…I really don’t want to be the one to experience total abandonment (sh*t out of the universe/existence into a floating bubble forever)…

I recognize that this is a/the possibility…and/but have lived through ‘believing’ it – and, it is the most depressing & terrifying of all potentials (that I have considered).

Makes one wonder if this isn’t “why” the world came into being ( ‘God’ was lonely ).

Terrifying to be sure; (huge abandonment issues to be formed; another archetype) creating latch key humans. You are of the same understanding (hypothecically) as I. YES, GOD must have been LONELY. God says to itself "well this existence of mine (am I dreaming) is infinitely (I could be making myself up); is boring as well". So perhaps created something to at least give itself another perspective (even if its pathological and hearing voices).


Wandash: I have thoroughly enjoyed the thread.
ETA:
I sometimes wonder if the "whole world" isn't 'God'...or...
I wonder if 'this' (as displayed in the video) isn't 'God' - 'You' - 'Me' ...talking to Him/Her/It - or Your - or My - (lower) Self(/ves).
(my apology - I posted this video on another thread near the time of this post...considered how it might actually be worth presenting...to the OP's question... Then, chose to leave it there...and add it...here)


Thank you Wandash for your comments; no need to wonder if the 'whole world' isn't God; IT IS but 'someone' forgot to let us minions in on the joke or that simple/major secret (I love Tom Petty, nice touch).
edit on 24-10-2014 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 24 2014 @ 08:37 PM
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originally posted by: Joecroft
a reply to: veteranhumanbeing


vethumanbeing:
So you admit Jesus is not God; (even as a god aspect as we all are; he is a master (a fully nine dimensional enlightened being).



Joecroft: ”Admit”
I’ve never said Jesus is the Father…although I have described him in a few different ways, but not as the Father, which is what I assume you mean by the term God…? Although I do believe that the Father spoke through Jesus…which is why so many people have spiritual connections/experiences through Jesus words…What do mean by “fully nine dimensional being?

Oh JESUS; here we go. There is a myth in the Maya culture that Jesus was incubated in the Temple of the Sun; 200 years (BC). It took that many years to down step this immaterial star-dust being into a human form that could tolerate the 3D in so doing retained the 9.. As 5th dimensional beings the ancient Maya knew how to do this as they did this themselves to incarnate. Now remember (as a myth, and we all know myths have basis in truth) at 0 AD inserted this being in the Middle East where it would do the most good; a hub of human activity, trade, Roman oppression, flailing religious dogmas (no reason place it in Madagascar). Having the Fully nine dimensional aspects are the Quabala down stepping from Kether (immaterial matter form); idea to Malkuth-matter form. Nine steps in the tree of life included. You are ascending from matter to spiritual; Jesus descended from spirit form to physical. I never said you said Jesus was "Father" though I have a problem with that nomenclature. God is neither Male or Female; just a balance of both energy intent.

vethumanbeing:
The contradictions are such that none of his apostles were enlightened and muddied the waters; also that his message though surviving 2000 years (much to its credit) is not applicable in this day and age and NOTHING NEW that is recognizable as a 'newer better revamped edited version' has replaced it.


Joecroft: Yes contradictions do exist, and evidence of additions also exists.

If so I'd like to hear them unless you think the 'Book of Morman' applies.



vethumanbeing:
I'm speaking of a new Epistle, anything that can speak to our time and space as we perceive it (metaphysics?!) no thing you say would be thought of as ridiculous as you speak from a position of 'being in the faith of' and I respect this.


Joecroft: But I’m not “in the faith of”faith is only meant to be stepping stone, in searching for the truth…IMO
No faith here; (other than what God does in my life etc)I’m with The knowledge of the HOLY A fully realized being, of a unique perspective.

Faith as a stepping stone to the truth? Never heard it called that. Faith is having a belief in an unknown that you TRUST blindly to be TRUE (or resonates as) a convenient dodge. I have no idea how "holy" works any magic here, (he who is the fastest gets the most in reward) can do no wrong/revered, iconic untouchable. (a former catholic told me this).

Joecroft: So let me get this straight, you’re saying that through Chaos/Random Acts of violent collisions, at the sub-atomic level, we eventually get up and running to solid matter?


vethumanbeing:
Do you have a better metaphor for the violence that occurs at sub-atomic levels that creates matter?


Joecroft: I don’t have a metaphor for it at all…I’ve never had the need…lol …you see I don’t accept/believe the premise…i.e. Random violent collisions producing solid matter…
A guess a good way to describe it, would be (To paraphrase Jesus) a miracle of miracles, aka “a wonder of wonders…”

Forgetting Chaos, you are then of the opinion Stasis/entropy produces nothing as well? Look at the world; its violent history regarding man kinds endevours to own each other as slave taking over their territories; (any Ghandi tactic taken resulted in a total takeover). The love/submission method has NEVER WORKED.


vethumanbeing:
I sought the advice of a similar being and it told me the answer in very real clear cut terms (thank you for noticing that out of character slip/hiccup) and commenting on it.


Joecroft: I wonder who it was and what advice they gave exactly

That being told me this: "we have had this conversation in depth already but I will reiterate it so as you remember your responses". Its always about me.


vethumanbeing:
There are clues here for humankind; crumbs of information left in the 'great books'. Soul development is the main driver and the allowance of free or self will is the keystone; even if embarked on a life of crime and you were ALL IN is acceptable.


Joecroft: You mean “acceptable” in the sense, that they would eventually learn and grow from it, through the Karmic Law…?

Yeah but you acquired automatic Karma at birth from past lives and acquiring in this one (you are supposed to take care of in one lifetime) LUDICRUSE assumption (not possible) INSANE PREMISE that is FLAWED.


Joecroft: When people achieve higher spiritual knowledge they can achieve “out of body”, so not so much trapped, unless without said knowledge etc…also this 3D existence is only temporary experience, which we/us/them chose to experience. You still think this is prison…?…If you can change your perspective, then it might change you…
As for instructing someone else, the best teachers I’m aware of don’t force their beliefs onto others, instead they gently connect with their minds and spirits…at times, their teachings are so subtle, that most are not even aware of it…

Yes, its a prison I feel my body, and gravity blows (that and I cannot instantly make things 'just so' by thinking them into being). You go out of body everytime you have a vivid dream (just not aware of it). I'm not in the 'instruction' business, so not a teacher (you should read this newer thread: "I am not a prophet or a physic and shouldn't be alive" but seems to be attempting to teach something (yet to be revealed).


vethumanbeing:
I would not do such a thing; unfair play. Living in the moment is almost impossible to achieve; I imagine one can do so living in a cave in Tibet if all material things are provided.



Joecroft: “Almost impossible”, phew!!!that was close.

Yeah, you would need an entire village to support your carnal wants and eventual REQUIREMENTS.


vethumanbeing: the bad points equalize the good ones (a perfectly balanced Bad/Good individual). My glass of liquid (pick any poison) I trust (in some higher authority) will ALWAYS be full to the brim.



Joecroft: Always full ehh…Well, good luck carrying it all the way up the Great Wall of China, to the monk who’s waiting for you at the top…without spilling a drop… I’ll see you up there, my glass is half full…lol

I have no need to see the great wall. A Progressive Insurance commercial put that in perspective for me: a group of giant Mongols are trying to figure out how to breach this very formidable wall, rubbing their chins and scratching their heads. One decides to step over it (as it was only from their perspective 12' high). Someone will always be available to fill your glass if you ask.


edit on 24-10-2014 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 24 2014 @ 10:17 PM
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a reply to: vethumanbeing




Originally posted by vethumanbeing
Oh JESUS; here we go. There is a myth (a truth as all myths have basis in truth) in the Maya culture that Jesus was incubated in the Temple of the Sun; 200 years (BC). It took that many years to down step this immaterial star-dust being into a human form that could tolerate the 3D.

As 5th dimensional beings the ancient Maya knew how to do this as they did this themselves to incarnate. Now remember (as a myth, and we all know myths have basis in truth) at 0 AD inserted this being in the Middle East where it would do the most good; a hub of human activity, trade, Roman oppression, flailing religious dogmas (no reason place it in Madagascar). Having the Fully nine dimensional aspects are the Quabala down stepping from Kether (immaterial matter form); idea to Malkuth-matter form. Nine steps in the tree of life included. You are ascending from matter to spiritual; Jesus descended from spirit form to physical. I never said you said Jesus was "Father" though I have a problem with that nomenclature. God is neither Male or Female; just a balance of both energy intentions.


Yes of course, the Father is not male or female but both IMO…I heard the voice once (twice actually) and it sounded gentle and powerful at the same time…so I later concluded that God was both….




Originally posted by vethumanbeing
Faith as a stepping stone to the truth? Never heard it called that.


Of course faith isn’t called that lol (this reminds me of a Monty Python sketch lol ) I’m describing how I think faith should be used i.e. not as a crutch, but as a starting point, in searching for truth…you with me…?




Originally posted by vethumanbeing
Faith is having a belief in an unknown that you TRUST blindly to be TRUE (or resonates as) a convenient dodge. I have no idea how "holy" works any magic here, (he who is the fastest gets the most in reward) can do no wrong/revered, iconic untouchable. (a former catholic told me this).


Yes, faith is a hope that God is real/exists etc, like you rightly said…but most people live in the hope forever/indefinitely…when IMO it’s only supposed to be a “hope” that should help get your there; where?, I hear you ask…to the “born again” spiritual experience…




Originally posted by vethumanbeing
Forgetting Chaos, you are then of the opinion Stasis/entropy produces nothing as well?


It’s not about the movement or the non-movement lol, it’s the randomness I’m not happy with lol I prefer structured, albeit complex collisions, that are in actuality, guided!!!…And only then, are we up and running, to solid matter…You see, just slight twist to your concept/theory…

Yes, I know what you’re gona say, Russels teapot is searching for that evidence too…



Originally posted by Joecroft
You mean “acceptable” in the sense, that they would eventually learn and grow from it, through the Karmic Law…?




Originally posted by vethumanbeing
Yeah but you acquired automatic Karma at birth from past lives and acquiring in this one (you are supposed to take care of in one lifetime) LUDICRUSE assumption (not possible) INSANE PREMISE that is FLAWED.


Who ever said you had to take of all of it, in one lifetime…???…Unless there is a way to balance out all karma, in one lifetime….




Originally posted by vethumanbeing
Yes, its a prison I feel my body, and gravity blows (that and I cannot instantly make things so just by thinking the into being). You go out of body everytime you have a vivid dream (just not aware of it).


I feel my body too, but it’s not a prison, in my mind at least…The word prison kind of implies being trapped, which isn’t the case being only temporary and OBE/options etc…also the word “prison” gives a sense of being sent somewhere you didn’t wish to come (against will), but as you mentioned earlier, we pleaded with higher ups to come here…so I don’t think the word/term “prison” can be a correct one… just my opinion though…



Originally posted by vethumanbeing
I'm not in the 'instruction' business, so not a teacher


Everyone's a teacher and everyone's a student…

For example, you have given information and instructed others on aspects of the Quabbalic “Tree of life”….that’s when you were a teacher /instructor of sorts…

And your out of character (as you described it yourself) asking a question you didn’t know the answer too, and then receiving an answer; that was when you were a student….



Originally posted by vethumanbeing
(you should read this newer thread: "I am not a prophet or a physic and shouldn't be alive" but seems to be attempting to teach something (yet to be revealed).


Catchy title lol

Do you think I should make an appearance, on that thread…?




Originally posted by Joecroft
“Almost impossible”, phew!!!that was close.




Originally posted by vethumanbeing
Yeah, you would need an entire village to support your carnal wants and eventual REQUIREMENTS.


Can we go back to the cave in Tibet analogy lol




Originally posted by vethumanbeing
I have no need to see the great wall. A Progressive Insurance commercial put that in perspective for me: a group of giant Mongols are trying to figure out how to breach this very formidable wall, rubbing their chins and scratching their heads. One decides to step over it (as it was only from their perspective 12' high). Someone will always be available to fill your glass if you let them.


It’s not the wall your there to see, it’s the monk and the top of the steps…”don’t focus on the finger, or you’ll miss all the heavenly glory” lol

Haven’t you heard the one about emptying your cup…?


- JC



edit on 24-10-2014 by Joecroft because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 24 2014 @ 11:20 PM
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originally posted by: Joecroft
a reply to: veteranhumanbeing, getting rid of important quotes as they can be overlooked

Joecroft: Yes of course, the Father is not male or female but both IMO…I heard the voice once (twice actually) and it sounded gentle and powerful at the same time…so I later concluded that God was both.

You don't get the occasional sonic boom/bomb; startled awake thinking your house is in ruins? The voice was whispering to you but forcefully? I am glad you at the time could reason pragmatically that God was 'indistinct'/hiding from itself/or not in knowing (to be kind) regarding its potential sexuality. The thing never thinks these things through--just throws the ideas out for us to tussle with.


vethumanbeing:
Faith as a stepping stone to the truth? Never heard it called that.



Joecroft: Of course faith isn’t called that(this reminds me of a Monty Python sketch ) I’m describing how I think faith should be used i.e. not as a crutch, but as a starting point, in searching for truth…you with me…?

Yes I am; and realize Monty Pythons great and powerful wisdom; its HAND IN all THIS as describing/demonstrating how popular culture when eaten regularly tells the infinite truths.

vethumanbeing:
Faith is having a belief in an unknown that you TRUST blindly to be TRUE (or resonates as) a convenient dodge. I have no idea how "holy" works any magic here, (he who is the fastest gets the most in reward) can do no wrong/revered, iconic untouchable. (a former catholic told me this).



Joecroft: Yes, faith is a hope that God is real/exists etc, like you rightly said…but most people live in the hope forever/indefinitely…when IMO it’s only supposed to be a “hope” that should help get your there; where?, I hear you ask…to the “born again” spiritual experience.

Who me (looking about) is someone finger pointing in my direction (I'll duck). Most people; you have high ambitions here that are NOBLE. I suppose anything that can get you onto Jobs/Jacobs ladder of ascent (masonic temple path 1) is a good excuse to fall off. If a 'born again' experience works why not; it only needs to fit that individuals progress soulwise (like a key turning the tumblers in a lock), any method that works is correct.

vethumanbeing:
Forgetting Chaos, you are then of the opinion Stasis/entropy produces nothing as well? Maybe a tasty pretty pudding?



Joecroft: It’s not about the movement or the non-movement , it’s the randomness I’m not happy with , I prefer structured, albeit complex collisions, that are in actuality, guided!!!…And only then, are we up and running, to solid matter…You see, just slight twist to your concept/theory. Yes, I know what you’re gona say, Russels teapot is searching for that evidence too…

You are unhappy with 'randomness' because its unpredictable (WHAT COULD BE THE POTENTIAL THE SCARY OUTCOME). Hey, geometry is structured/assured. Look at water at a molecular level: take two identical water samples; one glass is told/labeled "I hate you" the other "I love you" and witness how WATER reacts to the simple emotion from a human (oh the resulting warping of the molecule is astounding). results in lava sludge, the other pristine snowflakes. So Russels teapot just needs some cups to accompany it, a cream pot and sugar bowl (and a human to direct the tea service; better have layered sugar frosted cake).


Originally posted by vethumanbeing
Yes, its a prison I feel my body, and gravity blows (that and I cannot instantly make things so just by thinking the into being). You go out of body everytime you have a vivid dream (just not aware of it).



Joecroft: I feel my body too, but it’s not a prison, in my mind at least…The word prison kind of implies being trapped, which isn’t the case being only temporary and OBE/options etc…also the word “prison” gives a sense of being sent somewhere you didn’t wish to come (against will), but as you mentioned earlier, we pleaded with higher ups to come here…so I don’t think the word/term “prison” can be a correct one… just my opinion though…


I'm just a whiner who occasionally barks the loudest to get the immediate attention; nice to see you are coming into an understanding *not my doing*.


Joecroft: Everyone's a teacher and everyone's a student…For example, you have given information and instructed others on aspects of the Quabbalic “Tree of life”….that’s when you were a teacher /instructor of sorts…And your out of character (as you described it yourself) asking a question you didn’t know the answer too, and then receiving an answer; that was when you were a student.

I respectfully laugh and decline any notion that I am a 'teacher'; I've always been a pundit observer (I HOPE A GOOD LISTENER).

vethumanbeing:
(you should read this newer thread: "I am not a prophet or a physic and shouldn't be alive" but seems to be attempting to teach something (yet to be revealed).



Joecroft: Catchy title lol Do you think I should make an appearance, on that thread…?

I wouldn't recommend it but I did going against all good reasoning. It has every fundamental characteristic to be the new 1963s edition of 'MAD' Magazines subject/topic for the month; the film review "The Ten Commandments" including the added BONUS extraterrestrial encounters Moses had with "Archteturans", SIC spelled the name of his teachers; the nephlim SIC wrong. And no, we cannot revisit Buddha and his REAL versus imagined carnal wants.


Joecroft regarding the half cup empty: It’s not the wall your there to see, it’s the monk and the top of the steps…”don’t focus on the finger, or you’ll miss all the heavenly glory”
Haven’t you heard the one about emptying your cup…?


Only if its to mark territory and this substance you don't want to drink.






edit on 24-10-2014 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)

edit on 24-10-2014 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 25 2014 @ 04:37 PM
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a reply to: vethumanbeing

VetH

The bottom bottom line is.....Truths purpose is to”be what it will be”what it ISN”T is dogmatic religious theology or solipsist “spiritual" philosophy or mystic magic….it’s a toss up to which is the most mundane and meaningless but since the zeitgeist is mystic religion I’m going with mystic theology.I am positive the creator God could careless about that crap also because they are creating art not espousing false theories about nothing(religion).

The “fact” is EVERYTHING is created by and through math.It is the creators “medium”.NOT “magic” mysticism or religious spiritualism.That's all “words” in someones mind they made into an image through the figment of their imagination of something that doesn’t exist....They may as well espouse a theory for the taste of purple…........purple rain, purple rain……dream on.




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