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an argument against giving beggars money

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posted on Oct, 16 2014 @ 02:29 PM
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Let's say you give a beggar one dollar. You got that dollar from your employer for doing some work. The dollar he gave you he cannot give to anyone else. He could have given someone else that dollar in exchange for work but decided to give it to you.

Now if you give that dollar to a beggar, that potential other employee is not able to get it. That potential employee could be the beggar.

By giving money to beggars you actually contribute to maintaining unemployment and competition for jobs at a high level, and thus making it harder for said beggar to get a job.

I'd appreciate if anyone could dissect this argument and/or argue against it.

Do you give money to beggars? Why/why not?

In my country there are a lot of Gypsies who are beggars, most beggars are Gypsies in my country. A lot of people don't want to give them money because they think they are not sincere. That's a whole other discussion though.
edit on 321031Thu, 16 Oct 2014 14:32:10 -0500201410pAmerica/Chicago2014-10-16T14:32:10-05:0031 by introspectionist because: (no reason given)



+23 more 
posted on Oct, 16 2014 @ 02:36 PM
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a reply to: introspectionist
The fact you use the term "beggar" says a lot about you and your argument. I give to Charities (beggars?) and people on the street. I give things away and do things for free.

Money is not my leader, god or way of Life. My least favorite word is "money".



posted on Oct, 16 2014 @ 02:36 PM
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originally posted by: introspectionist
Let's say you give a beggar one dollar. You got that dollar from your employer for doing some work. The dollar he gave you he cannot give to anyone else. He could have given someone else that dollar in exchange for work but decided to give it to you.

Now if you give that dollar to a beggar, that potential other employee is not able to get it. That potential employee could be the beggar.


The question is flawed from the start...you only have one theoretical dollar from start (employer) to finish (beggar). You seem as if you're implying if that dollar did not go from employer to you to beggar, that dollar could be used to hire someone else. That is nonsense, because if that dollar went to hire somone else, it wouldn't be going to you and you would become said beggar.

But to answer your question, my giving, either to charities or beggars, is a case-by-case basis. Too often here where I live, people have chosen to make begging on interstate offramps their main source of income, and from what I hear, one can make a good living off of it. So, that has stopped me from giving cash, but I often give food and other items that help someone survive, rather than cash.
edit on 16-10-2014 by SlapMonkey because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 16 2014 @ 02:37 PM
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a reply to: introspectionist

but the dollar you give the beggar is going to someone else, potentially another employee somewhere else?

maybe a fast food place or liquor store , maybe gas station for smokes?



posted on Oct, 16 2014 @ 02:41 PM
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a reply to: ugmold



beg·gar/ˈbeɡər/
noun
1. a person, typically a homeless one, who lives by asking for money or food.


Source
What it says is that the OP knows what words mean. Just because you may see it as 'politically incorrect' doesn't mean he can't or shouldn't use it in asking his question.



posted on Oct, 16 2014 @ 02:42 PM
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a reply to: introspectionist

We gypsies love you working people. ;p

Money never vanishes (unless someone does something senseless with it). If you give the beggar a dollar, he spends it on food and booze, so the demand for those items rises. As demand rises, prices rise, and more manufacturers get into business creating more jobs.

The way to destroy an economy is to stockpile money. Spending/giving it away is never harmful ultimately, although it can be wasteful and counterproductive for your own personal life.

If you are giving away more than you can afford to give to the point that your own family is no longer able to optimize their own talents and goals into reality, then you are diminishing the total amount of luminosity in the world, casting the rest of us into darkness; however, if you have excess and the person you give to is then empowered and encouraged to dance and sing for the people of the world, increasing happiness then we are all the better off for it.

How many hopeless drunks lost to the winds of wandering have been turned around by charity to rejoin society as productive peoples? It is stories of overcoming like those which keep me cheering for humankind. If the worst among us can improve upon themselves incrementally, over time we can become an Aurelian standard shining in the darkness for all to behold.

I would not want to live in a world without gypsies. Such a world would have no soul.



posted on Oct, 16 2014 @ 02:43 PM
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Hmm, I donate to Goodwill often. So often that I can move everything I own in a pickup truck.

However, I do not give money to people on the street. It's been proven, in my area, that there are people who just don't want to work and actually hit the streets to beg. I prefer to donate to the local homeless shelter. That way I know what the money is buying.

Edit to add that I disagree with the OP's argument. The dollar will go to the person who most needs it.
edit on 10/16/2014 by Restricted because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 16 2014 @ 02:48 PM
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I give to those in need because in life I would prefer to ere on the side of kindness.



posted on Oct, 16 2014 @ 02:50 PM
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a reply to: introspectionist

I only give money to people in genuine need....there's a difference between helping support someone who is just short a buck for lunch and someone who has made an entire industry out of the practice.


ETA: I was homeless/houseless for several years myself and made my daily dime through music/street performace and there is a staggering difference between the con-artists and Those In Need. Never assume you know which is which, giving the benefit of the doubt is always a wise protocol unless you KNOW the person in question.

I will never forsake a genuine Human Being who is down on his or her luck if I have cash to spare. I've been there...sometimes pocket change can make or break one's day. Even if I'm completely broke, I at least offer a genuine smile and words of encouragement. Hopefully someone else will pay it forward on the days where I cannot.




edit on 10/16/14 by GENERAL EYES because: ETA



posted on Oct, 16 2014 @ 02:52 PM
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a reply to: introspectionist

Its say in the Qur'an that one should not beg if he has food for a day and night.



posted on Oct, 16 2014 @ 02:52 PM
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Moot................
People NEED PEOPLE....
Go fly a kite



posted on Oct, 16 2014 @ 02:55 PM
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Just count your lucky stars you don't have to beg.

This economy is tough. Lots of good people are down and out.

Frankly, that's a horrible attitude in my opinion.

Best of Luck



posted on Oct, 16 2014 @ 02:57 PM
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a reply to: introspectionist

My interaction with the world is based on the concrete: the man in front of me. Not the abstract (i.e., worrying about how the system will be affected by me giving away what I earned).

"Its for his own good" is among the most vile concepts that a society can concoct.



posted on Oct, 16 2014 @ 03:00 PM
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originally posted by: ugmold
a reply to: introspectionist
The fact you use the term "beggar" says a lot about you and your argument. I give to Charities (beggars?) and people on the street. I give things away and do things for free.

Money is not my leader, god or way of Life. My least favorite word is "money".
No, English is not my first language.



posted on Oct, 16 2014 @ 03:01 PM
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a reply to: GENERAL EYES


I only give money to people in genuine need….there's a difference between helping support someone who is just short a buck for lunch and someone who has made an entire industry out of the practice.

You mean like politicians "soliciting" "donations" with thousand dollar a plate dinners?

If its rich people its soliciting, if its poor people its begging.

Poor people who beg are in genuine need. Or you think they take time off work to hang out in front of 7-11 to make some extra cash?



posted on Oct, 16 2014 @ 03:02 PM
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a reply to: introspectionist

I don't know about where you are from but where I'm from, the "beggers" don't eat the money you give them, taking it out of circulation. No, where I come from, they inject it back into the economy just like you would have.

In fact, the poorer a person is, the faster their currency will be reinvested into the economy. If anybody breaks that chain, it's the wealthy who take their money off the economic plate and either hordes it or invests it in things that do not benefit the economy.



posted on Oct, 16 2014 @ 03:07 PM
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Lets follow the logic through. Employer can choose between You or someone else to give the $1 and it is assumed they have an infinite source of these. The employer chooses you, so now someone else has become a beggar. Now that you have the dollar, you are in the position of the employer. You have a choice to give that $1 to someone else, or to a beggar. No matter what choice you make, you have now made yourself a beggar because you no longer have the dollar. No matter what choice any of them make, there are always two beggars in the equation: If you get the money, your rival is now a beggar, as well as the beggar you have the option of giving it to. If your rival gets the money, you are now the beggar as well as the other beggar who he now has the option of giving it to. No matter what option is chosen, there are always an equal number of beggars around the $1 in question.

SO... it is assumed that if a dollar is given to a beggar, then that is where the $1 ends in it's journey and we can assume this contributes to unemployment, as the person who receives the dollar will not need to look for a job. This is the defining X factor. Would that beggar then give that money to someone else, or would it end with them? The assumption of this logic is that it would be the latter. This scenario is too limited in that it doesn't factor in frequency of payments, realistic amounts of money, or willpower of an individual to find a job. It's an extremely confined logic that only allows for one result no matter what happens.



posted on Oct, 16 2014 @ 03:11 PM
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a reply to: intrptr

Please re-read my first post - there's an ETA.

And no, for the record - when I donate it goes to local charities and directly to the hands of people I look in the eye with a smile and a warm hug if they're receptive to it. I've been in that position before and Genuine Human Kindness is needed in a serious scale in this otherwise cold and impersonal world.

I've never attended a "charity function" in my life. I'm sub-poverty myself.

*Sheesh! What with all these sudden assumptions and misconceptions about my individual financial status? TALK ABOUT WEIRD! *

Hi. Nice ta meetcha. I'm GE and I'm broke as a skunk most of the damn time.




edit on 10/16/14 by GENERAL EYES because: spelling errors, grammar edits



posted on Oct, 16 2014 @ 03:14 PM
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a reply to: GENERAL EYES

I noticed you edited your post after I responded to it. I won't try that again, changeling.



posted on Oct, 16 2014 @ 03:15 PM
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a reply to: intrptr

Sometimes I have brainfarts after I hit "post". No worries, man - it's all good.

*back to the topic at hand*





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