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Hallucinogenic Plants May Be Key to Decoding Ancient Southwestern Paintings

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posted on Oct, 20 2014 @ 10:43 AM
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a reply to: HarryJoy

Please break up that huge wall of text.

And what does that have to do with the topic ?






Hallucinogenic Plants May Be Key to Decoding Ancient Southwestern Paintings




posted on Oct, 20 2014 @ 10:51 AM
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a reply to: skunkape23
I wasn't knocking anything, I was in awe of the information you posted



posted on Oct, 20 2014 @ 10:53 AM
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Firstly i'm interested in your reply to Punkinworks re z-pinch aurora - are you suggesting that the specific petroglyphs in the particular locations you mention represent a lighting-like phenomena, which is then personified in myth? Entirely likely imo - if you can post some pics that would add to the thread



originally posted by: 131415

I have no illusions as to ancient mans intelligence.



It is not my suggestion that you do, merely to correct the fallacy that prehistoric man's life was a pure survival struggle with a lack of resources.



Make no mistake though the world was a very dangerous place. We take so much for granted today. Look at some of the megafaunal species that existed in North America 10-13k ago. Look at the cataclysmic events unfolding during the End of the last Ice Age.



Sure, but it proved more dangerous to the megafauna, many of whom are excavated with nice points still embedded in their bones. I'll assume you know how long people practice before they can make a decent clovis for example. Why take all that time to learn fluting on a point's base and break all of those previous efforts when you can just make a biface and wrap it in sinew? For me it's art (which is ofc also practical) and a cultural marker and it requires free time to develop that.




The CIA used "Psychedelics" to derail a legitimate anti-war movement in the 1960's - we call it the Peace/Love Movement. Portraying protestors as freeloading drug addicts with no grasp on economic realities. It succeeded wonderfully.


I see the same thing being used to derail legitimate research into Ancient Man. - Its aliens! They were drug addicts! They didn't know how to draw accurate human begins - they're so stupid!!!



I have never represented prehistoric man as either drug addicts or stupid. Just as a bit of personal background i trained in Archaeology and am a primitive technologist, i've taught basic flint knapping etc, take a look at a few of my threads


(eta: the peace and love movement was never going to take over the whole world and was youthful idealism on blotters and microdots, no one needed force feeding '___', not many in academia confuse hallucinogens/entheogens with addiction either)





Ultimately regardless of the design inspirations for Rock Art/Cave Paintings - collectively we need to start perceiving ancient man as a legitimate resource for information. Rather than the primitive apes they have been portrayed to be. While we may not understand the context - they are attempting to tell future generations something significant. In many cases to intentionally preserve it.


I have great respect for our ancestors, sometimes i hardly shut up about them - you really are preaching to the choir here!
edit on 20-10-2014 by skalla because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 20 2014 @ 12:20 PM
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re: Scalla

Sorry I was making some general statements there - not nessecarily directed towards you personally.


Direwolves
American Lions
Saber Toothed Tigers
Short Nosed Bear (3x bigger than Grizzley)
a 300lb Beaver!
Mammoths
Mastadons
etc
etc.

Think about the advancements in child birth over the past 200 years. My grandmother lost 2 during labour living in the middle of nowhere Nova Scotia!


re Clovis: I remember reading that they have only found something like 12 sites where Clovis and any Megafauna examples exist together. Then there's something like 4 where they have clear examples of butchery taking place and these sits are really only 2 (separated by a creek) There are varying opinions on the hunting practises - was it showmanship? Did they simply find the carcus's dead already? Did they hunt the populations in weakened states due to environmental stresses. There's a ton of debate over Clovis's involvement in North America's megafauna extinctions: Some suggesting they are entirely responsible - others that it was environmental and Clovis just happened to appear on the scene around same time.

I don't find it too realistic that small populations of humans attempting (and ultimately failing) to survive in these conditions would willingly go out and kill the biggest baddest mother#ers on the land - when they had a plethora of other safer options available to them. But I'm certainly open to changing my opinion as new evidence is discovered.


The Peace and Love Movement was engineered and manufactured by the CIA. A ton of evidence out there confirming this. Perhaps this is relevant for another thread topic entirely.


The Peratt Column - Personally I find this to be the most difficult to understand in the entire Electric Universe Model. Highly speculative. Incredibly difficult to pin down at any given time period due to its structural instabilities.

One group of people living at this latitude see's this, another at this latitude see's that>

Everytime I try to upload a pic it just opens a new window showing that pic - so just google Peratt Column. Often misinterpreted as a Birkeland Current.





I've come to the realization that Cosmology and Anthromorphism is the answer to 99% of all mysteries. I believe Cro Magnon was drawing celestial events on cave walls - anthromorphicized into stunningly realistic depictions of Aurochs and laughably poor representations of humans hunting them. That all the weird big eyed alien dude rock art are infact plasmamoid displays personified into having human characteristics. That all of the early Kings/Pharoahs are intact planets. That ruled the skies and thus ruled this and that portion of the earth. The Henges/Mounds/Barrows are all literal depictions of objects seen in sky. That in fact the planets were much closer than what they appear to be today. It can account for Giganticism. Glaciation. Macro Evolution. The origins of language. And agriculture. All concepts of art and design and directly taken from the God's - Planets seen orbiting/electrically interacting within our ancient skies.


edit on 20-10-2014 by 131415 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 20 2014 @ 01:59 PM
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a reply to: 131415

One small comment: I would suggest that what may have done in the larger mammals were the people who came from Asia, and who brought with them, by way of their dogs, a virus that destroyed a great percentage of the larger mammals.

However, that is pure speculation.



posted on Oct, 20 2014 @ 02:34 PM
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originally posted by: Hanslune
a reply to: 131415

One small comment: I would suggest that what may have done in the larger mammals were the people who came from Asia, and who brought with them, by way of their dogs, a virus that destroyed a great percentage of the larger mammals.

However, that is pure speculation.


Entirely possible. Admittantly its not a subject I'm an expert in. But how does it account for the Vegetation extinctions? I've read thousands of species of plant life ceased to exist … Some have even speculated Billions of Trees disappear from the geological record in North America … its probably a case that both Enormous Environmental Changes and the introduction of Clovis to dwindling conservations played a role.

What I find most interesting however is that the BIG Grazers (Mammoths, Rhinos, Camels, Elephants etc) that are all here required enormous amounts of vegetation/day to survive. I've heard 300-400lbs for Mammoths! Yet 11k years ago they are in the Arctic Circle. They're in Northern Canada. Places that today consist entirely of tundra - not nearly enough vegetation for them survive.


There are some interesting human fossils in Alaska they've found recently - using the isotopes found in hair signatures to suggest their diets consisted entirely of marine life. (They were making the case for arrival in the America's by boat). But it could be used to suggest that if were living on entirely marine diets on the journey to get here - Why'd we all of a sudden decide to start attacking everything that moved? To think Native's wouldn't be aware enough to know that these species were all ready in big trouble - and that they'd give them no opportunity to rebound. (I think elephants have a 13 month gestation period!). Along time to reintroduce a single offspring into the environment.


Giganticism and the 3 big Megafaunal extinctions experienced in last 50k years are one HUGE problem that today's scientific orthodoxy simply cannot account for.



posted on Oct, 20 2014 @ 04:30 PM
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If u haven't had hellsd or shrooms then u cant really comment without any weight to your story !
Tin foil hat on ! Check !



posted on Oct, 20 2014 @ 06:54 PM
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a reply to: Mianeye

I did a lot of acid in my youth...back when it was common and I can tell you my perception changed for the better in the long run and this is the key to many of these paintings, perception.

Unless the creators of the painting are here now we have no way of perceiving what they were intending to depict in the paintings however music, colour and images are triggers when ones perception has been altered (see: Altered States (1980)...)



posted on Oct, 20 2014 @ 07:36 PM
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originally posted by: olaru12
a reply to: HarryJoy

Please break up that huge wall of text.

And what does that have to do with the topic ?






Hallucinogenic Plants May Be Key to Decoding Ancient Southwestern Paintings



Well I'm sorry about the wall of text...but it helps keep the riff-raff out. Hidden down near the bottom 3rd of the "wall" is a reference to the Tree of Life and the 12 manner of fruit that it bears and how it is implied in the text that it may have some sort of mind altering effect. And the rest of the post deals more with the subject of the artwork derived from the hallucinogenic experience. After all it is answers that we seek and not hallucinogenic experiences.



posted on Oct, 20 2014 @ 07:40 PM
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I've read thousands of species of plant life ceased to exist … Some have even speculated Billions of Trees disappear from the geological record in North America … its probably a case that both Enormous Environmental Changes and the introduction of Clovis to dwindling conservations played a role.



 I haven't put much energy into the floral extinctions, but I do know that two species of tree utterly disappeared from the central/south east US during the YD, even though other species survived .

I've also read s paper about an explosion of berries and ferns in some areas that were woodlands.

 The author was puzzled as ferns and berries usually take over after fires burn an area down.


Here is a little tidbit about large-scale biomass combustion at the YDB.




Buried soils contain large reservoirs of organic carbon at depths that are not typically included in regional and global soil carbon inventories. One such palaeosol, the Brady soil of southwestern Nebraska, USA, is buried under six metres of loess. The Brady soil developed at the land surface on the late-Pleistocene-aged Peoria Loess in a period of warmth and wetness during which dunefields and dust sources across the region were stabilized2, 3. Abrupt climate change in the early Holocene led to increased loess deposition that buried the soil4. Here, we used spectroscopic and isotopic analyses to determine the composition and stability of organic carbon in the Brady soil. We identify high levels of black carbon, indicating extensive biomass burning. In addition, we found intact vascular plant lipids in soil organic matter with radiocarbon ages ranging from 10,500 to 12,400 cal yr BP, indicating decomposition was slowed by rapid burial at the start of the Holocene. We conclude that landscape disturbance caused by abrupt climate change, fire and the loss of vegetative cover contributed to deep carbon sequestration as the soil was quickly buried under accumulating loess. We suggest that terrestrial soil carbon storage in arid and semi-arid environments could undergo landscape-scale shifts in response to rising temperatures, increased fire activity or drought.




www.nature.com...




There are some interesting human fossils in Alaska they've found recently - using the isotopes found in hair signatures to suggest their diets consisted entirely of marine life. (They were making the case for arrival in the America's by boat).




 Even the early Alaskans that came by boat were late comers to the party, as there is plenty of evidence for humans in heart of NA for more than 15k years(human femur [U/T dated] from the pre Clovis midden at the Witt site.)

 

A newly released study of Kennewick man shows that he was born ans raised at high lattitudes and  drank glacial melt water most of his life. There is also evidence, can't remember exactly what it was, that shows he is in fact asiatic.




I dont want to take mianeye's thread any further adrift,

Hanslune's solutrean thread is a great place to discuss Clovis type stuff


www.abovetopsecret.com...

Younger Dryas impact event.

www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Oct, 20 2014 @ 08:23 PM
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Characteristics-for-the-Occurrence-of-a-HighCurrent-ZPinch-Aurora-as-Recorded-in-Antiquity


A lot of stuff - if anything might be helpful to scroll through the photos. One should immediately come to notice that all over the world early humans are drawing the same things. In the same fashion. Using the same design aesthetics.


The only thing I can think of that would lend any credence to this worldwide phenomena being "drug" induced would be Mushrooms - they pretty much grow every/anywhere … though it still seems rather implausible to me that people all over the world are witnessing the same thing while in the same induced state.



posted on Oct, 20 2014 @ 09:07 PM
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originally posted by: 131415
Characteristics-for-the-Occurrence-of-a-HighCurrent-ZPinch-Aurora-as-Recorded-in-Antiquity



A lot of stuff - if anything might be helpful to scroll through the photos. One should immediately come to notice that all over the world early humans are drawing the same things. In the same fashion. Using the same design aesthetics.


The only thing I can think of that would lend any credence to this worldwide phenomena being "drug" induced would be Mushrooms - they pretty much grow every/anywhere … though it still seems rather implausible to me that people all over the world are witnessing the same thing while in the same induced state.


Thanks for the link to the pdf.

I'll peruse through it later, I'm of the opinion that s certain percentage of rock art is based on observation of celestial events. There is ample evidence for such an idea, but rock art spans a tremendous period of time, and the previously mentioned celestial events are discreet happenings.
But from the LGM (approx 25 k years ago) up to the early iron age (approx 6th century bc ) many celestial events can be traced to the break up of the Taurid progenitor comet, of which comet Enke is the surviving nugget.
Tales of dragons and feathered serpents, cosmic battles and cast down and vengeful angels can be traced to meteorite, asteroid and comet encounters.

edit on 20-10-2014 by punkinworks10 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 20 2014 @ 10:30 PM
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originally posted by: punkinworks10

Thanks for the link to the pdf.

I'll peruse through it later, I'm of the opinion that s certain percentage of rock art is based on observation of celestial events. There is ample evidence for such an idea, but rock art spans a tremendous period of time, and the previously mentioned celestial events are discreet happenings.
But from the LGM (approx 25 k years ago) up to the early iron age (approx 6th century bc ) many celestial events can be traced to the break up of the Taurid progenitor comet, of which comet Enke is the surviving nugget.
Tales of dragons and feathered serpents, cosmic battles and cast down and vengeful angels can be traced to meteorite, asteroid and comet encounters.


Never heard of the LGM. I'll look into it.

The Egyptians have 'The Followers of Horus" and the SED Festival + Cattle Counts. Truly absurd numbers for the population size - 1.2 Million Cattle. 130k Prisoners. I think the entire population of Egypt at that time was 350k.

Things get really nutty when you start to apply this method of thinking to Historical Characters and their achievements!

Copyed from Recovering the Lost World -Jno Cook

Gary Gilligan, in An Ancient World in Chaos (2008), has demonstrated that, with very few exceptions, the hundreds of battles that Egypt fought over a 3000-year period, always led by the Pharaoh and always won by the Egyptians, never happened on Earth, but were observed to have happened in the skies. He points out the complete lack of archaeological evidence for any battles. For example, at the Battle of Kadesh in circa 1287 BC, probably the most famous battle of antiquity, 20,000 Egyptians engaged 40,000 Hittites. Yet not one bone or war artifact has been found despite the inscriptions by Rameses II telling of tens of thousands of dead soldiers. Gilligan claims that Kadesh itself also has not been found.

Similarly, notes Gilligan, at Megiddo some 34 battles were fought, including 14 by Tuthmose III. "Yet," Gilligan writes, "no corroboratory archaeological evidence exists." The battles were fought entirely above the Earth.

"To put this into some kind of context, Megiddo is a location where hundreds of thousands of soldiers engaged in numerous battles over a period of 3,000 years -- thousands of chariots, battle axes, spears, bows and arrows, the carnage, dead soldiers, etc, etc, and yet no archaeological evidence remains to corroborate them as ever taking place -- nothing. We have an abundance of written documentation but -- NO CRIME SCENE! This despite the fact that archaeologists have been digging there for decades."




Apologies to anyone if this thread is getting off track. Simply trying to provide a case for the Anthromorphiced Celestial Events witnessed by our ancient ancestors rather then forced requirements for them to be "out of touch with reality". The process evolves over time. What was once simply a Flying Horse - Becomes a Guy living in City of Clouds hurling lightning bolts.


edit on 20-10-2014 by 131415 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 20 2014 @ 10:59 PM
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originally posted by: Char-Lee
a reply to: Shiloh7




Its today with things like the church blocking the use of drugs incase someone decides to leave its fold as they can access a closer relationship with God via that experience, rather than no relationship just a token one through the priest.


If a person with unbiased eyes looks at the people who use such...shamans in tribal situations or anyone else it is clear that it does not cause a good outcome.

Watching the old black and whites of anthropologist trips into the backcountry you see these sorry drugged out groups of men sitting and doing zero for anyone. The same is true today...relationship with God...I don't think so, a person with a relationship with God is highly productive and you can see and feel the outcome of that relationship.

Hallucinatory drugs makes people stop living and live in a dream world. It hurts their families and takes them away from everyone.


If we were allowed to talk freely here I could explain how it is the exact opposite



posted on Oct, 20 2014 @ 11:28 PM
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a reply to: 131415

LGM is last glacial maximum.
YD is younger Dryas



posted on Oct, 27 2014 @ 11:37 AM
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I have no doubt that the ancients at Chaco Canyon saw or did something to bring about the second picture. I have spent many days in the Canyon doing research as an amateur archeologist. At night we did a little research as well. Usually with the typical Budweiser type mind expanders. However, one cold night, all alone, I intentionally stayed on the trail after dark, on my way to the, "Super Nova Site". Let me tell you sitting all alone in the desert is more than a little spooky. Sitting under the petroglyphs l lit up a, well typical mind expander for the area, I could really get into the spirit of the area that night. Cold, super quite, I have never been so alone, yet the spirit world was all around me. I feel like for just a few short minutes that I pierced the vale that separates us from the world we know to the reality of the Shaman. That was seventeen years ago, and to this day Chaco calls to me each and ever year in late fall.



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