New Michael Brown Evidence Reported by NY Times

a reply to: feldercarb

There is no solution to any single problem. Things are all interconnected. You cant fix the schools without fixing poverty and racism and a dozen other factors. I work in a homogenous top of the line affluent white town.

The schools here aren't much better even if they are more peaceful and get kids into better colleges. The kids are terrible at critical thinking and exploring things in their own because they see school as a means to an end and are obsessed with pleasure seeking, materialism, and status games.

There is no easy answer because everyone has their own things. My town is pretty nice compared to most places but is still filled with tons of hatred jealousy, corruption, and such. We have to convince people to be more selfless and to care about others more than themselves.

If every person on earth cared about themselves least everyone would be happy. I'm proposing what every religion in history has proposed. Compassion, charity, love. If the Michael Brown supporters were less concerned about their plight and the Darren Wilson supporters were less concerned about theirs there would be no issue. It would just be a tragedy and a lesson instead of a point of division.

Sadly there's no easy answer. We all have to individually aim for this goal and convince others to do the same. It's absolutely monumentally and insanely difficult to the point of near impossibility but isn't America all about achieving the impossible?

Am I making sense or is my lack of an easy concrete solution invalidating my points?

a reply to: feldercarb

So still nothing on whether there was gun shot residue on brown?
If he was still engaged with brown after he shot him and go his blood on his hand from the gun shot and the used both hands to handle the gun, then yes there would be blood on the gun.

This does nothing to show the scuffle happened the way the officer said, it goes to both sides as johnson said he was shot once at the car as well.

a reply to: Sremmos80

Lack of gun residue does not mean the individual was not around a gun. It can also mean there was something in between the person when the gun discharged, blocking the transfer.

a reply to: tavi45

Again you made no proposal to fix the system. And you suggest that you have white guilt when you say " I work in a homogenous top of the line affluent white town" You are giving a great speech while proposing nothing. And the problem when you keep bring up racism and oppression is that they have become a self fulfilling prophecy. Certain members of the black society have come to the point that they believe that they cannot change and that everyone else is the problem Things cannot get better until they accept that they are going to have to leave the oppression and racism monikers behind and join the rest of the United States of America society.

Do you want some more suggestions.

1) For the federal and state a progressive tax with no deductions, no exemptions, no loopholes including charitable donations. At the bottom the poor and the welfare people start at 0.1% and the upper limit would be 20%. Everybody pays taxes. Hopefully, within a few years of paying down the debt, the top end of the tax rate could fall to 12%. Your tax return would be of all three lines. Line 1 would be the total of all wages, salaries, dividends and interest you have received in a given year. Line 2 you would find the % tax rate your total income would require. Line 3 is the total of Multiplying Line 1 by Line 2. You pay that amount. And you would pay that amount sometime between Feb and April. NO ESTIMATE TAX. Suddenly, Mitt Romney would have to pay a bigger % of his income than his secretary.

2) For stocks and commodities there would be no capital gains tax. For each stock or commodity transaction take the individual stock or commodity unit and subtract the purchase price from the selling price when each sale occurs. No amoritization is allowed. The tax rate would be a flat 25%. Wall Street would crash and all the financial advisors would jump out their respective windows but speculation would end.

3) Corporate tax would be the same as individual but but start at 5.1% for domestic firms and 10.1% for foreign owned. Note no depreciation, no nothing. The gross sales times by the you tax rate percentage equals you tax bill.

4) Non profit status only goes to all volunteer agencies. That means that the agency must be staffed only by volunteers. No one gets paid to work at a non profit company, agency, etc. All financial transaction must be TOTALLY transparent. Everyone should know how every penny was spent by a Non profit organization. That includes all religious institutions too. Even Chesterfield MO government has said that the municipality is being squeezed because of the lack of property tax supplied by the non profit nursing homes. In St. Louis the big land grabbers are Saint Louis University and Washington University because they are non profit and don't have to pay property taxes. No wonder the city is hurting. Also churchs, synogagues, mosques etc. do not pay any property tax. Realize that the Red Cross initially said that how they spent money on Hurrican Sandy relief efforts was a "trade secret". And the leader of the Red Cross makes at least a half a million dollars per year salary.

Okay, your turn to come up with some ideas.

a reply to: Xcathdra

But the narrative here is that the gun was fired during the fight for the gun, how could his hand not get it on at that point?
I will agree there is a chance, but his hand next to the gun in an enclosed space? Seems like that would be hard to do.

Its a shame that the grand jury only gets to hear one side of the two parties engaged.
Wilsons word v a dead guys.
Just don't see how a guy that when confronted by a man much smaller then him all he does is push him away but then when confronted by a cop he goes for the gun? Doesn't make sense to me.
And yes that is just me speculating.

a reply to: Sremmos80

From a quote of an articles presented by nrd101, I have some real doubts about the second autopsy performed by Dr. Baden. In the quote it said that Dr. Baden reviewed the pre-embalming pictures of Michael Brown's body. That suggest to me that Dr. Baden did not perform his autopsy until after the body had been embalmed. If that is so, then I suspect that the body had been washed before embalming and thus before Dr. Baden performed his test for gun shoot residue. From what I have read about Shawn Parcells and the quote about the pre-embalming photos, I feel that the lawyer for the family really botched the management of the 2nd autopsy. I doubt he could defend it in court against any decent lawyer. Too many questions about procedures and Shawn Parcells' lack of credentials and training.

I would not be surprised if the first autopsy give totally different results.

a reply to: Sremmos80

because brute intimidation worked in the store and did not work with the officer.

If I remember right you have a background in law enforcement (correct me if I am wrong). A person who is shot does not have to close to physical contact in order for blood to transfer. You clip an artery and you will get arterial spray. If the suspect reacts to being shot and moves to grab that wound with his other hand, then bringing it back up as the other shots hit you can have transfer that way as well.

Did the officer secure brown while he was on the ground? Blood transfer can occur that way as well.

As for GSR a suspect could be firing the gun while the officers hands are over the gun trying to gain control. The bulk o GSR will be on the officers hands and not the suspect.

When was the GSR test done on brown?


nothing is absolute and I am not making claims. Merely pointing out its not as black and white as people think.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Not sure where you got that I had LEO experience, or if you are just being sarcastic but that is usually not your post style, to take jabs like that. But no I do not have the experience you speak of.
And my point was that brown went from 0 to 100 in the fact of how he decided to deal with 2 separate people.
From a push and some intimidation, to trying to take an officers firearm, just doesn't makes sense to me.

I would agree with you that a person does not need to be close for blood to get on the gun, which is why I don't think this article does anything to push the story either way.

I guess we need to see the holster, cause the way I see it if it was still in there when the shot was fired then no gsr would make more sense, but there would be a hole in it. But if the narrative of shot fired during the fight for the gun, I don't see how there could not be.
And felder, I am not saying the second autopsy is the tell all, just was asking if there was any more info on that aspect ,cause yes if they body was washed then it could have been washed off

a reply to: Sremmos80

And felder, I am not saying the second autopsy is the tell all, just was asking if there was any more info on that aspect ,cause yes if they body was washed then it could have been washed off

Sorry if I made you feel that you were taking the second autopsy as the end all be all. I was merely pointing out information that was new to me that suggest more possible irregularities with the second autopsy. Nothing has been released from either the first or the third autopsy. Thus, the public is at square one in regards to the gun shoot residue results.

a reply to: feldercarb

The main problem with the system is the worship of money and the self. You can change the tax system and it will help but what does that do to help fix the gigantic racial issues of our country or the warmongering or the disproportionate power of the wealthy. If you make the big bucks you can always manipulate things. Money = power in a society which revolves around money.

I'm sorry I don't have a very simple solution to all the world's ills. Frankly we've tried almost every system out there so far throughout history and they have all failed. The difference between now and the past is we have the technology to fulfill just about every basic human necessity right now and we choose to tie everything to wealth.

There is no profit in feeding everyone on the planet. If supply becomes limitless and demand zero then how can a profit and debt driven system function.

We have to move past looking out for oneself or ones nation and look out for humanity. Sorry if my wishy washy new age BS isn't appealing to your hyper rational concrete ideals but it's the only way forward.

For instance if the protestors and police in Ferguson had just a handful of people interested in actually fixing things rather than refusing to compromise at all they could actually make headway.

But just like with everything else, everyone is concerned with their side winning. When both sides refuse to compromise or forgive no one wins. You see these same binary tribal instincts playing out in Congress. You see them pretty much everywhere.

Change starts with you.

a reply to: hogstooth

Let's see ... *checks actual reality*

Average height of a patrol car window: 3.5 feet.

300 lb six foot four inch tall guy leaning downward and angling his body to align with a 3.5 foot tall window ...

force of gravity on 300 lb man pointing his upper body at and through the window ... acting with a force of 1283 N to pull Brown through the window ...

Yeah, WIlson must have been as strong as Steve Austin to pull Brown into the car ... gravity would have no effect ...

NOT.

originally posted by: tavi45
You guys all miss the point. This really had nothing to do with Michael Brown. It's about the never ending cycle of oppression of black people. It's no wonder the white people are nicer. They aren't raised amid poverty and violence.

So you are saying only black people are "raised amid poverty and volence"

Because if you are, then you are very narrow minded. And playing the 'whites have it easy' card, you are actually helping create the divide.

Or, you are totally trolling.

a reply to: Justaposter

Whites dont all have it easy. They have it easier than blacks though. There is no divide to create. It's a giant fissure that's existed for centuries. I'm sorry you think I'm insulting white people but that's your defensiveness at play. I know tons of hardworking decent white people. I know decent hardworking people of every race. It's definitely an extra difficulty being black.

Are you automatically a failure just for being born with black skin? Of course not. Are you automatically a success just for being born with white skin? Of course not. Are there added burdens being born black rather than white? Most definitely.

The evidence is everywhere. You can't tell me racism is dead when I have heard and seen it my entire life. If you're feeling guilty or defensive maybe it's a personal issue. Actually it definitely is as no one can FORCE you to feel guilty. Guilt can't be forced on someone. It comes from inside. That's why serial killers never feel guilty no matter how much you try to make them feel guilty. They lack the empathy for it. I feel no guilt at all. I do feel it's a problem that needs to be addressed.

If you can't see my point it's cool. Far more intelligent and well spoken individuals than I have tried to get it across and failed. It's very very hard to break through the walls in people's heads. It's much easier to bunker behind impenetable defenses than to risk letting alternative viewpoints in that may cause pain.

originally posted by: feldercarb

The forensics tests showed Mr. Brown’s blood on the gun, as well as on the interior door panel and on Officer Wilson’s uniform.

Wouldn't this also be in favor of Brown and the testimony given by others that he was pulled in the window and Wilson pulled his gun out and shot him while struggling through the window???

Why is this being reported as being in favor of Wilson's story when it also gives credibility to the accounts in favor of Brown??

a reply to: tavi45

Everything you say is true but you still have yet to offer one suggestion to fix the problem. Also, your assertions of racism and oppression are now part of the problem. This segment of the black population now see most everything as oppression and racism. They have become very racist. Telling this segment that they are being oppressed only adds to the problem.

Think of it this way. On the pH scale neutral is 7. Less than 7 you have an acid. More than 7 you have a base. For years we had a very acidic situation. So the standard procedure to add a base was beneficial. Now the situation has become slightly basic. You can't add more base to the mixture and hope to make the situation become neutral. Adding base is now a obsolete method. We need to find a little weak acid and add it in a small amount. Tell me what is the method that equals a weak acid that can be used in this situation.

To be honest with everyone, I don't think that it matters what new evidence comes forth and changes the story anymore. Because the kid was given a death sentence for stealing. It didn't matter if he put up a fight, or didn't put up a fight... The bottom line is that the kid committed a minor crime, and was given death for it.

The thing is, what's going on in St. Louis isn't even about this case anymore. They can say it is all they want, but it's not. It's about the deep rooted racism in St. Louis. www.bbc.com... says that a study was done, and St. Louis is still one of the most segregated cities in the U.S. The people there could change it. But they aren't actually doing it. The white people feel as though they've done nothing wrong, and the black people want white people to own up to the fact that white privilege is still alive and well. No amount of evidence saying that the cop was in the right, or that the cop was in the wrong is going to change the bottom line problem in this city.


The way I see it, is that all these people just need to let it go. And they need to go home. They are making fools of themselves. Making themselves look really bad. It's not the image they were aiming for, I'm sure. I feel for both sides. I do. Maybe if these people who feel underprivileged went out and did something with their lives aside from gangbanging, maybe things would be different. I know that sounds bad, but it's true. I've heard that parts of St. Louis are really the 'ghetto.' Get out of the ghetto, stop acting like a 'thug' and do something with your lives, and watch your image change. Watch how privileged you feel when you can afford nice things and you aren't running on the streets. The people they accuse of having 'white privilege' WORK HARD, and therefore are not seen as a threat. They aren't running the streets. White privilege does not exist. Privilege does however. You do good things, and your image, worth, and privilege changes. But, people are a product of society. And very few people want to work hard and break the molds. You even see it on the Indian Reservations. The people feel stuck, and underprivileged so they don't do anything. Nothing changes. And I feel for the white people in St. Louis because that cop felt like he did the right thing. He's probably going to be haunted for a long time because he killed a kid. The white people outside of the cop and his family probably feel really bitter. They did nothing wrong, but are being punished. And by punished, I mean threatened, scared to leave their homes, and the like.


I don't think any amount of evidence that supports either side will change the problem in St. Louis. Because it stems farther than just the Michael Brown case now. I do know that I understand the viewpoints of each side. But I also think both sides are at fault. I refuse to admit that 'white privilege' exists, and I refuse to treat anyone like royalty because of something that my ancestors may or may not have done. Which is exactly what the people of St. Louis want. They are tired of being on the 'bottom', so they want to be on top.

a reply to: Lyxdeslic

Your third sentence is untrue. He did not receive a death sentence for stealing. He committed at least strong armed robbery which is a felony. Second, if he assaulted the police officer he committed a second felony. Thus, he did not commit one minor crime but potentially two major violent crimes. Michael Brown appears to have been an angry young man. This becoming more and more of a problem within our society.

The rest of your statements are true.

originally posted by: feldercarb
a reply to: Lyxdeslic

Your third sentence is untrue. He did not receive a death sentence for stealing. He committed at least strong armed robbery which is a felony. Second, if he assaulted the police officer he committed a second felony. Thus, he did not commit one minor crime but potentially two major violent crimes. Michael Brown appears to have been an angry young man. This becoming more and more of a problem within our society.

The rest of your statements are true.

The sentencing for strong armed robbery is 1-20 years in jail. Not death. www.avvo.com...

the sentencing in most states for assaulting a cop is 5-25 years in jail, again, not death. www.criminaldefenselawyer.com...

And even so, it isn't known for sure what REALLY happened, as we've learned that the 'witnesses' are unreliable. And 'evidence' seems to contradict itself. I'm not saying this kid is not in the wrong, because he was. He should have been taught better, at the least to respect authority figures. But the cop could have better understood the situation. I mean... They are trained to not shoot unless absolutely necessary.

With evidence that contradicts other evidence, and witnesses who are unreliable, the only thing we know for certain is that Michael Brown was a potential suspect for a strong armed robbery, and he was shot repeatedly.

a reply to: tavi45

I guess someone forgot to tell you this, but blacks are not oppressed. If anything, they have more privilege than many whites in this country! Affirmative action? Yep, for blacks only. BET? Yep, for blacks only. NCAA schooling and scholarships? Yep, for blacks only.

Instead of blaming others for their own mistakes, and expecting everyone else to do the hard work for them, why doesn't the black community start looking at their own issues and realize it's THEIR problem? Last time I checked, whites didn't force black kids to be gangsters. Last time I checked, whites didn't invent gangster rap. Last time I checked, whites didn't force the idiotic "gang culture" on blacks either. This is something the AA community needs to address. They want less black kids shot by police? Than start taking care of them and start to demonize the inane gang culture which runs so prevalent in the black community!

originally posted by: FirePiston
He was a good kid!
Fire

Unfortunately, that's the mind set of many.

a reply to: tavi45

It wasn't a dollar blunt.
It was a $50 dollar box of blunts. He also gave his accomplice a $50 box of blunts but he cowered out and put the box back when Michael wasn't looking.

I'm not saying michaels life was worth $50. I'm saying you should speak in truth